How much religion is there? What do non-Catholics do?

Kash

Hello! My LG will be starting at a rural, Catholic school in September. Though we are not Catholic, there isn't really any other option for us.

I have spoken to the headmaster and he has explained that because the school is so small, she will still physically be in the same room, though she will not have to partake or buy the book/do the homework etc. He did say that there is a daily prayer that she will be exposed to, and obviously they do prep for the sacraments. He also said that they will do all they can to facilitate her and work with us.

My husband comes from a country where religion and education are completely separate, and is very concerned that she is going to be indoctrinated against his wishes. I am trying to reassure him, but realise I know almost nothing about the religious education curriculum.

So, boardsies, share your wisdom! How much does religion feature in day to day primary school? How many hours a week? What is covered in the classes? Does religion impact other aspects of school life?

And for those with non-catholic kiddies in Catholic schools, what does your child do while the other kids have religion class? Any hints/tips?

Thanks a million!

Pawwed Rig

Unfortunately she will be subjected to intense religious instruction. Religion is prevalent throughout the school day and classes are subjected to regular visits from local priests (not necessarily just during religion time). Preparation for sacraments is a long drawn out process which will be difficult to avoid. In many schools there are also frequent visits to mass. My sis is in the same situation as you. All of her attempts to prevent religious instruction were rejected by the school.

Lady_North1

I've worked in a catholic primary school for 13 years. How much religion is dependent on the school. In the class I'm in we don't do daily prayers. I've only seen the priest come in to visit the 6th class once this year. We go to mass maybe 6 times a year and the non catholic children are accommodated by remaining in school with a teacher. During religion children generally do extra English or maths worksheets.
As I say, it depends on the school but I think it's unfair to say your child will be subject to intense religious instruction, as per previous post. Unless you know exactly which school the op is talking about, generalisation is unhelpful.

heldel00

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Unfortunately she will be subjected to intense religious instruction. Religion is prevalent throughout the school day and classes are subjected to regular visits from local priests (not necessarily just during religion time). Preparation for sacraments is a long drawn out process which will be difficult to avoid. In many schools there are also frequent visits to mass. My sis is in the same situation as you. All of her attempts to prevent religious instruction were rejected by the school.

This is completely dependant on the individual school. Your post is a bit dramatic and could be worrying for the OP. From what she has said the principal in this case seems to be accommodating of their requirements.
Example of my Senior Infant classroom - prayer before lunch, prayer before home time. Religion for 30 minutes once a week, if we have time for it. The curriculum is so jampacked, very few teachers will have the time to give a half hour each day to RE.
Have taught communion class before and it definitely is a busy week before First confession and another busy fortnight before First Communion but not drastically so. A lot of the prayers and prep work are sent home to be learned.

Keep in mind that if a cigire walks into your classroom it is not the Religion work they are demanding to see, it is the other 11 areas of the curriculum! As I said differs from school to school.

huskerdu

My non-Catholic kids have all gone to a Catholic primary school.

I was asked if they wanted the Religion text book. One of my kids, in the younger classes wanted the book, in other years not.

They are given worksheets to do during religion class. They participate in the school prayer services and christmas services. I am comfortable with that, as they are community events.

In the months running up to communion and confirmation, there was a lot of practicing hymns and practices in the church. My kids got through a lot of reading in 6th class

I would suggest that you make sure the get talking to the teacher early in the year and discuss what will happen in the classroom.

robbiezero

I agree with the premise that religion should be taken out of schools entirely, but I'm not seeing why there is so much drama from people about potential "indoctrination".
What do people expect will happen to their kid if they are exposed to this "indoctrination"?

I am mid-thirties and went to a rural Catholic school as did most of my peers and all of us would have been "victims" of the Catholic "indoctrination".
I cannot think of one person out of all my peers where this indoctrination had any impact on their lives any more than believing in Santa Claus had, and in our day the Catholic Church had much more power and respect and also much less information was available to us, so if anything it will have much less impact on modern kids.

_Brian

This is obviously a school to school thing. Our kids go to a rural school here in Cavan, 140 kids.
My youngest is in her Communion year getting her Communion next week.

She says they hardly do any religion at school, 30minutes on a Friday. They get no homework in religion bar I had to print two photographs and stick them in the front of her book. The priest has been in twice.
I flicked through her workbook for Communion and there was a bit of colouring of pictures but no sign of anything else being done much at all.

Hardliners will tell you the kids are being indoctrinated but I see no signs at all, it's taught in a passing way.

silverharp

depends on the school, Ive asked kids in 2 or 3 local schools how many classes they have and they all said basically 1 per week.

Kash

A pretty wide-ranging response there! I do have faith (puns always intended) that the school will be as accommodating as possible, the head master really seemed to be.

For the teachers, do you provide the extra work sheets in literacy/maths, or would I as a parent be involved? The reason I ask is that I would love for her to spend some time doing something like french (she's half french) or coding/animation, or something else productive that she shows an interest in. I have no idea how she will be at school but I was a 'swot' because I was way ahead in English/Maths and found these subjects really uninspiring until secondary school - I worry she will be the same!

Full Marx

Kash wrote: »

A pretty wide-ranging response there! I do have faith (puns always intended) that the school will be as accommodating as possible, the head master really seemed to be.

For the teachers, do you provide the extra work sheets in literacy/maths, or would I as a parent be involved? The reason I ask is that I would love for her to spend some time doing something like french (she's half french) or coding/animation, or something else productive that she shows an interest in. I have no idea how she will be at school but I was a 'swot' because I was way ahead in English/Maths and found these subjects really uninspiring until secondary school - I worry she will be the same!

Sorry but I lold at the idea of your child doing coding or animation or even French while others are doing religion. This will not happen, the best you can hope for is extra worksheets like maths. It is not fair to expect althea teacher in a Catholic school to teach and or correct work in a subject they do not teach for one student.
Personally I'd let tour kid take part I religion and just tell her it's rubbish. Otherwise when the other other kids are doing fun exercises in religion class they'd be stuck doing extra sums.

Kash

That's what I'm trying to say though, rather than having the teacher have to check it, I could have her set up on the likes of Duolingo or scratch, or anything else age appropriate. Most of these things are self-regulating so the teacher would actually not need to know the topic or check the work.

kandr10

I've had kids make ebooks during religion time, an incidentally, also during Irish as the same kid was exempt from both. It worked well other than when internet was required as the set up in our school is not ideal as far as internet goes. I'm sure we're not unique in that.

For coding, lightbot is a great starter, daisy dinosaur is for younger ones and hopscotch will build from that. You're right, the kids can pretty much work through them alone, but your child may or may not get help from the teacher depending on their level of expertise. If there is access to iPads in school I'm sure they'd facilitate. Depending on the schools policy, they may not be happy for your child to use her own.

To be honest, sometimes you have to squeeze school subjects in where you might not have planned. So for example, you find yourself with 20 mins to spare before lunch, it's a good opportunity to do a religion lesson. What I'm saying I suppose is that with the best of intentions, most teachers don't/ can't follow timetables to the letter. It's handy to have handouts ready in such instances in case set up is required on devices etc. A blend of both might be a good solution.

Talk to the teacher and voice your concerns. Discuss with them that your child might prefer to sit down while the others stand pray, whether they will attend mass or not, whether they will take part in any part of religion lessons (e.g.: discuss how you can show kindness is a good thing for all kids to do regardless of religion).

purplecow1977

As has been stated, the amount of religion that your child is exposed to depends on the school.
I am teaching Confirmation class this year and can safely say that other than the week of Confirmation, it wasn't that 'intense'! I had 4 students (out of 26) who did not make Confirmation and they completed other work during this time.

We have a daily morning prayer, but nothing else. I have one mass per year, held in our PE hall. The children who are not of RC religion: 2 are Christian and stand when we say prayers but don't join in. They attend the Mass if they want, and join in with songs, if they want. One is agnostic, and does not stand or join in - his choice. It is not a big deal.

I'm laughing at the thoughts of someone becoming indoctrinated - there are Catholic children 'learning' about religion for 8 years in the school who still can't bless themselves properly so I wouldn't worry about indoctrination!!!

I accept that some schools go a bit overboard with the religious aspects, but it is really entirely dependent on the school. With such an overloaded curriculum, I don't mind saying that my religious instruction time is decreased to allow for increased Literacy and Numeracy.

Regarding priest visits, he doesn't come that frequently and stays only 5/10 minutes. It seems he only visits 6th class and 2nd class. He organised to do Confession before Easter in the classroom at the back but nobody was forced to go.

If children are exempt from Irish, they still stay in the room when I do Irish, but they complete other work.
Same for Religion.

heldel00

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I'm laughing at the thoughts of someone becoming indoctrinated - there are Catholic children 'learning' about religion for 8 years in the school who still can't bless themselves properly so I wouldn't worry about indoctrination!!!

This is hilariously true.
Trying to get them to genuflect is another "pull your hair out" moment!

Moonbeam

My kids do religion but are opted out of communion.
In 2nd class they seem to do about an hour of religion a day,we were not allowed to give them a project or anything to do but they are allowed to read books sometimes,other times the teacher feels that it is not respecting her religion.
On the days they go to mass which is nearly every week coming up to communion they are gone from the school for 2-3 hours,they do usually go to the playground too though.
I will be so glad when this school year is over.

purplecow1977

Moonbeam wrote: »

My kids do religion but are opted out of communion.
In 2nd class they seem to do about an hour of religion a day,we were not allowed to give them a project or anything to do but they are allowed to read books sometimes,other times the teacher feels that it is not respecting her religion.
On the days they go to mass which is nearly every week coming up to communion they are gone from the school for 2-3 hours,they do usually go to the playground too though.
I will be so glad when this school year is over.

I think with Communion there's probably more practices done but by Confirmation they 'know' where to stand, how to do the readings etc so there's definitely not as much.

Why were you not allowed to give them a project?

Are you being serious that the teacher feelings it is not respecting her religion?! Is this an older teacher?! Surely everyone recognises that our classrooms are very diverse places now?!

Moonbeam

There are only 2 kids not making communion(out of 62) and an extremely catholic teacher, she is absolutely lovely and otherwise a great teacher.

byhookorbycrook

Moonbeam wrote: »

My kids do religion but are opted out of communion.
In 2nd class they seem to do about an hour of religion a day,we were not allowed to give them a project or anything to do but they are allowed to read books sometimes,other times the teacher feels that it is not respecting her religion.
On the days they go to mass which is nearly every week coming up to communion they are gone from the school for 2-3 hours,they do usually go to the playground too though.
I will be so glad when this school year is over.

Good grief, the allocated time for religion is 30 minutes per day, how on earth does this woman intend to cover the curriculum? And why on earth is she personalising it to be about her?
I'm glad to say this is very much the exception .

Moonbeam

It is , I would be happy to move to a secular country for the rest of their schooling at this stage.
I am not too bothered by them being taught religion, I let her play music in the church folk group if she is with her dad, I just wish they learned about all religions and gods etc

private

My daughters class had their communion yesterday and 1/3 of the class didn't make communion. This is in a Gaelscoil with no non nationals. I wasn't bothered about my child being exposed to RE as what children learn at home is the major influence. It's a Catholic school and its not their fault they're a Catholic school. It's the governments fault resources aren't available for the children not doing their communion who chose or have no choice but to attend a religious school.
It was funny actually as the kids were exposed to the views of the atheist parents, and the few religious parents, the cultural catholics. The children were mouthing off about their parents beliefs to each other!

Mink

Moonbeam, that definitely is a bit extreme. But if you're more than happy with her as a teacher, that's the more important thing.

private wrote: »

My daughters class had their communion yesterday and 1/3 of the class didn't make communion. This is in a Gaelscoil with no non nationals. I wasn't bothered about my child being exposed to RE as what children learn at home is the major influence.

My lad is starting in a Gaelscoil in Sept and it seems to be "interdenominational" and it looks like most are.

We're not Christian, he's not baptised so Communion off the cards. We chose the school mainly because it's not specifically Catholic, or Protestant or anything. There's no ET near us. So this seemed a happy medium. We then really fell in love with the school & the ethos when we went for an open day.

I don't mind him being in religion classes while others prep for Communion, confirmation etc. As posters above said the chances of him being indoctrinated as a Catholic are slim and we will deal with any questions as it comes up.

Grawns

Mink wrote: »

Moonbeam, that definitely is a bit extreme. But if you're more than happy with her as a teacher, that's the more important thing.



My lad is starting in a Gaelscoil in Sept and it seems to be "interdenominational" and it looks like most are.

We're not Christian, he's not baptised so Communion off the cards. We chose the school mainly because it's not specifically Catholic, or Protestant or anything. There's no ET near us. So this seemed a happy medium. We then really fell in love with the school & the ethos when we went for an open day.

I don't mind him being in religion classes while others prep for Communion, confirmation etc. As posters above said the chances of him being indoctrinated as a Catholic are slim and we will deal with any questions as it comes up.

That's my experience and has it been very positive. We are moving and I'm nervous about the new school but my husband is protestant and I'm an atheist so I will continue to direct all questions to him. �� Some parents were annoyed by the communion rigmarole but these days I'm tolerant because of my husbands beliefs.

Kash

kandr10 wrote: »

For coding, lightbot is a great starter, daisy dinosaur is for younger ones and hopscotch will build from that.

Thanks for these recommendations, these look pretty cool!

A huge thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. My husband was freaking out a bit, but has been largely reassured that his child is not about to be brainwashed. I think the moral of the story is to talk to her teacher and ensure we can all sing from the same hymn sheet. I really hope they allow her to do something that will keep her interest - we'll find out in September

kandr10

Kash wrote: »

Thanks for these recommendations, these look pretty cool!

A huge thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. My husband was freaking out a bit, but has been largely reassured that his child is not about to be brainwashed. I think the moral of the story is to talk to her teacher and ensure we can all sing from the same hymn sheet. I really hope they allow her to do something that will keep her interest - we'll find out in September

Lol, do you want her singing hymns?

uck51js9zml2yt

From my own experience and that of my family...they wont grow horns by being in RE class.


Mine is in senior infants and takes part in class. when it comes to communion i'll pull him from the class and the school will work with him in the library.

We were given 3 choices, do the class, stay in the class and draw or go to a different room. Staying in the class , they will absorb everything anyway. My nieces came home reciting all their prayers !! It didnt kill them.

Kash

Walter Easy User wrote: »

From my own experience and that of my family...they wont grow horns by being in RE class.


Mine is in senior infants and takes part in class. when it comes to communion i'll pull him from the class and the school will work with him in the library.

We were given 3 choices, do the class, stay in the class and draw or go to a different room. Staying in the class , they will absorb everything anyway. My nieces came home reciting all their prayers !! It didnt kill them.

Ah, I don't think he thinks it will damage her in any way, he just has no experience of religion being so closely entwined with school. My main concern is that I don't want to openly disagree with what she is being taught; I can remember my rather contrary dad disagreeing with my primary school teacher (not religion, but english, I think) and it used to make me very confused and often upset.

The absorption is happening already and she's not even in school - she told me the other day that god was the boss of everyone because he made everyone. And she has to be nice to animals and bugs because they are all 'god-creatures.' She definitely doesn't get that from home, but at her age, I think they believe everything they are told.

robbiezero

Kash wrote: »

Ah, I don't think he thinks it will damage her in any way, he just has no experience of religion being so closely entwined with school. My main concern is that I don't want to openly disagree with what she is being taught; I can remember my rather contrary dad disagreeing with my primary school teacher (not religion, but english, I think) and it used to make me very confused and often upset.

The absorption is happening already and she's not even in school - she told me the other day that god was the boss of everyone because he made everyone. And she has to be nice to animals and bugs because they are all 'god-creatures.' She definitely doesn't get that from home, but at her age, I think they believe everything they are told.

This is just dreadful. What next - she will be honoring her father and mother, treating others as you would like them to treat you. You must put a stop to this at once.

Pawwed Rig

robbiezero wrote: »

This is just dreadful. What next - she will be honoring her father and mother, treating others as you would like them to treat you. You must put a stop to this at once.

Accepting on face value outrageous claims with her critical evaluation being actively suppressed

robbiezero

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Accepting on face value outrageous claims with her critical evaluation being actively suppressed

Like Santa Claus?

Kash

Kash wrote: »

The absorption is happening already and she's not even in school - she told me the other day that god was the boss of everyone because he made everyone. And she has to be nice to animals and bugs because they are all 'god-creatures.' She definitely doesn't get that from home, but at her age, I think they believe everything they are told.

robbiezero wrote: »

This is just dreadful. What next - she will be honoring her father and mother, treating others as you would like them to treat you. You must put a stop to this at once.

Yes, because the Catholic faith has such a stellar reputation when it comes to treating others.

My point, which may have cast a shadow as it flew overhead, is that she believes whatever she is told. Consequently, I try to tell her the truth (Santa and fairies being the one exception - but one I struggled with.) I do not tell her she should not be cruel because god says so. I explain the consequences and the impact of being cruel/kind. She doesn't like to see something hurt or someone sad and never enjoys being the cause. But my way allows me to explain why I might kill a wasp but never a bee. There's a logic to it that she can follow and extrapolate from.

She knows that I do not believe in god, but in much the same way that I would not want Catholicism rammed down her throat, I do not enforce my atheistic views either. As she says herself "I believe in everything!" And she does, from fairies to angels, god to Santa Claus, dragons to talking animals. My husband and I are both fine with that. I think they'll all phase out naturally in time as her mental acuity and reasoning ability matures. If not, well then I see some spirited debates in our future, once she's up to the challenge

Kash

robbiezero wrote: »

Like Santa Claus?

Exactly like Santa Claus. The difference between God and the other all-knowing, miracle-producing benefactor is that a child's unwavering belief in Santa Claus dies out naturally at around the same time Catholicism tries to cement that same child's belief in God.

robbiezero

Kash wrote: »

Exactly like Santa Claus. The difference God and the other all-knowing, miracle-producing benefactor is that a child's unwavering belief in Santa Claus dies out naturally at around the same time Catholicism tries to cement that same child's belief in God.

And the Catholicism nonsense will die out very shortly after having made as much impact on her as belief in Santa Claus.

Pawwed Rig

I presume anyone here who claims religion is no harm would have no problem sending their child to a muslim school??

Kash

robbiezero wrote: »

And the Catholicism nonsense will die out very shortly after having made as much impact on her as belief in Santa Claus.

Kash wrote: »

YAs she says herself "I believe in everything!" And she does, from fairies to angels, god to Santa Claus, dragons to talking animals. My husband and I are both fine with that. I think they'll all phase out naturally in time

Look at that now, we agree!

robbiezero

Kash wrote: »

Look at that now, we agree!

Yes we do at a certain level. I fully agree that the ideal is for religion to be taken out of schools altogether.
Where I differ is the level of impact a Catholic school will have on a child regarding religion.
Your daughter sounds like a smart kid, she won't be long figuring it out for herself.
Catholic school or not she will be exposed to the existence/non-existence of a God and will have to make up her own mind on that anyway.

robbiezero

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I presume anyone here who claims religion is no harm would have no problem sending their child to a muslim school??

I would have no problem sending my child to a religious school where I would be confident the religion being taught would have little or no impact on the child. Not sure if that would be the case for a Muslim school, don't know enough about them.

Pawwed Rig

robbiezero wrote: »

I would have no problem sending my child to a religious school where I would be confident the religion being taught would have little or no impact on the child. Not sure if that would be the case for a Muslim school, don't know enough about them.

Little or no impact? I challenge you to find one Irish person who will honestly say that religion has had 'little or no impact' on them.

freshpopcorn

I finished primary school in 2005. We never did much religion to be honest. We basically coloured pictures and read a few nice caring stories.(Basically stories saying to be nice to one another) and the nativity. The priest called in the odd time to say Hi and after 2nd class he might call in Confession maybe once a year if you wanted it. The odd teacher might relies they needed to finish the book and they'd do a few pages and light a candle. We never spent ages on Religion.
Their was never talk about divorce, abortions, gay people, sex outside of marriage being wrong. It was just basically be nice to one another. I know teachers not and it seems to be the same.

robbiezero

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Little or no impact? I challenge you to find one Irish person who will honestly say that religion has had 'little or no impact' on them.

I should have specified "negative impact". And in that case no one I know under 50 years of age.

pwurple

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Little or no impact? I challenge you to find one Irish person who will honestly say that religion has had 'little or no impact' on them.

Ah now, challenge accepted, and here I am.

I find the ceremonial aspects useful, dealing with death in particular, and I have an interest in ethics, which stems from religious debates in school, but otherwise consider myself a non-practicing catholic after my fully immersive catholic school upbringing.

My kids attend COI, we participate in church events for both COI and Catholic. We do some Jewish bits and pieces and the odd Dharmic religious event with extended family / friends if invited. Whatever's going generally, and if there's food at it, even better.

I'm generally happy to have that deeper understanding of our cultural heritage and how the Catholic perspective has influenced our political landscape, our arts and history.