Whats next for Bus Eireann?

Stephen15

Since the strike and upcoming ballot on LC recommendations what is next for BE their workers, unions and mangement? What do people think?

n97 mini

Threads about BE eventually get shut down here. Probably better off discussing it elsewhere.

Infini

Noy even worth talking about atm as any reasonable debate gets thrown out the window by the salty brigade, it ends up going 30 pages of derp before Buffybot closes down the entire thing after a massive headache brought on by the snowflakes...

We need some cat videos or something to calm down everyone!

oppenheimer1

n97 mini wrote: »

Threads about BE eventually get shut down here. Probably better off discussing it elsewhere.

Which will shut first, BE or this thread?

At least BE has a chance of survival.

Peter File

Does anyone know when we are likely to get the results of the ballot?

end of the road

Peter File wrote: »

Does anyone know when we are likely to get the results of the ballot?

may 12th i think?

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

may 12th i think?

May 12th for SIPTU, NBRU not yet confirmed but expected to be about a week later.

jimmycrackcorm

GM228 wrote: »

May 12th for SIPTU, NBRU not yet confirmed but expected to be about a week later.

Then its the end of the road for BE*


*EOTR will be posting shortly after.

StringerBell

I expect the ballot to be passed. Then the company to trundle on for another few years and have to be dealt with again at a later date.

Wanderer78

I suspect they'll eventually shut the doors of be, but it 'll probably trundle along for a while

oppenheimer1

Am I right in saying the siptu ballot result is due tomorrow?

This saga has kinda died out, and with no rumours on the siptu result, can we take it that the drivers have accepted the deal?

devnull

NBRU not voted yet.

All indications from what I have heard point out to an all out CIE strike for exam season.

GM228

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Am I right in saying the siptu ballot result is due tomorrow?

This saga has kinda died out, and with no rumours on the siptu result, can we take it that the drivers have accepted the deal?

Yes SIPTU result due tomorrow, NBRU balloting to start Monday I'm told.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

NBRU not voted yet.

All indications from what I have heard point out to an all out CIE strike for exam season.

Up to recently word was the unions were expecting a majority rejection, now they have adjusted that expectation to 50/50.

XPS_Zero

Does anyone have a copy of the proposed deal?
Or a summary of the proposals?

GM228

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the proposed deal?
Or a summary of the proposals?

http://nbru.ie/union/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Labour-Court-Recommendation-No.-LCR21438.pdf

bk

There is lots of detail there, lots of cut backs to admin staff and management both in terms of numbers and salary.

But the figures of most interest to most drivers would be that a driver with 4 years experience will work between 39 to 48 hours a week and thus earn between €40,700 to €50,200 a year and potentially more again if they work Sundays.

While it might be less then they currently earn, it would still leave them as some of the best paid bus drivers in the country and a pretty decent salary in any ones book IMO.

Stephen15

SIPTU ballot due today any idea when?

Stephen15

Just reading UNITE have accepted the recommendations

GM228

SIPTU have accepted.

Stephen15

GM228 wrote: »

SIPTU have accepted.

So no DB or IE smypathy strike

GM228

Stephen15 wrote: »

So no DB or IE smypathy strike

Well the NBRU, TSSA and TEEU still have to vote.....

Would be interesting if they rejected and went out on strike again.

SIPTU was 53% yes vote.

NBRU results due 19th.

Stephen15

GM228 wrote: »

Well the NBRU, TSSA and TEEU still have to vote.....

Would be interesting if they rejected and went out on strike again.

SIPTU was 53% yes vote.

NBRU results due 19th.

Yes but only SIPTU members in DB and IE voted for a strike. Siptu were the only union to ballot members in other companies.

GM228

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes but only SIPTU members in DB and IE voted for a strike. Siptu were the only union to ballot members in other companies.

Correct, BUT vote by SIPTU was to support "striking BE workers", not "striking SIPTU BE workers", could potentially be a very interesting scenario if the others reject and judging by the result it could happen.

oppenheimer1

Things will get interesting if NBRU reject it. Given as it was such a tight margin for Siptu and they are considered the less hardline of the two its looking like that will happen. Then again maybe NBRU will see the writing on the wall now.

devnull

Unconfirmed rumours of NBRU to ballot Dublin Bus members. next week

fxotoole

devnull wrote: »

All indications from what I have heard point out to an all out CIE strike for exam season.

What a scummy thing to even consider doing

devnull

May not be the case, since some unions have voted to accept the deal, but the information I had when I posted that was that the NBRU were heading towards a rejection.

pjohnson

fxotoole wrote: »

What a scummy thing to even consider doing

Hardly suprising. Well the early results seem to indicate that maybe intelligence will win out. Interesting to see if that trend continues.

Jamie2k9

What type of workers do NBRU represent and particularity the age group?

devnull

NBRU would be seen as more hardline.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

Unconfirmed rumours of NBRU to ballot Dublin Bus members. next week

Why DB and not IE, if it's only DB then prehaps it related something else.

Have CIE quietly dropped action for loses?

Peppa Pig

SIPTU Sector Organiser, Willie Noone, said the acceptance of the recommendation can only be described as a purely pragmatic decision.

He said its contents will have huge cultural, structural and financial implications for all staff within the company and the wider CIÉ Group.

I love to know what cultural changes he is talking about. Hopefully a culture change of not going on strike every couple of years

XPS_Zero

It's a pleasant surprise that enough of them have seen that she sheer math is against them - the company is going bankrupt and the states not going to divert money from health ,education and welfare to prop up the overtime in the commercial arm of a bus company at a time when were struggling to keep schools funded, supply more hospital beds, and provide hi-tech drugs for horrible conditions.

It's not exactly a massive drop, especially when you keep it in the context of the 90% pay rise over the post 2000 boom years, even taking into account the drop in that after the recession, rise in cost of living since then (which pay kept ahead of), it didn't go down by much, overall they are still among the best paid in their field anywhere, not to mention they have a kind of job security and pension options that some workers can only dream of, all of that has value. It's good to see some of them recognize that.

But there will always be a few hardcore Trotsky types in Irish unions who think they're standing up against the elite by ignoring math, reality and common sense, so they might yet shoot themselves in the foot.

CatFromHue

devnull wrote: »

May not be the case, since some unions have voted to accept the deal, but the information I had when I posted that was that the NBRU were heading towards a rejection.

What happens to the deal if they do?

If they vote no is that pretty much it for BE as we not it?

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I love to know what cultural changes he is talking about. Hopefully a culture change of not going on strike every couple of years

going on strike will happen unless
1. industrial relations are improved and are good.
2. sufficient talks have taken place on the issues as soon as they arise so that a solution can be found before it gets to the stage where industrial action needs to happen.

Stephen15

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why DB and not IE, if it's only DB then prehaps it related something else.

Have CIE quietly dropped action for loses?

Perhaps because DB is a also a in the bus sector and they want to confine the issue to the bus sector for the time being. Unless the OP has a deep insider knowledge into the NBRU this complete and utter speculation really.

NBRU said they would not ballot DB or IE members for action due to fear of legal consequences.

GM228

CatFromHue wrote: »

What happens to the deal if they do?

1. Management would push through the deal anyway (assuming they also accept it - BE have not officially accepted it either).

2. NBRU back out on strike.

3. SIPTU and other unions members who accepted would be forced out aswell as they would not pass pickets.

5. Possible IE/DB sympathy strike.

6. BE into examinership - possibly eventually receivership/liquidation and being wound up, lots of P45s and BE becoming another chapter in history books.

jimmycrackcorm

devnull wrote:

All indications from what I have heard point out to an all out CIE strike for exam season.

That would be just shooting themselves in the foot. Exam students are a small proportion of travelers. Parents will carpool or make other arrangements and it would be a PR disaster for the unions.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

2. sufficient talks have taken place on the issues as soon as they arise so that a solution can be found before it gets to the stage where industrial action needs to happen.

So for this dispute, there obviously wasn't sufficient talks, as the labour court talks were needed.
The unions could have gone to the labour court or gone on strike. They ignored your idea and now two unions have their tails between their legs.

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So for this dispute, there obviously wasn't sufficient talks, as the labour court talks were needed. The unions could have gone to the labour court or gone on strike. They ignored your idea and now two unions have their tails between their legs.

they don't have their tails between their legs. the majority of those unions members (all be it a slight majority in siptu's case) voted for the deal. they felt that it was a decent enough deal hence voting for it. there is no evidence they ignored anything. they both went on strike and went to the labour court as is their right to do so.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

they don't have their tails between their legs. the majority of those unions members (all be it a slight majority in siptu's case) voted for the deal. they felt that it was a decent enough deal hence voting for it. there is no evidence they ignored anything. they both went on strike and went to the labour court as is their right to do so.

So the strike wasn't the last resort, the labour court was, so they could have saved 3 weeks of hassle and no pay by continuing the talking.

Willie Noone wrote:

The company said on Monday that while inefficiencies had been acknowledged and accepted by unions, “there was a refusal to accept any reduction of earnings, including unnecessary overtime earnings”.

They've accepted them now, and lost 3 weeks pay. If that's not a tail between their legs, I don't what is.

But hey - you keep peddling your narrative.

jimmycrackcorm

end of the road wrote:

they don't have their tails between their legs. the majority of those unions members (all be it a slight majority in siptu's case) voted for the deal. they felt that it was a decent enough deal hence voting for it. there is no evidence they ignored anything. they both went on strike and went to the labour court as is their right to do so.

If you say it's a decent enough deal, why were the unions complaining about the cut in pay in the first place?

You know, we know, they didn't have a choice but to accept.

end of the road

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If you say it's a decent enough deal, why were the unions complaining about the cut in pay in the first place?

nobody wants a pay cut. anyone who says they would happily take a pay cut are being untruthful. they might take it as they feel it's necessary but they wouldn't be happy to do it, they would be losing money after all.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You know, we know, they didn't have a choice but to accept.

of course they had a choice, they could have voted no . they didn't and we can be glad.

Jamie2k9

Antyone know whu SIPTU have not made the IE result public???

Would be surprised if they rejected action but suspect its no the reason.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Antyone know whu SIPTU have not made the IE result public???

Would be surprised if they rejected action but suspect its no the reason.

What IE result? They made the sympathy action result public.

Heisenberg1

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Antyone know whu SIPTU have not made the IE result public???

Would be surprised if they rejected action but suspect its no the reason.

IE voted to go on strike in sympathy some weeks ago.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Antyone know whu SIPTU have not made the IE result public???

Would be surprised if they rejected action but suspect its no the reason.

What IE result? They made the sympathy action result public.

Sorry, forgot that IE result was published already.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Antyone know whu SIPTU have not made the IE result public???

Would be surprised if they rejected action but suspect its no the reason.

What IE result? They made the sympathy action result public.

Sorry, forgot that IE result was published already.

XPS_Zero

h

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So the strike wasn't the last resort, the labour court was, so they could have saved 3 weeks of hassle and no pay by continuing the talking.
They've accepted them now, and lost 3 weeks pay. If that's not a tail between their legs, I don't what is.

But hey - you keep peddling your narrative.

It's not tail between legs so much as grim resignation seems, that this isn't 2004 any more and writing cheque to shut unions up is a thing of the past, even with the PS "pay restoration" horse sh1t its starting to be challenged.

FF has learned it's lesson from that approach since it left us overexposed financially when the global banking crash hit, and they've painful memories of the political cost that had for them, so they didn't support writing a cheque, just made some token "i have to say this cos im in opposition" nudges for the minister to join talks, not pay out, it's clear the current govt don't want to open the cheque book, and any hopes they had of the independent minister breaking ranks are dashed by him being a long critic of CIE...they had nobody to go to. You had SF calling for the cheque book to be opened but unlike FF they'd no leverage to force the govt to do that, and unlike the govt no power to do it.
The only thing left to force the govt into submission was public support. They might have been encouraged by the public support for the Garda pay increase but ought to have known that was a unique case since they put their lives on the line, apples and oranges in the sympathy stakes. They'd have been wiser to look at the Luas strike where there was zero public support. A multi-national making a decision to cave is one thing, but the state is another, especially a state that needs to send a message ahead of public sector pay talks that were not repeating the same bloody mistakes all over again. Already, 2/3 of the new spending since the recession ended has gone to PS pay rather than direct service provision. It's not 1970 or even 2004 any more, and they just seem to have realized that EVENTUALLY


Sympathy strikes need to be made illegal, in fact we need to rip up unions as an entire concept and start over from scratch, the way unions are behaving today, the PS ones at least, they are doing far more damage to workers rights than any employer

Torcaill

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That would be just shooting themselves in the foot. Exam students are a small proportion of travelers. Parents will carpool or make other arrangements and it would be a PR disaster for the unions.

Agree totally