Focus Ireland.

Beyondgone

What would happen if we decided to focus? What if we, as a nation, drew a line in the sand and decided we were going to be pure Output?
No frippery, no overseas aid, no Arts, no fcuking about - just pure Output. The best Hospitals - to attract medical tourists. The best Industry, to export and earn cash. The best Roads, The best Wi-Fi, the best Ports, The best factories.

We have the talent -Irish people go worldwide and build/run this stuff in other countries. Why not here? Ditch the drama, ditch the excuses and just aim for pure commercial output. We're that way minded anyway, why don't we go the whole hog??

me_irl

Go back to Twitter Mr President.

koumi

thought it was going to be a thread about the homeless tbh

TheBully

We have the talent, we have the capabilities. We just lack a government that could pull it off

monkeysnapper

Balls....... Thought you were selling a car ....

koumi

Beyondgone wrote: »

We have the talent -Irish people go worldwide and build/run this stuff in other countries. Why not here?

because other countries = better pay/conditions/living standards? Just better.

A Battered Mars Bar

But who'll fix the roads??? That''s money that should be spent on hospital beds

pangbang

There was a comic I read aeons ago, set in the future, and it named Ireland as one of the top 4 countries in the world for everything from weapons to pharma!

Theres no doubting that we have the skill, don't mind anyone who says otherwise.

The gigantic hurdle is long-term thinking. Like most countries, we just don't have any.

Next in line to that long-term thinking is the capital to get it off the ground.

I'd love an oul bash at dictator here. Lay it out straight that we are gonna be poor as **** for 5 years while we pour everything and all effort into infrastructure and become absolute cutting edge, THE best. Don't share f88king anything with any other country. And if its all bollocked in 5 years, then I'll happily run for my life.

But trying to sell several years of poor/meagre living to everyone, the voting public?..............that's why it doesn't happen. Some eejit pops up with answers "right now!" and the people will lap it up. Ah well.

Beyondgone

TheBully wrote: »

We have the talent, we have the capabilities. We just lack a government that could pull it off

Maybe the Government need to aim higher so? Lift their eyes above the Parish pump? Everyone knows we have the talent - our people go abroad and achieve great things, why not here at home. Borrow the bloody money to do it -it would pay back tenfold.

gizmo81

I can't imagine life without the arts.

Beyondgone wrote: »

What would happen if we decided to focus? What if we, as a nation, drew a line in the sand and decided we were going to be pure Output?
No frippery, no overseas aid, no Arts, no fcuking about - just pure Output. The best Hospitals - to attract medical tourists. The best Industry, to export and earn cash. The best Roads, The best Wi-Fi, the best Ports, The best factories.

We have the talent -Irish people go worldwide and build/run this stuff in other countries. Why not here? Ditch the drama, ditch the excuses and just aim for pure commercial output. We're that way minded anyway, why don't we go the whole hog??

koumi

Beyondgone wrote: »

Maybe the Government need to aim higher so? Lift their eyes above the Parish pump? Everyone knows we have the talent - our people go abroad and achieve great things, why not here at home. Borrow the bloody money to do it -it would pay back tenfold.

I don't think anyone doubts the availability of skill and ability here, it's just that it doesn't seem to be compatible with the Irish way of life. There's a thread elsewhere which touched on the different kind of working environments in other countries, and which are probably more compatible to the kind of achievements you're hoping for. Try Germany.

pangbang

gizmo81 wrote: »

I can't imagine life without the arts.

Yeah no need to cut arts (well, besides that modern art buffoonery! Take a walk around the royal kilmainham hospital if youre up for a laugh (its very far from funny actually))

Ubbquittious

The place would become incredibly dull. There's more to life than feeding consumerism

pangbang

koumi wrote: »

I don't think anyone doubts the availability of skill and ability here, it's just that it doesn't seem to be compatible with the Irish way of life. There's a thread elsewhere which touched on the different kind of working environments in other countries, and which are probably more compatible to the kind of achievements you're hoping for. Try Germany.

Its a catch-22 situation then, if we don't have the "environment" people leave, if people leave we don't have the "environment (or at least far less likely)

Its all about the leadership and vision. And I can safely say that there isn't a politician alive in this country that measures up to even half the job. Radical change needed.

Ubbquittious

koumi wrote: »

thought it was going to be a thread about the homeless tbh

I thought this was going to be about Ford cars

pangbang

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The place would become incredibly dull

No way, man, we would be the centre of the world, and eventually the universe! We would be masters of our own making, all bending to our rule, muahahaAHAHAHAHAH!!





Quite exciting, really.

Beyondgone

pangbang wrote: »

Yeah no need to cut arts (well, besides that modern art buffoonery! Take a walk around the royal kilmainham hospital if youre up for a laugh (its very far from funny actually))

For 2 decades, cut everything not related to Commercial output. Go South Korea on it. Make the only exceptions childcare and healthcare -go heavy on these as well - make the country a centre of excellence on those fronts. On every other front, focus on Output and commercialism. The frippery can come later. Every acre with a cow, every hectare with a factory, every town with an industry. We spend our time and energy on drama, arguments and sh1t. Refocus the entire country. I doubt most of the people would object - most are working flat out anyway to support our Governments frippery. Ditch the frippery. All of it. If it isn't commercial, it's gone.

Ubbquittious

pangbang wrote: »

No way, man, we would be the centre of the world, and eventually the universe! We would be masters of our own making, all bending to our rule, muahahaAHAHAHAHAH!!





Quite exciting, really.

There would be a lot of gobsh1tes wearing suits, glass buildings and overpriced shoebox apartments. There will be a big rat-race and a lot of orderly hustle and bustle but very sterile and bland.

I would instead be in favour of kicking out all the megacorps, closing the border and letting the place go mad.

Beyondgone

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There would be a lot of gobsh1tes wearing suits, glass buildings and overpriced shoebox apartments. There will be a big rat-race and a lot of orderly hustle and bustle but very sterile and bland.

I would instead be in favour of kicking out all the megacorps, closing the border an the place go madd letting.

We tried that -it was called 1970-2008. It didn't work. New ideas are needed.

pangbang

Beyondgone wrote: »

For 2 decades, cut everything not related to Commercial output. Go South Korea on it. Make the only exceptions childcare and healthcare -go heavy on these as well - make the country a centre of excellence on those fronts. On every other front, focus on Output and commercialism. The frippery can come later. Every acre with a cow, every hectare with a factory, every town with an industry. We spend our time and energy on drama, arguments and sh1t. Refocus the entire country. I doubt most of the people would object - most are working flat out anyway to support our Governments frippery. Ditch the frippery. All of it. If it isn't commercial, it's gone.

Suppose one solution would be to "commercialise" the country. In exchange for dividends labour is provided for 5 years, say.

When industry opens properly, all irish people are entitled to their payment on shares. Like communism, but with an ACTUAL payoff for people.

But the real danger would be corruption of the system, turned up to infinity!

An experiment worth a go, in my opinion, though.

Beyondgone

gizmo81 wrote: »

I can't imagine life without the arts.

You'll get the fcuk over it when you can afford your own Monet. Till then, do stuff. The Dole's gone - get to work. In my New Vision, we've the best Hospitals in the world -you can paint them. Start with the back wall. Magnolia is good - nice and cheap, but looks well. The new ethos.

koumi

pangbang wrote: »

Its a catch-22 situation then, if we don't have the "environment" people leave, if people leave we don't have the "environment (or at least far less likely)

Its all about the leadership and vision. And I can safely say that there isn't a politician alive in this country that measures up to even half the job. Radical change needed.

well I've seen people who had to leave who end up living better lives, far beyond what they might have achieved here and that makes me happy. I think I'm more concerned for their personal happiness and satisfaction.

pangbang

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There would be a lot of gobsh1tes wearing suits, glass buildings and overpriced shoebox apartments. There will be a big rat-race and a lot of orderly hustle and bustle but very sterile and bland.

I would instead be in favour of kicking out all the megacorps, closing the border and letting the place go mad.

But I don't think there would be so much of a rat-race, as it wouldn't be irish people competing against irish people, it would be irish people robbing the rest of the world blind. I mean, surely we deserve a shot at the old colonialism, fairs fair :P

And ban suits.

Ubbquittious

Beyondgone wrote: »

We tried that -it was called 1970-2008. It didn't work. New ideas are needed.

I don't think the border was closed during that time. I mean we should become an isolationist state like North Korea that nobody on the outside really knows much about. Cultivate an air of mystery about the place. We don't need to bother with the nukes, oppression and labour camps but make sure nobody gets in or out. This approach worked for North Korea it made them the centre of attention and they didn't have to spend a bob on it. Build the odd small-scale nuclear powerstation and launch the odd rocket to keep the outsiders guessing.

pangbang

koumi wrote: »

well I've seen people who had to leave who end up living better lives, far beyond what they might have achieved here and that makes me happy. I think I'm more concerned for their personal happiness and satisfaction.

Well that's just it, isn't it! A diluted version of capitalism (now now now, me me me) versus communism (collective good that's crushed by the shiny dreams of capitalism)

A third way is necessary......Communapitalism!

Beyondgone

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I don't think the border was closed during that time. I mean we should become an isolationist state like North Korea that nobody on the outside really knows much about. Cultivate an air of mystery about the place. We don't need to bother with the nukes, oppression and labour camps but make sure nobody gets in or out. This approach worked for North Korea it made them the centre of attention and they didn't have to spend a bob on it. Build the odd small-scale nuclear powerstation and launch the odd rocket to keep the outsiders guessing.

Lad, you, your data and your ideas need to pack a bag, hitch a mule and fcuk off to another thread. This one is about ideals. An Ideal Nation. Not N Korea - think more Switzerland, but with accents. Cool accents. And good roads.

gizmo81

The arts don't need to be cut. The arts can be profitable . . .

The Society of London Theatre’s (SOLT) 2015 Box Office figures showed 2015 to be the best year ever for London theatre. Collectively, London’s theatres yielded a gross revenue of £633 million in 2015, up 1.6 per cent compared with 2014. Ticket sales generated over £105 million in VAT receipts for the Treasury. Overall theatre attendance in 2015 was 14,742,588, with an average weekly attendance of 283,511 (278,205 in 2014).


http://www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/healthy-box-office-figures-in-2015_39836.html

Beyondgone wrote: »

You'll get the fcuk over it when you can afford your own Monet. Till then, do stuff. The Dole's gone - get to work. In my New Vision, we've the best Hospitals in the world -you can paint them. Start with the back wall. Magnolia is good - nice and cheap, but looks well. The new ethos.

pangbang

Beyondgone wrote: »

Lad, you, your data and your ideas need to pack a bag, hitch a mule and fcuk off to another thread. This one is about ideals. An Ideal Nation. Not N Korea - think more Switzerland, but with accents. Cool accents. And good roads.

Rude as foooook, but it made me laugh

Beyondgone

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I thought this was going to be about Ford cars

Your bad so. It's about best Ireland. Uber Ireland. Employing our Nurses instead of exporting them. Employing our engineers instead of exporting them. Employing our logistics, IT, Healthcare, Pharma and Electronics experts, instead of exporting them. We have exported enough of our talented children. It's time we employed them here at home. It just needs a change of Focus.

Ubbquittious

Beyondgone wrote: »

Lad, you, your data and your ideas need to pack a bag, hitch a mule and fcuk off to another thread. This one is about ideals. An Ideal Nation. Not N Korea - think more Switzerland, but with accents. Cool accents. And good roads.

Ah the auld Kim Jong-il was quite fond of Switzerland, sent his son over to get educated and all. If you're wanting to ape them you better plan a good Ixit first or you'll have all of Europe hanging off yer apron strings as soon as you make a few bob

Beyondgone

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Ah the auld Kim Jong-il was quite fond of Switzerland, sent his son over to get educated and all. If you're wanting to ape them you better plan a good Ixit first or you'll have all of Europe hanging off yer apron strings as soon as you make a few bob

Not being nasty here, but if you don't have a positive, intelligent contribution to make, Pleashelp thanks probably has a thread that suits your mindset. Good lad.

koumi

pangbang wrote: »

Well that's just it, isn't it! A diluted version of capitalism (now now now, me me me) versus communism (collective good that's crushed by the shiny dreams of capitalism)

A third way is necessary......Communapitalism!

Ireland is built on cronyism and corruption, get rid of that and it may stand a better chance of retaining some of its finer assets.

Ubbquittious

Beyondgone wrote: »

Not being nasty here, but if you don't have a positive, intelligent contribution to make, Pleashelp thanks probably has a thread that suits your mindset. Good lad.

I have plenty to make, I just happen to think that isolationism is better than chasing the glitz and the glamour of commercialism. In fact isolationism might be the path to bringing manufacturing and all that good stuff back to Ireland.

You see it's too easy for lazy f*ckers now to throw themselves down on a leather couch with a laptop & a takeaway and say f*ck it I couldn't be bollixed making actual stuff anymore, let's order 10,000 from Alibaba and go on the lash for the week. Isolationism brings the necessity to stand on one's own two feet.

Beyondgone

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I have plenty to make, I just happen to think that isolationism is better than chasing the glitz and the glamour of commercialism. In fact isolationism might be the path to bringing manufacturing and all that good stuff back to Ireland.

You see it's too easy for lazy f*ckers now to throw themselves down on a leather couch with a laptop & a takeaway and say f*ck it I couldn't be bollixed making actual stuff anymore, let's order 10,000 from Alibaba and go on the lash for the week. Isolationism brings the necessity to stand on one's own two feet.

We aren't currently pursuing isolationism. So I believe pursuing "Focus" would allow us to pursue non-isolationism without constraint.

Ubbquittious

Beyondgone wrote: »

We aren't currently pursuing isolationism. So I believe pursuing "Focus" would allow us to pursue non-isolationism without constraint.

Not too late to change, though we should probably wait till we have the Nordies back. Makes life a bit easier, when you have the whole island to yourself. Next order of business should be electing a good despot.

Arts sector raise 306.8 million in tax: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/arts-sector-raised-306-8m-in-tax-revenues-last-year-1.12485%3Fmode%3Damp

.1% of GDP spent on arts: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/first-national-cultural-policy-unveiled-for-the-arts-1.2728833%3Fmode%3Damp


Is there really a need for the constant attack on the arts? It pays for itself, 6 times over. Is there any other industry with that rate of return?

Besides, what's the point of living without art? Its nice to look at pretty things and enjoy comedy, theatre, music.