Explain hybrids to an idiot

DrPhilG

The idiot in question may be me, or it may be my father...

He's 83 and wants to change from the crapheap oul Dacia he bought in a fit of stupidity a few years back!

He's greatly enamoured by my Leaf, but it wouldn't suit him as he simply wouldn't cope with public charging and he probably would need that at some point.

I've never actually driven a hybrid, or have any clue about how they work. Do you switch manually from battery to engine? Just how economic are they? Any suggestions?

My dad does about 16k km a year and has always (out of habit as much as anything) driven a diesel. He does need to be able to pull a small trailer as he still keeps a few sheep etc.

He's been looking at a Hyundai i20 to switch to as he hears great things about Hyundai but I was wondering if a hybrid might meet his needs and be a bit more green in the process.

The Ioniq hybrid would be too pricey though, lol.

To being able to take a tow bar is essential. Beyond that the priorities are:
*Smaller the better, parking is his enemy
*Cheap to run, both in servicing and fuel economy
*Decent spec, but not too complex

BoatMad

as he simply wouldn't cope with public charging

why , he cant lift the plug up and press two buttons ??

2nd hand BEV , if hes doing small to medium mileage would be suitable

Hybrids are a waste of money

Casati

DrPhilG wrote: »

The idiot in question may be me, or it may be my father...

He's 83 and wants to change from the crapheap oul Dacia he bought in a fit of stupidity a few years back!

He's greatly enamoured by my Leaf, but it wouldn't suit him as he simply wouldn't cope with public charging and he probably would need that at some point.

I've never actually driven a hybrid, or have any clue about how they work. Do you switch manually from battery to engine? Just how economic are they? Any suggestions?

My dad does about 16k km a year and has always (out of habit as much as anything) driven a diesel. He does need to be able to pull a small trailer as he still keeps a few sheep etc.

He's been looking at a Hyundai i20 to switch to as he hears great things about Hyundai but I was wondering if a hybrid might meet his needs and be a bit more green in the process.

The Ioniq hybrid would be too pricey though, lol.

To being able to take a tow bar is essential. Beyond that the priorities are:
*Smaller the better, parking is his enemy
*Cheap to run, both in servicing and fuel economy
*Decent spec, but not too complex

I'd really like know if you can stick a toe bar on an EV like a Leaf or indeed on a plug in like a 330e. This might be the first stumbling block your father has, does anybody know for sure?

BoatMad

Casati wrote: »

I'd really like know if you can stick a toe bar on an EV like a Leaf or indeed on a plug in like a 330e. This might be the first stumbling block your father has, does anybody know for sure?

cant tow with a Leaf

My dad does about 16k km a year and has always (out of habit as much as anything) driven a diesel. He does need to be able to pull a small trailer as he still keeps a few sheep etc.

Then a nice small diesel is the car for him . Hes not doing enough mileage to seriously make any savings from a BEV or urban driving that might suit a Hybrid

IN fact a small petrol would be even better , more reliable, less to go wrong and less expensive then a diesel

DrPhilG

BoatMad wrote: »

why , he cant lift the plug up and press two buttons ??

He's 83 and easily confused by new tech.

So no, I'm fairly sure he wouldn't manage the public charging network, and he would get very anxious in the event of a charger being blocked or broken.

Full EV simply isn't an option. He wants another diesel, I'm wondering if a hybrid might be a step in the right direction.

DrPhilG

Fuel economy is a big selling point for him so if a hybrid would give much better mpg then it would probably help him see beyond the extra pence per litre for petrol at the pump.

Manion

BoatMad wrote: »

cant tow with a Leaf



Then a nice small diesel is the car for him . Hes not doing enough mileage to seriously make any savings from a BEV or urban driving that might suit a Hybrid

IN fact a small petrol would be even better , more reliable, less to go wrong and less expensive then a diesel

I'm not a car person, but a small diesel doesn't make sense given the DPF on newer model diesels.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056701866

My mileage has drastically dropped over the last year, hence why I browse this forum.

Soarer

A little T-Spirit Yaris hybrid from the UK would suit him down to the ground. Got one for the in-laws last year, and they love it. Don't know about a tow bar though.

Something like this little yoke.

BoatMad

DrPhilG wrote: »

Fuel economy is a big selling point for him so if a hybrid would give much better mpg then it would probably help him see beyond the extra pence per litre for petrol at the pump.

perhaps ( and I am being genuine ) , you might educate him to the TCO ( total cost of ownership ) and try and move him a way from the incredible Irish phenonium of not adding the euros in his left pocket to the ones in his right

a hybrid ( which will be petrol ) will be expensive and the difference in price over a suitable modern petrol will never be recovered with the small mileage hes doing

DrPhilG

BoatMad wrote: »

perhaps ( and I am being genuine ) , you might educate him to the TCO ( total cost of ownership ) and try and move him a way from the incredible Irish phenonium of not adding the euros in his left pocket to the ones in his right

Do you have elderly relatives, lol? You don't seem to grasp the joys of dealing with very old, very stubborn people!

We've been working on him for 5 years and 2 cars to get away from diesel.

The old farmer mentality is strong.

DrPhilG

However having looked at the price of the Prius, I agree that there's not a hope in hell he'll go for one, nor should he. The payback time over a petrol or diesel is longer than he probably has left.

BoatMad

DrPhilG wrote: »

Do you have elderly relatives, lol? You don't seem to grasp the joys of dealing with very old, very stubborn people!

We've been working on him for 5 years and 2 cars to get away from diesel.

The old farmer mentality is strong.

believe you me, I understand the issues , we all have these people !!!!.

The fact is , any sane discussion has to include TCO ,

otherwise just extract yourself from the discussion , telling him , "sure that diesel is grand for you" and slip quietly away .

DrPhilG

BoatMad wrote: »

just extract yourself from the discussion , telling him , "sure that diesel is grand for you" and slip quietly away .

The last time that happened he bought a brand new Dacia Sandero because "it's cheap".

Yeah, cheap crap! A year later he's sick of it.

bp_me

DrPhilG wrote: »

My dad does about 16k km a year and has always (out of habit as much as anything) driven a diesel. He does need to be able to pull a small trailer as he still keeps a few sheep etc.

Aside from anything else this is the big one here.

The older toyota hybrids (1.5 and the 1.8 in the previous auris and prius) are not meant to pull a trailer.

The new Prius has this capability. I presume as does the CH-R but you would have to check with toyota on that. Im not sure which gearbox it got.

Outside of Toyota you could look at the Kia Niro but again Im not sure if you can pull anything that. As it's not using a CVT I presume it can.

BoatMad

DrPhilG wrote: »

The last time that happened he bought a brand new Dacia Sandero because "it's cheap".

Yeah, cheap crap! A year later he's sick of it.

personally Id have " slipped away " from "this " type of discussion long ago, " Theres no telling some people "

gctest50

BoatMad wrote: »

cant tow with a Leaf

.........

no-one told this little leaf it couldn't

BoatMad

gctest50 wrote: »

no-one told this little leaf it couldn't

we, engineers , get to do things , that ordinary mortals dont, simples

Yeah, but just shows how good the electric drive is. Imagine pulling 4+ tons with the 1.5 diesel Pulsar flat or not. The clutch wouldn't know what hit it.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

Yeah, but just shows how good the electric drive is. Imagine pulling 4+ tons with the 1.5 diesel Pulsar flat or not. The clutch wouldn't know what hit it.

but of course , all electric motors are way better then the 19th century bag o bolts that is an ICE, the magic of ICE is a calorific value of hydrocarbons, not the inefficient heat engine

Casati

BoatMad wrote: »

cant tow with a Leaf


I presume you can tow with other E.Vs ?

BoatMad

Casati wrote: »

BoatMad wrote: »

cant tow with a Leaf


I presume you can tow with other E.Vs ?

no , with the exception of on for two where it has been designed in

its largely a function of handling the excess heat generated

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

the magic of ICE is a calorific value of hydrocarbons

Magic of ICE? I'd have thought the dirty little secret of EV is the lack of calorific value of the charge in the battery

gctest50

You could always get the Lidl sabre saw out and make a pickup out it

Sheep be happy sailing along in silence

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Magic of ICE? I'd have thought the dirty little secret of EV is the lack of calorific value of the charge in the battery

indeed it is, the great advantage in the electric motor , its secret shame is the poor performance of its batteries

However battery tech is expected to match hydrocarbons within 10 years , so its only a here and now issue

cros13

Can I suggest this:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201703223545728

I know it's a diesel but it's got a plug, a bit of electric range for the trips around town and can tow up to 1.8 tons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHqyrR_Chc

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Can I suggest this:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201703223545728

I know it's a diesel but it's got a plug, a bit of electric range for the trips around town and can tow up to 1.8 tons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlHqyrR_Chc

and starts at 53K , somehow , just somehow , I dont think the " old farmer mentality" is going to go for that !!!! :pac::pac::pac:

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

and starts at 53K , somehow , just somehow , I dont think the " old farmer mentality" is going to go for that !!!! :pac::pac::pac:

Oh, I'd be talking a used one from the UK. High mileage doesn't matter as much 'cause the ICE motor wouldn't have anywhere near the equivalent operating hours of a pure ICE.
Landed after the VRT for less than €20k.
A lot less if you challenge the ridiculous OMSP (€41,226 for a 2013 with almost 130,000km on it?). Here's a few bits of evidence to start you on that process: http://www.carzone.ie/search/result/cars/make/volvo/model/v60/fuel-type/hybrid/fuel-type/unspecified

I'm from farming people and I have most of the extended family on plugs. Leafs, i3s, outlanders and these V60s.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Oh, I'd be talking a used one from the UK. High mileage doesn't matter as much 'cause the ICE motor wouldn't have anywhere near the equivalent operating hours of a pure ICE.
Landed after the VRT for less than €20k.
A lot less if you challenge the ridiculous OMSP (€41,226 for a 2013 with almost 130,000km on it?). Here's a few bits of evidence to start you on that process: http://www.carzone.ie/search/result/cars/make/volvo/model/v60/fuel-type/hybrid/fuel-type/unspecified

I'm from farming people and I have most of the extended family on plugs. Leafs, i3s, outlanders and these V60s.

still makes no sense

a reasonable medium petrol is his best bet , cheap, reliable , easy to service , running costs at 16km are irrelevant

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

still makes no sense

a reasonable medium petrol is his best bet , cheap, reliable , easy to service , running costs at 16km are irrelevant

Sure... but I'm suggesting a way to wean him onto a plug, not arguing TCO.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Sure... but I'm suggesting a way to wean him onto a plug, not arguing TCO.

why ? surely brass in pocket is the object . or has he expressed eco-fanatic views or something , has he started growing the Guardian online or something !!:P

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Sure... but I'm suggesting a way to wean him onto a plug, not arguing TCO.

why ? surely brass in pocket is the object . or has he expressed eco-fanatic views or something , has he started browsing the Guardian online or something !!:P

Markcheese

What's BEV Stand for??
. What's the cheapest you'd pick a leaf up for (realistically) and sort of range battery condition would an older electric have at this stage?

BoatMad

Markcheese wrote: »

What's BEV Stand for??
. What's the cheapest you'd pick a leaf up for (realistically) and sort of range battery condition would an older electric have at this stage?

Battery electric vehicle, a true non-ICE

BoatMad

. What's the cheapest you'd pick a leaf up for (realistically) and sort of range battery condition would an older electric have at this stage?

10K is probably the lowest reasonable price, and its getting hard to find cars at that level as the supply from the Uk slows

range is likely to be at 80% of original , so around 100km , 80 km usable

Markcheese

Thanks, I'm 70km from work (and it's a fast road) so close to the edge of its range...

ELM327

Markcheese wrote: »

Thanks, I'm 70km from work (and it's a fast road) so close to the edge of its range...

You'd have no issue getting 70km out of a leaf.
I've done more than 70km at "legal speeds" with AC on full on the motorway.

Markcheese

ELM327 wrote:

You'd have no issue getting 70km out of a leaf. I've done more than 70km at "legal speeds" with AC on full on the motorway.

Yeah but if I'm buying an older leaf, doing 70km motorway speeds, charging at work to come home again it doesn't leave much scope for battery fade..
. . And yes I could occasionally do an emergency fast charge on the way home (bit of a pain especially if I have to go looking for a working charger) but that's not an option at 4 or 5 am on my way to work while slightly late already

goz83

Markcheese wrote: »

Yeah but if I'm buying an older leaf, doing 70km motorway speeds, charging at work to come home again it doesn't leave much scope for battery fade..
. . And yes I could occasionally do an emergency fast charge on the way home (bit of a pain especially if I have to go looking for a working charger) but that's not an option at 4 or 5 am on my way to work while slightly late already

There are 1.5 Gens for sale for under €8k that are battery owned. Battery health would be above 90% so you would comfortably get 100klms out of a charge.

Here's an example

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201704254769279

Victor Meldrew

I recently went hybrid. Economy is a bit better than Diesel if you drive it like a Diesel. The better mpg requires turning economical driving into a sport. And then, only in urban environments. So, if that, plus really smooth driving experience in an Automatic are priorities, plus not wanting to emit NOx or deal with DPF's and Ad Blue, then great.

As to OP, at 83 years, change is not good. stick with a small diesel golf/focus / auris.

xl500

DrPhilG wrote: »

He's 83 and easily confused by new tech.
.

Just to say those two statements dont go together I know lots of old people that are very tech savvy So being 83 should be no Barrier to an EV but being confused by Tech maybe

Anyway at 16K a year a Diesel makes no sense but he may just want one for me a small petrol would fit the bill lower maint higher reliabilty