Fire safety rules

amtc

Not sure if this is right thread...

I live near the apartment complex in Dublin 15 that went up in flames last week. Our management company issued fire safety rules last week. Btw I have a house not an apartment.

The rules state some quite sensible and obvious things...such as ensuring candles out etc.

But also states that every night every internal door must be closed and locked. Failure to do so invalidates insurance. It also states you should remove your keys from the front door and hall (which again I can understand). I don't currently close my internal doors but can do so, but I can't see what benefit locking them is.

My question is can this be enforced by way of insurance?

Gumbo

amtc wrote: »

Not sure if this is right thread...

I live near the apartment complex in Dublin 15 that went up in flames last week. Our management company issued fire safety rules last week. Btw I have a house not an apartment.

The rules state some quite sensible and obvious things...such as ensuring candles out etc.

But also states that every night every internal door must be closed and locked. Failure to do so invalidates insurance. It also states you should remove your keys from the front door and hall (which again I can understand). I don't currently close my internal doors but can do so, but I can't see what benefit locking them is.

My question is can this be enforced by way of insurance?

Closing the internal doors stops fire spread throughout the building.
Really for the apartments or 3 storey houses. They will be Fire Doors.

You should never lock these with a key.

daheff

Do the mgmt company cover your house for fire insurance (I'll bet not). If they dont, then you can ignore their letter. All that matters is what your insurance policy states.



In my experience these mgmt agents companies send these kinds of letters to all properties in their remit (they can make a little on doing it -they charge the mgmt co for the letters &postage etc).

Graham

amtc wrote: »

I don't currently close my internal doors but can do so, but I can't see what benefit locking them is.

Did you ask them?

Logically, I would have thought locking all the internal doors created a greater hazard if anything.

amtc

Even though it's a house I'm still covered by the block policy as is in a mixed development. I did have cause to claim on this due to flooding some years ago so have copy of it. I have a call into the agent to check. I think what happened is they downloaded a generic set of instructions as it refers to coal fires etc....all are electric in this complex. I still wouldn't be locking doors though!

sKeith

Ask agent if he is advising locking young kids in their bedrooms?


edit: this advise is just wrong. Nobody would ever follow it and insurance company cannot possibly use it to justify not paying out claims, can they?

Graham

The more I think about this, the more nuts it sounds.

I can't help but think somebody somewhere has misunderstood the recommendations/requirements.

How can it possibly be a good idea to suggest it's in the interest of fire safety for every resident in an apartment block to lock themselves behind multiple doors.

OP, I'd go back to the management company for clarification and if you get a similar answer I'd be looking to speak to the chief fire officer for you area for their opinion.

The_Conductor

Something doesn't ring true here.

OP- query it with the Management Company- and I'd also suggest a call to the local authority for clarification is called for.

This just doesn't sound right.

amtc

Queried it with them...appears to be over zealous employee who downloaded rules from a UK site and despatched to all as a matter of initiative. Still doesn't make any sense as to locking doors. I did point out that advice to have a fire blanket or extinguisher might be better. Anyway it's being re issued this week.

sassyj

I'd be asking for a report on the fire stopping in the development. The fire appears to have spread very quickly!

Gumbo

sassyj wrote: »

I'd be asking for a report on the fire stopping in the development. The fire appears to have spread very quickly!

The way this fire started, externally on the roof, there's not much you can do to stop the spread. All the fire stopping details, compartments etc are internally situated in the building.

sassyj

Some media reports said the fire spread through attic spaces into neighboring units, sounds like inadequate fire stopping. It will be interesting to see what investigation shows up.

The_Conductor

sassyj wrote: »

Some media reports said the fire spread through attic spaces into neighboring units, sounds like inadequate fire stopping. It will be interesting to see what investigation shows up.

There are different reports- however, the cause appears to have been someone who thought, in their infinite wisdom, that it was in order to have a barbeque on their balcony- which set fire to materials on the balcony and walls- which in turn spread upwards and both inwards and outwards.

That said- its suggested that the vast bulk of the damage- is actually water damage from the fire tenders- which has seeped into units below..........

Anyhow- best not speculate- its good that revised firesafety rules are being issued by the Management Company- and I hope the employee has learnt a lesson in why copying and pasting from the internet is not always a good idea.......

Also- for the record- it would be extremely rare for an Irish dwelling to have fire doors installed (at all) much less on internal doors- and locking internal doors would very likely lead to possible escape routes being cut off.

Victor

All internal doors should be closed. Don't leave them open to hear children - get one of those electronic childminder devices.

I can imagine locking the apartment door or looking all doors in a commercial building, but not in a residential building where you have people asleep.

amtc wrote: »

Even though it's a house I'm still covered by the block policy as is in a mixed development. I did have cause to claim on this due to flooding some years ago so have copy of it.

Policy document may change annually.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Also- for the record- it would be extremely rare for an Irish dwelling to have fire doors installed (at all) much less on internal doors

For houses with three or more storeys, they should have fire doors on all doors leading to the stairwell. For apartments, depending on layout, it may be necessary on all doors leading to the corridor that has the apartment door, especially where the apartment door leads directly to a stairwell.

pilly

The_Conductor wrote:

Also- for the record- it would be extremely rare for an Irish dwelling to have fire doors installed (at all) much less on internal doors- and locking internal doors would very likely lead to possible escape routes being cut off.

Yeah, seems nuts to me. Even more so to advice taking keys out of doors. I always leave the key in the back door just in case.

amtc

Just to be clear and I pointed out in my initial post this is not the development that went on fire, but another one in Dublin 15. It's about 2km away but obviously led to the property agents deciding to issue these rules, which are now being reissued.

I personally have two minds in leaving keys in external doors, as there was a spate locally of keys being fished out of letterboxes with magnets and cars being taken. But it's my only exit point other than leaping off the upstairs (back door opens into very enclosed space with high walls)

Gumbo

The_Conductor wrote: »

Also- for the record- it would be extremely rare for an Irish dwelling to have fire doors installed (at all) much less on internal doors- and locking internal doors would very likely lead to possible escape routes being cut off.

All 3 storey dwellings have fire doors, protected stair cores and all attic conversions should contain at least a fire door at attic level.
There is no regulation stopping you putting locks on the bedroom doors, its advisable not to, but I cant enforce them. I always advise to put the thumb locks on them.

sassyj

The_Conductor wrote: »

Also- for the record- it would be extremely rare for an Irish dwelling to have fire doors installed (at all) much less on internal doors- and locking internal doors would very likely lead to possible escape routes being cut off.

In my house - 60 min rated fire doors in kitchen, 30 min fire rated doors on bedrooms, all self closing. Standard throughout the estate I live in, built in 2006. I presumed these were residential building regs because I can't imagine the builders splashing out on anything they didn't have to.

astrofool

sassyj wrote: »

In my house - 60 min rated fire doors in kitchen, 30 min fire rated doors on bedrooms, all self closing. Standard throughout the estate I live in, built in 2006. I presumed these were residential building regs because I can't imagine the builders splashing out on anything they didn't have to.

Does anyone leave the self closer on the doors? Most places I've seen have them removed (or drive themselves mad with door stops).

Victor

astrofool wrote: »

Does anyone leave the self closer on the doors? Most places I've seen have them removed (or drive themselves mad with door stops).

This is inappropriate and potentially endangers others.

CollyFlower

I have a few doors in my apartment that are left open with wedges... I used to leave the balcony door open during the summer, day and night, until one night a party above me were out on their balcony smoking and a stubb landed on my balcony, got worried then, it could have easily come into my living room... I'm a smoker meself and am now always make sure I put it out.

I'm also very weary now of leaving windows open as a cigarettes butt can easily blow in if flicked from above.

astrofool

Victor wrote: »

This is inappropriate and potentially endangers others.

That wasn't the question, every apartment I've been in uses doorstops or removes the door closers, I don't live in an apartment myself, but it's clearly not an effective regulation.

pilly

CollyFlower wrote: »

I have a few doors in my apartment that are left open with wedges... I used to leave the balcony door open during the summer, day and night, until one night a party above me were out on their balcony smoking and a stubb landed on my balcony, got worried then, it could have easily come into my living room... I'm a smoker meself and am now always make sure I put it out.

I'm also very weary now of leaving windows open as a cigarettes butt can easily blow in if flicked from above.

Little known fact but cigarettes have been changed in the last couple of years so that they go out when not being dragged (if you know what I mean).

Victor

pilly wrote: »

Little known fact but cigarettes have been changed in the last couple of years so that they go out when not being dragged (if you know what I mean).

Perhaps, but what they land on might not, e.g. newspaper, used kitchen utensils.