Clonkeen College - Land sell off

helimachoptor

Looks like some of the land will be sold out, assuming for houses/apartments

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2017/0518/876250-school-sale/

Public meeting tonight

RosieJoe

More news on this here

Needs Must

Selling of land for residential purposes is a consequence of the upturn in property prices. Only recently RTE put a portion of it's Montrose site up for sale. Looking likely that flats will be built in an effort to maximise return. Similar scenario here I would guess.

Seaswimmer

My old Alma Mater..............

I think with the chronic shortage of housing it is a little bit of a luxury to hold on to land that effectively is under utilised. I could understand the anger and opposition if it was a public park or public green space but these pitches are only used for small periods of time and only by pupils in the school.

There are council owned Gaelic and soccer pitches within a few hundred metres which could be used for training/matches.

On a slightly different point there are a huge amount of 4 bedroom homes in the immediate area with one or 2 elderly people in them. An imaginative scheme in Clonkeen College which provides a number of high quality 2/3 bedroom apartments/bungalows/townhouses marketed locally to this demographic may yield up some of these homes.

Seve OB

Seaswimmer wrote: »

My old Alma Mater..............

Mine too

I might buy one

helimachoptor

Seaswimmer wrote: »

My old Alma Mater..............

I think with the chronic shortage of housing it is a little bit of a luxury to hold on to land that effectively is under utilised. I could understand the anger and opposition if it was a public park or public green space but these pitches are only used for small periods of time and only by pupils in the school.

There are council owned Gaelic and soccer pitches within a few hundred metres which could be used for training/matches.

On a slightly different point there are a huge amount of 4 bedroom homes in the immediate area with one or 2 elderly people in them. An imaginative scheme in Clonkeen College which provides a number of high quality 2/3 bedroom apartments/bungalows/townhouses marketed locally to this demographic may yield up some of these homes.

Im split on it tbh, I live on clonkeen road, if i ever have a boy he'd likely go there, so i would prefer it stay as is, but they will still retain a lot of land, though it will be overlooked by blocks of apartments, assume these would be 3/4 stories high based on the school height.

Not sure how many apartments will go up, but no doubt it will bring increased traffic to the area around rush hour.

Seaswimmer

helimachoptor wrote: »

Im split on it tbh, I live on clonkeen road, if i ever have a boy he'd likely go there, so i would prefer it stay as is, but they will still retain a lot of land, though it will be overlooked by blocks of apartments, assume these would be 3/4 stories high based on the school height.

Not sure how many apartments will go up, but no doubt it will bring increased traffic to the area around rush hour.

Yes. Will be interesting to see where the access will be.

I think Dun Laoghaire Golf Club is a good example of what can be achieved in modern developments although I accept that it is a much larger area than Clonkeen.

Seve OB

https://www.change.org/p/taylor-cook-save-clonkeen-college-s-football-pitches

schemingbohemia

Well if the CBs had actually stumped up the money they owed for facilitating kiddy fiddlers move around the country a few years ago this wouldn't have to happen.

helimachoptor

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Well if the CBs had actually stumped up the money they owed for facilitating kiddy fiddlers move around the country a few years ago this wouldn't have to happen.

This is what it comes down to, they owe money for what happened, Oatlands college looks like it has a lot of space, however the rest of their schools after looking through the ones in Dublin on google dont have a lot unless you want to remove any green areas.

With their 3.5 acres CC probably still have more than a lot of the other dublin schools on the Rice list, and with the council pitches across the road i'd say it was an easy choice

wowy

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Well if the CBs had actually stumped up the money they owed for facilitating kiddy fiddlers move around the country a few years ago this wouldn't have to happen.

Public insist the CBs sell land to settle their liability to the state. CBs decide to sell land they have that is valuable and developable (this land has residential zoning and importantly development access which a lot of their other lands adjacent to schools won't) and people give out. The CBs are damned if they do, damned if they don't....

mailforkev

I went there too and am still in the area. I think half the local anger is the underhand way that the CBs did the deal with Durkan without even the school themselves knowing anything about it.

I hear the meeting the other night was one step away from pitchforks and flames.

I reckon whoever owns Texaco is hoping they get PP anyway, nice payday on the cards if they want to knock it for access. Is probably the best spot for it.

Larbre34

mailforkev wrote: »

I reckon whoever owns Texaco is hoping they get PP anyway, nice payday on the cards if they want to knock it for access. Is probably the best spot for it.

I dont agree. Half way down Monaloe Park Road there is a currently pointless cul-de-sac which only needs a wall knocking down to get into the playing pitches. Someone was thinking ahead many years ago! Was it once a back gate into the school or something?

Im sure the people of Monaloe Park Road mightnt like that, but theres plenty of precedent, for instance the recent row over rear access to the Oatlands College plot from Cherrygarth

mailforkev

Larbre34 wrote: »

I dont agree. Half way down Monaloe Park Road there is a currently pointless cul-de-sac which only needs a wall knocking down to get into the playing pitches. Someone was thinking ahead many years ago! Was it once a back gate into the school or something?

Im sure the people of Monaloe Park Road mightnt like that, but theres plenty of precedent, for instance the recent row over rear access to the Oatlands College plot from Cherrygarth

I used to hop over that wall to school occasionally. It was never anything but a wall. There's a little stream behind it.

Monaloe couldn't take the increased volume of traffic in my opinion, it's narrow and already overcrowded with cars parked on the road. Also, it's a bit of an awkward route to access the site.

Is the brother's house still beside the school? If so perhaps that could be knocked.

I think main access directly from Clonkeen Road would be much preferable to the developers though.

Boca

I believe the CBs are expecting €18m for the land - €10m to the redress board, €1m to the school, leaving them €7m to add to their cash reserves
They don't need to sell this land, 

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I think with the chronic shortage of housing it is a little bit of a luxury to hold on to land that effectively is under utilised. I could understand the anger and opposition if it was a public park or public green space but these pitches are only used for small periods of time and only by pupils in the school.

There are council owned Gaelic and soccer pitches within a few hundred metres which could be used for training/matches.

Not true, a substantial amount of money (some public, some raised by parents) has been invested in leveling and draining the playing fields.  Plenty of local clubs actively use them

Seve OB

Boca wrote: »

Not true, a substantial amount of money (some public, some raised by parents) has been invested in leveling and draining the playing fields. ?Plenty of local clubs actively use them

500k+ I believe

spillit67

helimachoptor wrote: »

This is what it comes down to, they owe money for what happened, Oatlands college looks like it has a lot of space, however the rest of their schools after looking through the ones in Dublin on google dont have a lot unless you want to remove any green areas.

With their 3.5 acres CC probably still have more than a lot of the other dublin schools on the Rice list, and with the council pitches across the road i'd say it was an easy choice

In 2010 the Edmund Rice Schools Trust did an evaluation of their lands.

CBC Monkstown and St Fintans Sutton were found to have the most valuable lands. Given that the Brothers are trying to get €18m now for Clonkeen I suspect they would be worth an awful lot more than that now, particularly Monkstown, but they're not able to sell Monkstown.

Boca

... they're not able to sell Monkstown.

Out of interest, why?

spillit67

Boca wrote: »

... they're not able to sell Monkstown.

Out of interest, why?

They need to change the use of the lands and that requires Council approval.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/brothers-seek-land-sale-to-fund-redress-1.1134795

Stephen15

mailforkev wrote: »

I used to hop over that wall to school occasionally. It was never anything but a wall. There's a little stream behind it.

Monaloe couldn't take the increased volume of traffic in my opinion, it's narrow and already overcrowded with cars parked on the road. Also, it's a bit of an awkward route to access the site.

Is the brother's house still beside the school? If so perhaps that could be knocked.

I think main access directly from Clonkeen Road would be much preferable to the developers though.

Its now the ERST HQ which has also been bought by the developer afaik so that will most likely be used for access.

Gareth Keenan

Boca wrote: »

... they're not able to sell Monkstown.

Out of interest, why?

spillit67 wrote: »

They need to change the use of the lands and that requires Council approval.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/brothers-seek-land-sale-to-fund-redress-1.1134795

a parent there told me that they did try to sell off the back pitch (1 of 3 there) a few years back. But as you say, it would need a change of use which does seem pretty unlikely to be granted.

spillit67

Gareth Keenan wrote: »

a parent there told me that they did try to sell off the back pitch (1 of 3 there) a few years back. But as you say, it would need a change of use which does seem pretty unlikely to be granted.

Yes that's what the article states.

It will be granted when the school wants it....wait a few years when the Brothers are out of the picture completely and I can see it happening. It's a long strip of land that used to be a second entrance to the school. It's too narrow to be a proper functioning rugby pitch.

spillit67

The Council looked to have failed in their bid to block the sale.

Mr Devlin said that should the councillors succeed in their bid to create a mid-term variation of the development plan, it could halt development on some 95 of the 103 schools in the council area which are on, or surrounded, by residentially zoned land.

How many have highly restricted zoning like CBC do is up in the air, I'd expect if any Orders are going to sell they will try and squeeze it through in the next few months.

Fratton Fred

it makes sense to me for them to just hand over the schools to the state and the state lets them off any additional monies they owe.

astrofool

How these lands got zoned residential in the first place is the issue, they'd not have been worth selling otherwise.

Also, why they would spend so much on levelling/draining the fields without legally having ownership in place is stupid.

petronius

It is a scandal that school land in Clonkeen College and st. paul's, raheny were sold off by their owners - i can guarantee it wont be used for social housing - but developed for a large profit.
School land should be just that school land, or sporting and educational use - not a cash bank - any land transfer should be only allowed by dept. approval with community consultation.

ted1

petronius wrote: »

It is a scandal that school land in Clonkeen College and st. paul's, raheny were sold off by their owners - i can guarantee it wont be used for social housing - but developed for a large profit.
School land should be just that school land, or sporting and educational use - not a cash bank - any land transfer should be only allowed by dept. approval with community consultation.

Was it not should of off to pay for redress? Plenty saying that it’s a scandal it all hadn’t being paid. Damned if they dammed if they don’t

Cookie_Monster

ted1 wrote: »

Was it not should of off to pay for redress?

schools shouldn't have to pay the price for that. sell off churches / church lands to pay for their crimes.

ted1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Was it not should of off to pay for redress?

schools shouldn't have to pay the price for that. sell off churches / church lands to pay for their crimes.

Isn’t the land in question church land.
In my opinion It shouldn’t have been rezoned.

Boca

ted1 wrote: »

Isn’t the land in question church land.
In my opinion It shouldn’t have been rezoned.

The land in question was promised to the school, the school invested in draining /levelling the land and expanding the school on that basis

ted1

Boca wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Isn’t the land in question church land.
In my opinion It shouldn’t have been rezoned.

The land in question was promised to the school, the school invested in draining /levelling the land and expanding the school on that basis

That’s really is irrelevant and actually reflects badly on the people who signed off the spend.

Look it I don’t agree with it. I have no connection what so ever. Merely highlighting why it was sold.

Seve OB

ted1 wrote: »

Isn’t the land in question church land.
In my opinion It shouldn’t have been rezoned.

its not church land
its school football pitchs and has been for 40+ years since the school was built

schemingbohemia

It is Church land and reflects badly on how we fund schools 100% that the State doesn't own and has no say in the management of. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

ted1

Seve OB wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Isn’t the land in question church land.
In my opinion It shouldn’t have been rezoned.

its not church land
its school football pitchs and has been for 40+ years since the school was built

If it wasn’t church land then how did the church sell it ?

Seve OB

there is no church anywhere near the place - it is not church land, nor ever was

it was a christian brothers school, now run by ERST.

schemingbohemia

So Church does not equal Christian Brothers? You do realise that most normal people would understand the use of the phrase "Church" as a religious organisation rather than say the Dublin Diocese?

Seve OB

schemingbohemia wrote: »

So Church does not equal Christian Brothers? You do realise that most normal people would understand the use of the phrase "Church" as a religious organisation rather than say the Dublin Diocese?

No church does not equal Christian Brothers. Well I spent 6 years of my life there, never ever did I hear any reference to church.... But maybe I missed the memo. 1 Christian brother was all that was left.
Oh but we did have a Chaplin!

I consider myself normal and have never heard of the word church being used as a phrase. If you want to say religious.... Then use the word religious.

ted1

Seve OB wrote: »

there is no church anywhere near the place - it is not church land, nor ever was

it was a christian brothers school, now run by ERST.

Christian Brothers are part of the church.

If it wasn’t their land , they couldn’t sell it.

ted1

Seve OB wrote: »

schemingbohemia wrote: »

So Church does not equal Christian Brothers? You do realise that most normal people would understand the use of the phrase "Church" as a religious organisation rather than say the Dublin Diocese?

No church does not equal Christian Brothers. Well I spent 6 years of my life there, never ever did I hear any reference to church.... But maybe I missed the memo. 1 Christian brother was all that was left.
Oh but we did have a Chaplin!

I consider myself normal and have never heard of the word church being used as a phrase. If you want to say religious.... Then use the word religious.

In that 6 years did you ever look up the land folio?

RosieJoe

Settlement reached over Clonkeen playing fields

helimachoptor

seems like an extremely bad settlement for the school

Seve OB

helimachoptor wrote: »

seems like an extremely bad settlement for the school

Whatever was ever going to happen was always going to be bad for the school.

ted1

helimachoptor wrote: »

seems like an extremely bad settlement for the school

4 acres is two pitches , not a bad deal 400% times better than last deal

DublinCJM

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but did anyone hear if planning permission was granted for this site? Can't find anything on the planning website.

Wondering if the expectation is apartments or houses.....

helimachoptor

DublinCJM wrote: »

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but did anyone hear if planning permission was granted for this site? Can't find anything on the planning website.

Wondering if the expectation is apartments or houses.....

iirc think they had wanted to do both, but the given how low rise it is around the area, probably, 3/4 stories max.