slatted shed to grant or not

kerb

Hi all we loking to put up a 3 bay single slatted shed with creap area i have been checking about tams 2 grant seams very messy so just wondering is it worth it when you consider grant spec or a good spec i wouldn't be doing any of the work myself as im working, so would anyone have done a 3 bay grant spec what was cost when shed completed or done one without grant and what was cost , thanks in advance
I would be entitled to a 40% grant

The part time boy

Spoken to shed man and concrete man in last 12 months . They both said grants for putting down concrete and sheds are not worth the grant.

Only way it seems to make sense if your buying equipment

Paddysniper

Great post.
I'm in the same boat as you except we're hoping to do it ourselves.
Priced it at roughly 20k. Seems there's a grant price for sheds and a non grant price.

kerb

Hi paddy is that price of 20k for a contractor to do it or doing it yourself

Paddysniper

kerb wrote: »

Hi paddy is that price of 20k for a contractor to do it or doing it yourself

Howdy.
That'd be doing it ourselves. Excluding barriers.

kerb

So your thinking 20k for all materials for tank ,slats, shed, ,walls electric ,plumbing, doors, and then covering all labour yourself

Mental simmental

Paddy snipper. That sounds good. Most lads telling me around ten grand a bay. At the cheapest... I've land to use but no bloody shed..

Count Mondego

I think this grant price and non-grant price difference is overrated. The only major difference is the spec for concrete with grant is 37n. What else are you going to save on? Fully galvanised girders, agri-tech sheeting, slats?

10-15k per bay if there's a creep. If you run into trouble with rock in the tank more again.

st1979

Any grant jobs I done myself. I can see very little differences. Sheeting needs a grant spec stamp. That is a little dearer. But your purlins, gutters, tek screws, labour are the very same. Your steelwork needs galvanising or proper painting (should be done anyway) and steel spec is only about 1" heavier than what I would use anyway ie use a 9" girder where I might of used a 8".
You need planning permission and this can cost a bit for drawings but I always drew my own. Have to say council always been helpful in that regard.
You need the right attitude. I look at it in a positive way follow there rules and I get a better shed which cost maybe 10% more but get back 40%. My late father would of done it his way then argued it was sufficient and got difficulty getting paid.

Granted if you are getting a contractor your prices maybe significantly more but I done nearly all work in house

larthehar

I priced both ways it without any of my own labour.. grant job costs approx 15% more + 1500 for planning.. so you are getting 40% makes sense.. if you are doing it yourself alot cheaper to go it alone imo!

kerb

larthehar wrote: »

I priced both ways it without any of my own labour.. grant job costs approx 15% more + 1500 for planning.. so you are getting 40% makes sense.. if you are doing it yourself alot cheaper to go it alone imo!

Thanks for info could you tell me a rough cost on grant or no grant spec

cute geoge

Imo labour is the biggest cost in all sheds .It is very well a lad saying he priced a 3 bay shed at 20k plus his own labour but most lads have no time or the skills/tools to build these sheds .I got a local builder to erect a leanto last year and i got a fright when i got bill ,it worked out 140 cash per day but saying that i was very happy with the work .I don know whether i was sauced or not but it is heavy work ..Would it work out 260/day if done through the books

Paddysniper

kerb wrote: »

So your thinking 20k for all materials for tank ,slats, shed, ,walls electric ,plumbing, doors, and then covering all labour yourself

Yeah all the big stuff is priced excluding the barriers.
As lads have said the labour is a killer.
Obviously there'll be hidden extras but won't be too much.
I've heard the contractor near us giving different prices for grant jobs to non grant jobs so I guess it depends on who's at it and where.

Paddysniper

Mental simmental wrote: »

Paddy snipper. That sounds good. Most lads telling me around ten grand a bay. At the cheapest... I've land to use but no bloody shed..

Yeah the 10k a bay ive heard too but that'd include labour I suppose.
Yeah I'm the same as yourself, pure messing without one we'd be proper farmers with a shed shur lol

Signpost

I'd be considering how long you will be out of pocket for buying more expensive materials if you go the grant route. I done & paid for a job in Feb 2016 and still waiting on payment

maidhc

I am 1/2 way through a grant spec shed. 4 columns, 2x tanks, 8' deep with a 16'6 slat an a 20' centre passage. The job will cost about 100k+VAT, and I will get 48k of a grant under TAMS.

I would have saved about 5k going for good "non grant" spec on the concrete. I doubt there would be any difference on the shed.

dzer2

maidhc wrote: »

I am 1/2 way through a grant spec shed. 4 columns, 2x tanks, 8' deep with a 16'6 slat an a 20' centre passage. The job will cost about 100k+VAT, and I will get 48k of a grant under TAMS.

I would have saved about 5k going for good "non grant" spec on the concrete. I doubt there would be any difference on the shed.

Still left with a hell of a bill tho

Cavanjack

maidhc wrote: »

I am 1/2 way through a grant spec shed. 4 columns, 2x tanks, 8' deep with a 16'6 slat an a 20' centre passage. The job will cost about 100k+VAT, and I will get 48k of a grant under TAMS.

I would have saved about 5k going for good "non grant" spec on the concrete. I doubt there would be any difference on the shed.

What length is the shed?

Hard Knocks

maidhc wrote: »

I am 1/2 way through a grant spec shed. 4 columns, 2x tanks, 8' deep with a 16'6 slat an a 20' centre passage. The job will cost about 100k+VAT, and I will get 48k of a grant under TAMS.

I would have saved about 5k going for good "non grant" spec on the concrete. I doubt there would be any difference on the shed.

I know it's big, but why not tank the passage?

Dunedin

Just to clarify or excuse my ignorance.......but are lads talking about double or single sided sheds here???

TITANIUM.

Dunedin wrote: »

Just to clarify or excuse my ignorance.......but are lads talking about double or single sided sheds here???

There's abit of both going on I'd say.

maidhc

Hard Knocks wrote: »

I know it's big, but why not tank the passage?

Have to stop somewhere? Shed is about 63' long.

Bill is 10k -15k of my funds and the balance of 40k over 5 years.

Cavanjack

maidhc wrote: »

Have to stop somewhere? Shed is about 63' long.

Bill is 10k -15k of my funds and the balance of 40k over 5 years.

So it's a 4 bay double shed with a creep area either side?

locha

Finished a shed in January. 120ft long tank 2 12ft6 back to back. The shed was 110ft i.e. 7 span. Didn't do it to grant spec but didn't skimp. Used mesh and rebar in tank 35n concrete. A couple of points I noted. Prices varied widely when I was starting out. Lads probably were not sure if I was just pricing for the crack or actually serious so what I did to show I was not messing was I dug the tank out. Then I got two concrete suppliers out. I had an idea of what the cost was going to be but what I then did and which was a serious saver was that I told them both I was paying for all the concrete upfront. Which I did. Then it was the slats, same deal. Rang suppliers, told them I had the tank poured and was ready for slats. Again a very competitive price. Then I bought the shed after that it was onto the fit out. Every stage I got someone different to do the job. Ultimately each stage is time and materials. Bottom line it came in at under 10k a bay + VAT. If I was building another shed, I would do it the same way. Caveats, everyone who came on site was known to me and fairly local and had insurance. Also I did not have to pay for back fill as I had access to stone and I have a dump trailer.

maidhc

Cavanjack wrote: »

So it's a 4 bay double shed with a creep area either side?

4 bay, with a centre passage and feed troughs at the back of the pens. No creep area... does that make sense?

Cavanjack

maidhc wrote: »

4 bay, with a centre passage and feed troughs at the back of the pens. No creep area... does that make sense?

Got ya. Thought it sounded dear a first but you've a wide slat and large centre passage so it's a fair width of a shed as well. It'll be a fine shed. Are you putting in precast troughs at the back? What sort of money are they a pen?

lakill Farm

Were there many suppliers who said they were to busy to do the work at the time and lead to gaps of time in them starting there phase?

locha wrote: »

Finished a shed in January. 120ft long tank 2 12ft6 back to back. The shed was 110ft i.e. 7 span. Didn't do it to grant spec but didn't skimp. Used mesh and rebar in tank 35n concrete. A couple of points I noted. Prices varied widely when I was starting out. Lads probably were not sure if I was just pricing for the crack or actually serious so what I did to show I was not messing was I dug the tank out. Then I got two concrete suppliers out. I had an idea of what the cost was going to be but what I then did and which was a serious saver was that I told them both I was paying for all the concrete upfront. Which I did. Then it was the slats, same deal. Rang suppliers, told them I had the tank poured and was ready for slats. Again a very competitive price. Then I bought the shed after that it was onto the fit out. Every stage I got someone different to do the job. Ultimately each stage is time and materials. Bottom line it came in at under 10k a bay + VAT. If I was building another shed, I would do it the same way. Caveats, everyone who came on site was known to me and fairly local and had insurance. Also I did not have to pay for back fill as I had access to stone and I have a dump trailer.

maidhc

lakill Farm wrote: »

Were there many suppliers who said they were to busy to do the work at the time and lead to gaps of time in them starting there phase?

I have to say I have had no issue so far in mine anyway. Dwyer Steel seem very keen to get going on the shed (I might seem them today actually when i get home!). The concrete man has been reliable. Even the trusty Ford 550 has kept going when needed (proof attached)

Bullocks

maidhc wrote: »

I have to say I have had no issue so far in mine anyway. Dwyer Steel seem very keen to get going on the shed (I might seem them today actually when i get home!). The concrete man has been reliable. Even the trusty Ford 550 has kept going when needed (proof attached)

Whatever about more shed advice , we definitely need more of those ford pictures !

locha

lakill Farm wrote: »

Were there many suppliers who said they were to busy to do the work at the time and lead to gaps of time in them starting there phase?[/QUO
No. Once I had the tank dug it gave me time to line everyone up. Slight delay in the slats but that was the salesman overpromising. That apart it was a good process.

MIKEKC

In the discussion on grant v no grant nobody discussing tax. If you pay e100,000 for shed and get 40% grant you can only claim e60,000 against tax. If no grant you can claim e100,000. This cuts the value of grant

Timmaay

MIKEKC wrote: »

In the discussion on grant v no grant nobody discussing tax. If you pay e100,000 for shed and get 40% grant you can only claim e60,000 against tax. If no grant you can claim e100,000. This cuts the value of grant

ah here, that's the wrong attitude, you go claim your grant, get back ur 40k (this assuming your in a partnership, otherwise the ceiling is 80k,or 32k), you then go off an spend the 40k on other farm items, and the full amount ends up offset against tax anyways! The only place it might make a difference is in writing off capital allowances over 8years, that's something you should be assessing each year anyways and planning appropriate for (within cash flow constraints of course)

MIKEKC

You might not need to invest another e40,000. Most people would be borrowing that kind of money and would have a bank manager waiting for the grant. I actually meant claiming capital allowances

kerb

So do ye think i would build a 3 bay single with creep area for 30k + vat at grant spec.?? If things were to go acording to plan

shrek008

kerb wrote: »

So do ye think i would build a 3 bay single with creep area for 30k + vat at grant spec.?? If things were to go acording to plan

Id say you could add another 7-8k +vat to that

freedominacup

locha wrote: »

Finished a shed in January. 120ft long tank 2 12ft6 back to back. The shed was 110ft i.e. 7 span. Didn't do it to grant spec but didn't skimp. Used mesh and rebar in tank 35n concrete. A couple of points I noted. Prices varied widely when I was starting out. Lads probably were not sure if I was just pricing for the crack or actually serious so what I did to show I was not messing was I dug the tank out. Then I got two concrete suppliers out. I had an idea of what the cost was going to be but what I then did and which was a serious saver was that I told them both I was paying for all the concrete upfront. Which I did. Then it was the slats, same deal. Rang suppliers, told them I had the tank poured and was ready for slats. Again a very competitive price. Then I bought the shed after that it was onto the fit out. Every stage I got someone different to do the job. Ultimately each stage is time and materials. Bottom line it came in at under 10k a bay + VAT. If I was building another shed, I would do it the same way. Caveats, everyone who came on site was known to me and fairly local and had insurance. Also I did not have to pay for back fill as I had access to stone and I have a dump trailer.

Good post. Just goes to show the variety in land types around the country. Initially I couldn't figure out why you mentioned about having access to stone for back filling. Around here you wouldn't bother moving the stone too far after digging out until the tank was poured and you knew how much of it you'd need for back filling and bases.

kerb

shrek008 wrote: »

Id say you could add another 7-8k +vat to that

So at 38k and - 40% grant = would end up costing 23k , i wonder what a non spec shed cost approx

shrek008

kerb wrote: »

So at 38k and - 40% grant = would end up costing 23k , i wonder what a non spec shed cost approx

Id say the cost would be the same but you would have a far better spec'd shed with grant spec

Cavanjack

kerb wrote: »

So at 38k and - 40% grant = would end up costing 23k , i wonder what a non spec shed cost approx

Just remember it might cost you 38k to build it but if the department costings are 35k you'll only get the grant on the 35k

Bass Reeves

The reference cost for a 3 bay shed with a 9' deep tank and 16' slats is about 34K. That is excluding vat which would add about 15% on to the price so about 37.5K including vat. This is not including a lie back area which would add over 9K to reference costs for a 5 meter lie back area. For the basic shed the grant would be about 13.5K and bring the net cost to about 20K. I cannot see you building it for that kind of money as a non grant job.

The mistake lads make are putting bells and whiste's on barriers, electrical or gates. As well as far as I remember you are paid slatted rate on toe area's inside of barriers to a max of 0.5 metres back and front. The lay back area on a shed for instance will give you over 9k in reference costs but is fairy straight forward and the bigger the area the less it cost / sq meter to errect. For instance a 3M lay bach will only add 5.5K to reference costs but you will need much the same steel and walls as a 5M lay back so at the end of the day it costs little etra. Same with using 10' slats compared to 16' slats you are allowed same per sq meter rewference costs

kk.man

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The reference cost for a 3 bay shed with a 9' deep tank and 16' slats is about 34K. That is excluding vat which would add about 15% on to the price so about 37.5K including vat. This is not including a lie back area which would add over 9K to reference costs for a 5 meter lie back area. For the basic shed the grant would be about 13.5K and bring the net cost to about 20K. I cannot see you building it for that kind of money as a non grant job.

The mistake lads make are putting bells and whiste's on barriers, electrical or gates. As well as far as I remember you are paid slatted rate on toe area's inside of barriers to a max of 0.5 metres back and front. The lay back area on a shed for instance will give you over 9k in reference costs but is fairy straight forward and the bigger the area the less it cost / sq meter to errect. For instance a 3M lay bach will only add 5.5K to reference costs but you will need much the same steel and walls as a 5M lay back so at the end of the day it costs little etra. Same with using 10' slats compared to 16' slats you are allowed same per sq meter rewference costs

So Bass I'm not looking to build one yet but I might at some point. Based on your figures what is the net cost on spec vrs non spec?

Bass Reeves

kk.man wrote: »

So Bass I'm not looking to build one yet but I might at some point. Based on your figures what is the net cost on spec vrs non spec?

I cannot give you exact figures as I have not done any shed work in the last 3+ years. But it is hard to see massive savings V grant unless you either pay cash ( no receipt and no tax write off) or unless you reduce your spec drastically. Where lads usually get caught as I pointed out earlier is bells and whistle's in internal fit out or not going for large slat's etc. The other thing that can catch lads is if they over spend on one part and under spend on another section they are only grant aided to the reference costs on that section. As well lads often forget to add in there own labour and machinery costs at reference levels to maximize grant draw down.

At a guess it is hard to see a decent 3 bay shed costing less than 27-30K to not grant spec unless farmer inputs a lot of his own time and machinery. But if you do that for a grant approved shed you can input that cost and draw down the grant for it

kerb

So after lots of thinking and advise here i think the best way to go is grant spec i will get 40% grant i contacted a farm advisor they will handle everything from planing to tams application to tams payment there cost is 1600 + vat do ye think it is worth it i hope to be working full time soon advise welcome ☺

Irish Beef

kerb wrote: »

So after lots of thinking and advise here  i think the best way to go is grant spec i will get 40% grant  i contacted a farm advisor  they will handle everything from planing to tams application to tams payment  there cost is 1600 + vat  do ye think it is worth it i hope to be working full time soon  advise welcome ☺

Is it teagasc your dealing with? Im in a similar position myself, hoping to put up a slatted shed and maybe cubicles and creep area. What stage with you want to be putting in planning and grant application in order to start the build next Spring/Summer.

Tyson Lannister

You'd want to be applying for planning straight away really. The next tranche deadline is 30 June, so if you want to be in before the next one you would want to get started.
The deadlines are every 3 months - it will take 3 months minimum for Planning Permission from the time you submit the application.
You can't apply for the grant until you have full Planning Permission.

Tyson Lannister

kerb wrote: »

So after lots of thinking and advise here i think the best way to go is grant spec i will get 40% grant i contacted a farm advisor they will handle everything from planing to tams application to tams payment there cost is 1600 + vat do ye think it is worth it i hope to be working full time soon advise welcome ☺

I think you're about right there. Teagasc seem to be charging around 750 for a grant application, around €1000 then for a planning application depending on which county you are in. Some councils require a basic enough plan, some councils require an awful lot of work (Cork).

Paddysniper

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

I think you're about right there. Teagasc seem to be charging around 750 for a grant application, around €1000 then for a planning application depending on which county you are in. Some councils require a basic enough plan, some councils require an awful lot of work (Cork).

Surely that's a rip off?

kerb

Irish Beef wrote: »

Is it teagasc your dealing with? Im in a similar position myself, hoping to put up a slatted shed and maybe cubicles and creep area. What stage with you want to be putting in planning and grant application in order to start the build next Spring/Summer.

No not teagasc , farm advisor company, put in for planning asap and work from there, i exempt from planing but i still need confirmation letter from co.co so can take a good few weeks i would not be ready for this tranche

Tyson Lannister

kerb wrote: »

No not teagasc , farm advisor company, put in for planning asap and work from there, i exempt from planing but i still need confirmation letter from co.co so can take a good few weeks i would not be ready for this tranche

Just be careful with that exempt from planning part.
If you send off the letter from the council it wont be enough - you'll need to draw up the plans of the proposed shed and send it off to the council for a section 5 exemption.
You'll need to get the plans back then from the council with the council stamp on them (usually around 3 weeks). Make sure all internal dimensions are on the plans as well as external. If you don't get all this done it will cause delay in processing the application - i know this from personal experience.

Tyson Lannister

Paddysniper wrote: »

Surely that's a rip off?

Teagasc or planning?