2 electric showers tripping fuseboard

wilser

Hi
I have been asked to take a look at the plumbing of two Triton electric showers that are tripping the breaker after a couple of minutes use. An electrician has already had a look at them and said it must be a plumbing fault as the electrical end is ok. AFAIK there is no changeover fitted but the householder understands that the 2 can't be run together.
I have asked her to try each shower on cold only to see if that helps but it still trips, I was fairly confident that it was an electrical fault in the fuse board but the sparks who had a look said no.
Any ideas what might be causing both of these to trip? Still can't see it being a plumbing problem but am open to correction.
Thanks

brightspark

Is it tripping due to earth leakage or overcurrent.

I doubt if it's a plumbing issue unless water is pouring over the connections!

It could be that the elements have failed (limescale?) running cold may not be enough to stop the breaker tripping as an earth-neutral fault can result in a breaker tripping. The element may need to be isolated to check it properly. However an electrician with a megger should easily be able to diagnose that.

What doesn't make sense is why both failed at the same time, could they have been powered up with no water?

wilser

brightspark wrote: »

Is it tripping due to earth leakage or overcurrent.



What doesn't make sense is why both failed at the same time, could they have been powered up with no water?

No idea why it's tripping tbh, AFAIK the original plumber and sparks where a bit of a disaster. They got a new sparks in and it worked ok for a couple of weeks and then started acting up again, house is in an estate in leixlip so doubt it is limescale. When the householder rang the second sparks to let him know it was acting up again he said it must be a plumbing issue.

Randyleprechaun

Faulty RCBO?

Seen it once only before.

meercat

i think you need a competent rec to check the installation tbh
there should be a priority or non priority switch fitted in the first instance
i have replaced a few faulty rcbos (mostly garo,which they have now recognized and rectified the issues with)so it may be that

wilser

Randyleprechaun wrote: »

Faulty RCBO?

Seen it once only before.

That was the first thing I thought it was but being a plumber, it's awkward to go in telling someone that their is a fault in the fuse board when a sparks has already said everything in there is sound.
Think I will bring a sparks with me when I am going to have a look at it.
Thanks everybody for your help.
Greatly appreciated

EHP

wilser wrote: »

That was the first thing I thought it was but being a plumber, it's awkward to go in telling someone that their is a fault in the fuse board when a sparks has already said everything in there is sound.
Think I will bring a sparks with me when I am going to have a look at it.
Thanks everybody for your help.
Greatly appreciated

Make sure your own REC certs any works he completes such as changing the RCBO, there should be a mechanical interlock between the showers if not there and the clients wont pay for one he should issue a notice of potential hazard. If you take your REC there and the previous installers haven't certified there work or it isn't up to standard I would contact them to do so and if they wont report to Safe Electric otherwise your REC is taking on the responsibility of there install. See the below taken from the safe electric procedures manual which every REC agrees to when joining RECI.

1. Introduction

While in, or in the vicinity of an Electrical Installation or while carrying out work in an electrical installation,
a Safe Electric Inspector or a Registered Electrical Contractor or their Representative discovers a safety or
non-compliance issue or issues in any such Electrical Installation or in an existing part of the electrical
installation that they are working in, and which is not covered by Annex 63B (Guidelines for Certification for
Alterations to Existing Installations) and where it is not possible to rectify this issue or issues on the day, a
Notice of Potential Hazard (N.O.H) must be issued to the person responsible for the electrical installation.

Sleeper12

Randyleprechaun wrote:

Faulty RCBO?

My money is on this

Randyleprechaun wrote:

Seen it once only before.

I see it on a weekly basis. Regular electricians see this so rarely that most dismiss it. Intermittent tripping is rarely the shower and when it is there is evidence of water in the shower.
Rule of thumb in shower repair is intermittent tripping change the rcbo

Stoner

Is the idea here that both showers are connected into the one 40A RCBO with the understanding that only one is used ?

So if both are used it trips,
And
If the RCBO is faulty then it's faulty for both, single point of failure.

Am I missing anything here? ie there is no change over?

Either way with all the looking at it that has gone on, could the original REC not just change the RCBO? Why would you arrive out with another REC?

I wouldn't go near it tbh. Sounds like huge potential for you to be on that list "disaster" contractors before you know it and maybe it's the client that's the single point of failure here.

Sleeper12

Stoner wrote:

I wouldn't go near it tbh. Sounds like huge potential for you to be on that list "disaster" contractors before you know it and maybe it's the client that's the single point of failure here.

What would you recommend? Would a priority board be enough or am I missing something else? Obviously none of us have seen it so we can't be 100% sure.

Stoner

Yeah I'm on guessing too. Regardless can the original REC not address the RCBO, or the other guy that was consulted?

It's not what's needed it's why it hasn't been done yet

wilser

Am going out to have a look next week, was asked to look at it cos the sparks(I don't know how competent or not he is) said that everything was ok on the electrical end.
When I talked to the householder about what was happening it sounded like an electrical fault with the trip switch.
I appreciate non of us have seen it but just wanted to put it out there to see was I wrong in putting it back on to the sparks.
The only reason I was bringing an electrician with me was because the original sparks isn't wanted and the second guy is away for a few weeks so it made sense for both trades to be there at the same time just so we weren't passing it back and forth.

Sleeper12

wilser wrote:

Am going out to have a look next week, was asked to look at it cos the sparks(I don't know how competent or not he is) said that everything was ok on the electrical end. When I talked to the householder about what was happening it sounded like an electrical fault with the trip switch. I appreciate non of us have seen it but just wanted to put it out there to see was I wrong in putting it back on to the sparks. The only reason I was bringing an electrician with me was because the original sparks isn't wanted and the second guy is away for a few weeks so it made sense for both trades to be there at the same time just so we weren't passing it back and forth.

I get this all the time. I had one electrician visit a flat twice and swear he'd tested the rcbo and it had to be the shower. I told the estate agent not to ask him what he thinks is wrong but to tell him just to replace the rcbo. I even said that I would pay if I was wrong. He replaced the rcbo and 6 months later guess what? Hasn't tripped since.
Doesn't always have to be the rcbo. Could be a damaged cable but my money is on rcbo

magicray

Rather than start a new thread I actually came on to ask for a guideline for a price to fit a switch for 2 electric showers, not sure but it may be called a priority switch
Would anyone be able to give me a rough idea of cost, I would be looking for supply and fit in Dublin

Thanks a mill and sorry for hijacking the thread

Sleeper12

magicray wrote:

Rather than start a new thread I actually came on to ask for a guideline for a price to fit a switch for 2 electric showers, not sure but it may be called a priority switch Would anyone be able to give me a rough idea of cost, I would be looking for supply and fit in Dublin

The priority switch costs 120/150 itself. Best thing is to ring a few RECs and get a price

magicray

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The priority switch costs 120/150 itself. Best thing is to ring a few RECs and get a price

Thanks Sleeper12, I asked one person and he quoted me around €400 for parts alone, would this sound right to you - I don't have a clue and don't want to be ripped off - unfortunately I don't know a local electrician

Sleeper12

magicray wrote:

Thanks Sleeper12, I asked one person and he quoted me around €400 for parts alone, would this sound right to you - I don't have a clue and don't want to be ripped off - unfortunately I don't know a local electrician

When we install a 2nd shower my REC charges arrived 120 for the priority switch. I had to get a triple switch made and it think that cost around 250.

magicray

Brilliant thanks for that, its great to have an idea of what to expect

slemon123

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I get this all the time. I had one electrician visit a flat twice and swear he'd tested the rcbo and it had to be the shower. I told the estate agent not to ask him what he thinks is wrong but to tell him just to replace the rcbo. I even said that I would pay if I was wrong. He replaced the rcbo and 6 months later guess what? Hasn't tripped since.
Doesn't always have to be the rcbo. Could be a damaged cable but my money is on rcbo

3 flipping years my showers have been tripping. Had 2 sparkies come and look at them and told me that the wiring was spot on as were the showers and to just use a lower temp in the shower. 3 friggin years of soap in my eyes and dashing down to the Garo box to put it back on. Sometimes it would trip when not even at home and nothing being used.
Anyway, I changed the RCBO and Hey Presto! nothing since thank god. P.S I used a Hager RCBO this time.

Bruthal

slemon123 wrote: »

3 flipping years my showers have been tripping. Had 2 sparkies come and look at them and told me that the wiring was spot on as were the showers and to just use a lower temp in the shower.

DIY enthusiast type diagnosis there.

Sleeper12

slemon123 wrote: »

3 flipping years my showers have been tripping. Had 2 sparkies come and look at them and told me that the wiring was spot on as were the showers and to just use a lower temp in the shower. 3 friggin years of soap in my eyes and dashing down to the Garo box to put it back on. Sometimes it would trip when not even at home and nothing being used.
Anyway, I changed the RCBO and Hey Presto! nothing since thank god. P.S I used a Hager RCBO this time.

General rule of thumb: if the shower trips instantly as you turn it on then it's most likely the shower at fault. If it trips intermittently then it's highly unlikely to be the shower. 99 percent of the time it's the RCBO. When we get a call for intermittent tripping I don't go out to look at the shower. I send the electrician to replace the RCBO