North ring road section to alleviate HGV challenged by protesters.

catbear

A LEGAL CHALLENGE taken against An Bord Plean?la?s decision to approve a proposed road development near Kilkenny City has been referred to the Courts of Justice of the European Union.
Justice Richard Humphreys said he was referring the case to the Luxembourg-based CJEU for clarification of certain aspects of European Directives concerning the conservation of natural habitats and of flora and fauna.
The case concerns a development, known as the Kilkenny Northern Ring Road Extension, via which the board gave Kilkenny County Council permission to construct a 1.5km section of road in July 2014.
It is part of an overall project designed to improve transport links and keep HGV vehicles out of the centre of the medieval city.

Complete the ringroad was a rallying cry for the CAS protestors, you lost the battle but come win the war!

Support your county council to win what you protested for!

Or was that whole protest thing just a fad?

road_high

catbear wrote: »

Complete the ringroad was a rallying cry for the CAS protestors, you lost the battle but come win the war!

Support your county council to win what you protested for!

Or was that whole protest thing just a fad?

Rent a mob/ anarchy types with too much time on their hands. These people protest all development on the grounds of anti capitalism or trendy "environmentalism". While they cheerfully live off the state and system they dispise.
I'd have finished the ring Road too but apparently it was a different funding stream and the northern ring is way down the pecking order for funding.
It's built, ready now lets move on. It opens up two large brownfield sites for development. Bring it on.

catbear

I bet they're dusting off their "Complete the Ring Road Banners" right now!

Maybe they'll picket these ring road objectors like they did the bridge works.

edit to add: the campaign to finish the ring road is still active, they really need to get behind the council now and show these objectors that the people won't be bullied out of their ring road!
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=campaign%20to%20complete%20kilkenny%20ring%20road

Captain Havoc

Is it possible it's land owners and/or businesses challenging this? I know I wouldn't be happy with my farm being split even with a generous compulsory purchase. Also some businesses such as the two Topaz on the Comer road would be affected.

catbear

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Is it possible it's land owners and/or businesses challenging this? I know I wouldn't be happy with my farm being split even with a generous compulsory purchase. Also some businesses such as the two Topaz on the Comer road would be affected.

Petrol stations? Seriously.

If that were a thing every small town petrol station and chippers would have stopped the motorways being built.

Nah, this is probably a few wealthy individuals exhausting every loophole to protect their freshford road Elysium from being tainted by the common people. Some right nobs put that way.

Farmers will be compensated and accommodated as with the motorways.

Captain Havoc

catbear wrote: »

Petrol stations? Seriously.

If that were a thing every small town petrol station and chippers would have stopped the motorways being built.
.

There's nothing to stop them appealing and slowing the process down. If it was put back by a year, that would be huge revenue.

catbear

Captain Havoc wrote: »

There's nothing to stop them appealing and slowing the process down. If it was put back by a year, that would be huge revenue.

Well if you read the piece you'd see the objection seems to focusing on environmental issues.

However as we know people will attach whatever significance that suits their bias.

Captain Havoc

catbear wrote: »

Well if you read the piece you'd see the objection seems to focusing on environmental issues.

However as we know people will attach whatever significance that suits their bias.

I was aware the objection was based on environmental issues but the means justifies the result.

nootroc

The opening of the Kilcullen to Carlow section of the M9 was delayed til after Christmas to placate a petrol station owner. if memory serves.

catbear

nootroc wrote: »

The opening of the Kilcullen to Carlow section of the M9 was delayed til after Christmas to placate a petrol station owner. if memory serves.

Nah, I remember that. He asked but was't entertained.

The best thing about that it was that the station is in Crookstown!

Anyway business is the reason for the objection then surely Brannigans, Chancellors Mills and that quarry out the Freshford rd would have as much reason to support it.

Plus better access to the hospital for the Comer Road side is a social priority.

No, the Anti-CAS protesters were right. Can't wait till they organise a picket who the objectors.

fg1406

I know some involved in the last protest and I agreed with it too. The ring road extension should have been given priority and it should be completed as soon as possible. That said the completion of the full "ring" around Kilkenny should be done in a cohesive manner taking into account all impacts on the locality including environmental. The manner in which the CAS bridge was bulldozed through and the way the locals living immediately adjacent to the works were dealt with by the council and the contractors was dreadful. This is a chance to build something needed to help the town, in a manner keeping with best practice

catbear

fg1406 wrote: »

This is a chance to build something needed to help the town, in a manner keeping with best practice

If there was a problem then why didn't objections to CAS go as far as as the objections to completing the ringroad?

Surely the pro ringroad protestors could use this argument against these objectors.

DickoHara

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Is it possible it's land owners and/or businesses challenging this? I know I wouldn't be happy with my farm being split even with a generous compulsory purchase. Also some businesses such as the two Topaz on the Comer road would be affected.

How would the two topaz on the Comer road be affected , some of these objections are funny didn't your man out in Threecastles work out all right after all his objecting he got a new wall his cattle were allways out on the road.

fg1406

I don't know what the objections are to completing the north section of the ring road as I've literally just glanced at what was on kclr post today. If there is a genuine environmental issue then yes the route should be reconsidered and a potential alternative route looked at. It's a chance to have a properly inclusive planning process here, and it shouldn't be wasted. The Cas bridge was from the 70s and was outdated long before it came into fruition. The planning concerns were overlooked and there was no meaningful consultation with local residents. This is something Kilkenny county council can do now with the ring road

catbear

fg1406 wrote: »

It's a chance to have a properly inclusive planning process here, and it shouldn't be wasted.

There were inclusive planning consultations for CAS, ask Malcom Noonan or the guy from the Kilkenny Archeaology company. They spoke back in december 09 at the public meetings held in the Ormond hotel that were advertised widely. It was advertised on the radio and in the paper, notices were put in letterboxes in the affected areas.

It was all very frank open questioning but there were maybe 4 or 5 members of the public there any time I attended. I went out of curiosity but there certainly no protestors there or anyone getting hot and bothered.

Of course this was before protesting became a fad again.

fg1406

I don't know what the objections are to completing the north section of the ring road as I've literally just glanced at what was on kclr post today. If there is a genuine environmental issue then yes the route should be reconsidered and a potential alternative route looked at. It's a chance to have a properly inclusive planning process here, and it shouldn't be wasted. The Cas bridge was from the 70s and was outdated long before it came into fruition. The planning concerns were overlooked and there was no meaningful consultation with local residents. This is something Kilkenny county council can do now with the ring road

catbear

Ok, since we're playing repeat the post I'll play along too.

fg1406 wrote: »

It's a chance to have a properly inclusive planning process here, and it shouldn't be wasted.

There were inclusive planning consultations for CAS, ask Malcom Noonan or the guy from the Kilkenny Archeaology company. They spoke back in december 09 at the public meetings held in the Ormond hotel that were advertised widely. It was advertised on the radio and in the paper, notices were put in letterboxes in the affected areas.

It was all very frank open questioning but there were maybe 4 or 5 members of the public there any time I attended. I went out of curiosity but there certainly no protestors there or anyone getting hot and bothered.

Of course this was before protesting became a fad again.

fg1406

I wasn't living in Kilkenny in 2009 and I have never protested about anything in my life, ever so I cannot comment on what happened in 09 or on whether protesting was ever in vogue or not.

I can only comment on my neighbours experiences with both at planning and build stage, my own experiences with elected representatives at lobbying stage and my own qualifications in engineering and planning.

catbear

fg1406 wrote: »

I wasn't living in Kilkenny in 2009 and I have never protested about anything in my life, ever so I cannot comment on what happened in 09 or on whether protesting was ever in vogue or not.

I can only comment on my neighbours experiences with both at planning and build stage, my own experiences with elected representatives at lobbying stage and my own qualifications in engineering and planning.

Well fine, but I would urge you you check with councilor Noonen that there was in fact an open consultation forum about CAS held in the Ormonde hotel in 09, I think it might have been in November.

It is a lie that that there wasn't and I don't believe Malcolm is involved in the spread of the lie that there wasn't but seeing as people are so easily taken in it would be best if those who were there ensure that this lie is rubbished.

Captain Havoc

catbear wrote: »

Well fine, but I would urge you you check with councilor Noonen that there was in fact an open consultation forum about CAS held in the Ormonde hotel in 09, I think it might have been in November.

It is a lie that that there wasn't and I don't believe Malcolm is involved in the spread of the lie that there wasn't but seeing as people are so easily taken in it would be best if those who were there ensure that this lie is rubbished.

First public consultation I saw was in '07 in the Rivercourt.

road_high

catbear wrote: »

Well fine, but I would urge you you check with councilor Noonen that there was in fact an open consultation forum about CAS held in the Ormonde hotel in 09, I think it might have been in November.

It is a lie that that there wasn't and I don't believe Malcolm is involved in the spread of the lie that there wasn't but seeing as people are so easily taken in it would be best if those who were there ensure that this lie is rubbished.

Noonan is surely head honcho whiner- I'm sure he's a nice person but all I ever hear or see from his constant negativity about any planned development at all, particularly if its shock horror, privately profit driven. It's a shame he doesnt spend as much time promoting kilkenny from a business and tourism angle instead of trying to block everything that may be planned.

road_high

catbear wrote: »

Ok, since we're playing repeat the post I'll play along too.


There were inclusive planning consultations for CAS, ask Malcom Noonan or the guy from the Kilkenny Archeaology company. They spoke back in december 09 at the public meetings held in the Ormond hotel that were advertised widely. It was advertised on the radio and in the paper, notices were put in letterboxes in the affected areas.

It was all very frank open questioning but there were maybe 4 or 5 members of the public there any time I attended. I went out of curiosity but there certainly no protestors there or anyone getting hot and bothered.

Of course this was before protesting became a fad again.

The Water cult, "homelessness" etc are all one in the same as it's the same fruit loops that held up the CAS, costing the taxpayer (an alien concept to these people) a fortune in hold ups and legal fees.

catbear

Well I'd to see them get enraged at these objectors to the ring road, unless as suspected they are one and the same.

road_high

catbear wrote: »

Well I'd to see them get enraged at these objectors to the ring road, unless as suspected they are one and the same.

Course they are...they're serial objectors/anarchists. None of them work or do anything remotely productive so plenty of time to conjure up rubbish to protest about.

Mankbag

road_high wrote: »

Noonan is surely head honcho whiner- I'm sure he's a nice person but all I ever hear or see from his constant negativity about any planned development at all, particularly if its shock horror, privately profit driven. It's a shame he doesnt spend as much time promoting kilkenny from a business and tourism angle instead of trying to block everything that may be planned.

One of the driving forces behind the Medieval Museum, actually.

catbear

I think Malcolm is a good guy, he was there at the public meetings when the so called concerned citizens and future protestors weren't arsed turning up.

Give credit where it's due although I am scratching my head at his argument that the boundary of the old cathedral district was being affected by CAS. Feck sake, if that's a reasonable objective then we should ban cars from all Kilkenny streets.

Odd thing is CAS and the completed ring road would make his long wanted one way system a real possibility.

Mankbag

catbear wrote: »

I think Malcolm is a good guy, he was there at the public meetings when the so called concerned citizens and future protestors weren't arsed turning up.

Give credit where it's due although I am scratching my head at his argument that the boundary of the old cathedral district was being affected by CAS. Feck sake, if that's a reasonable objective then we should ban cars from all Kilkenny streets.

Odd thing is CAS and the completed ring road would make his long wanted one way system a real possibility.

Is he that keen on a one-way system? I always assumed the Greens wanted to get as many cars out of the city centre as possible and have people come in on buses and bikes instead.

catbear

Mankbag wrote: »

Is he that keen on a one-way system? I always assumed the Greens wanted to get as many cars out of the city centre as possible and have people come in on buses and bikes instead.

It depends on which green you're talking to, they've been split internally on many issues in the past. The only thing that distinguished them was the absence of cronyism but they pretty much nullified that positive by propping up ff and then your one White from Carlow was telling us to move on after the bank bailout!

When that bankrupted the country they went very quiet with their move on gibberish.

Green by name and nature.

road_high

Mankbag wrote: »

One of the driving forces behind the Medieval Museum, actually.

Wow- this was public money (ie other people's). Should he get a medal for this? On the whole he's a force for negativity and blocking development.

catbear

Any councillor could indeed attach their name to any project by merely blattering about it in the paper but the real work was done by the volunteers who kept the medieval aspects intact and explored more like the way the Archeaoligical society bought and restored rothe house in the 1950s.

I've read loads of John Bradley papers over the years and along with the other contributors to the kilkenny archeaological journal we really are very fortunate to have such enthusiasm for that heritage in this town, long before it became the tourist spot it is today.

Mankbag

road_high wrote: »

Wow- this was public money (ie other people's). Should he get a medal for this? On the whole he's a force for negativity and blocking development.

No, he shouldn't get a medal. But are you saying he's not entitled to some credit for helping ensure that public money - and that's OUR public money, remember - was spent in a way that enhances Kilkenny and is proving a major tourist attraction?

You're the person who never stops pontificating about value for taxpayer's money and more tourism in Kilkenny, after all. Surely you must be happy with the Medieval Museum and the people who helped bring it to fruition.

Mankbag

catbear wrote: »

Any councillor could indeed attach their name to any project by merely blattering about it in the paper but the real work was done by the volunteers who kept the medieval aspects intact and explored more like the way the Archeaoligical society bought and restored rothe house in the 1950s.

I've read loads of John Bradley papers over the years and along with the other contributors to the kilkenny archeaological journal we really are very fortunate to have such enthusiasm for that heritage in this town, long before it became the tourist spot it is today.

Dead on re John Bradley. It's a pity he didn't live to be given the freedom of the city. The work he and, before him, the like of Margaret Phelan did in helping preserve as much of old Kilkenny as they could will probably be never fully understood or appreciated.

randylonghorn

Very true, and loads of others like Maureen Hegarty and Dorcas Birthistle and way too many to mention here, and good to see their mantle being upheld by a new generation, including John Bradley's student in earlier days, and later collaborator on a number of projects, Cóilin Ó Drisceoil.

Delighted to see that John Bradley is held in such high esteem, especially given some of the other comments above, as John was wholly opposed to the CAS!

Also strange to see Malcolm Noonan being denigrated in one breath and John praised in the next, as the two men were friendly and were usually to be found on the same side of the argument re: issues affecting Kilkenny's heritage and built environment, including CAS.

up for anything

road_high wrote: »

Rent a mob/ anarchy types with too much time on their hands. These people protest all development on the grounds of anti capitalism or trendy "environmentalism". While they cheerfully live off the state and system they dispise.

road_high wrote: »

Course they are...they're serial objectors/anarchists. None of them work or do anything remotely productive so plenty of time to conjure up rubbish to protest about.

Really? 99% of the people that I knew protesting on the bridge were working or retired but you carry on with your ranting.

DickoHara

Was not one of the leading protestor an ex irish, lions star.

Mankbag

road_high wrote: »

Course they are...they're serial objectors/anarchists. None of them work or do anything remotely productive so plenty of time to conjure up rubbish to protest about.

Contrary to what Catbear and Road High insisted (with absolutely no proof, needless to say, but they insisted anyway), it turns out that the people objecting to the extension of the ring road are nothing to do with the people who objected to the CAS bridge. Now there's a surprise!!!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/european-court-judgment-may-be-good-news-for-kilkenny-road-objectors-1.3691438?fbclid=IwAR1Fw74kEZjT4qTIzL_v8gw7QFz41pfPETXodIzke-g-YTjXmsbxcDFgUbI#.W-V1tdbYH6k.facebook

Joe Daly

Old money holding on to what they have.