Help with attic conversion

Daisy000

Hi,
I m in a process of buying a house with the attic conversion. It's sold as storage only because it doesn't have the legal minimum ceiling height to classify as a bedroom/living space. It has velux windows to the rear and it's been confirmed by a local authority it is exempt from planing permission. It also has been more than 7 years so the statue of limitations would apply.
My question is does this attic conversion needs any certificates/ opinions on compliance with building regulations?Modifications have been made to the roof structure to cater for an attic conversion. The vendors doesn't have any paper work in place and the EA keeps repeating it is not an official habitable space so it doesn't need to comply with building regs...
Also do I need any document to confirm the exception from planning?

goz83

Engineer would confirm the integrity of the attic/roof.

Daisy000

Do you mean if a pre-purchase survey report says the house is structurally sound that's enough for the sale to go through?

Prenderb

Daisy000 wrote: »

Do you mean if a pre-purchase survey report says the house is structurally sound that's enough for the sale to go through?

Pre-purchase report By whom? 2nd poster is talking about any structural modifications to the roof trusses etc.

Daisy000

I am completely lost to be honest and the more I read on this matter the more confused I get...
Let's try again... If converted attic is sold as storage only space, do vendors need to provide a certificate/opinion of compliance?

Daisy000

pre-purchase report was done by an engineer

Gumbo

Daisy000 wrote: »

I am completely lost to be honest and the more I read on this matter the more confused I get...
Let's try again... If converted attic is sold as storage only space, do vendors need to provide a certificate/opinion of compliance?

Yes.
They need to provide a certificate of exemption from planning permission.
They should also supply a certificate of compliance with building regulations. Doesn't matter if it's classed as storage, there are still major structural works which would of having to take place that need certification. (Part A (Structure)).

There are fire safety issues also by adding an additional accessible storey to a dwelling.

Your survey should pick these items up and request these certificates.

Water John

Read OP again.

Gumbo

Water John wrote: »

Read OP again.

With what reference?

My advice still stands.

Certification required.

Daisy000

kceire wrote: »

Yes.
They need to provide a certificate of exemption from planning permission.
They should also supply a certificate of compliance with building regulations. Doesn't matter if it's classed as storage, there are still major structural works which would of having to take place that need certification. (Part A (Structure)).

There are fire safety issues also by adding an additional accessible storey to a dwelling.

Your survey should pick these items up and request these certificates.

The problem is vendors didn't get the certificate of compliance while the works took place... So in my understanding it's impossible/too late to get it now and the only option now is to get an opinion on compliance with building regulations which can be based on visual inspection only??? Is that enough for legal requirement for sale to go through?

Gumbo

Daisy000 wrote: »

The problem is vendors didn't get the certificate of compliance while the works took place... So in my understanding it's impossible/too late to get it now and the only option now is to get an opinion on compliance with building regulations which can be based on visual inspection only??? Is that enough for legal requirement for sale to go through?

May be enough to allow the sale to go through.
Wouldn't be enough to satisfy me that the place was actually built properly.

I would be expecting a discount on the property and the vendors to provide some form of certification. Or if they can provide an envasive report (structural/fire) then that would satisfy me.

Calahonda52

Daisy000 wrote: »

The problem is vendors didn't get the certificate of compliance while the works took place... So in my understanding it's impossible/too late to get it now and the only option now is to get an opinion on compliance with building regulations which can be based on visual inspection only??? Is that enough for legal requirement for sale to go through?

It may depend on the lender, if it is a debt financed sale.
Op: in passing is the house now a 3 storey with the attic?

TRS30

Having recently gone through this, I would recommend that you get a certificate of compliance and exempt from PP. Even if is only a visual inspection Cert (sometime the engineer can look into the storage areas to see metal beams or what wood was used etc).
Remember in the future you will be selling this house and buyers will look for the certificate. Also get this done solicitor to solicitor, don't bother with the EA, in my experience they can't clue about these kind of things.

Daisy000

Colahonda 52,

It is a bungalow with attic
Loan is 60% the rest is ours

Daisy000

TRS30,

Was attic conversion in your case advertised as storage only?

Daisy000

This is what an engineers pre-purchase report says : " newly introduced knee wall has been constructed to transfer the rafter loads into the ceiling joists. It did not appear that the ceiling joists were strengthened to cater for this additional roof load. Opening up works would be required to confirm same. Also we were not able to confirm if joists had been cut to form the new stairwell opening without incorporating strengthening trimmer timbers. Again some opening up works would be required to confirm this.All that being said, the existing ceiling soffit did not show evidence of excessive deflection or distress."

"Attic crawl space, prefabricated timber trusses noted"

TRS30

Daisy000 wrote: »

TRS30,

Was attic conversion in your case advertised as storage only?

It was advertised as a converted attic, not a bedroom.

TRS30

Daisy000 wrote: »

This is what an engineers pre-purchase report says : " newly introduced knee wall has been constructed to transfer the rafter loads into the ceiling joists. It did not appear that the ceiling joists were strengthened to cater for this additional roof load. Opening up works would be required to confirm same. Also we were not able to confirm if joists had been cut to form the new stairwell opening without incorporating strengthening trimmer timbers. Again some opening up works would be required to confirm this.All that being said, the existing ceiling soffit did not show evidence of excessive deflection or distress."

"Attic crawl space, prefabricated timber trusses noted"

Who told you the vendor's don't have a certificate? Your solicitor will most likely recommend that you one is supplied with the contract.

Daisy000

TRS30 wrote: »

Who told you the vendor's don't have a certificate? Your solicitor will most likely recommend that you one is supplied with the contract.

EA told us there is no certificate
Is it a legal requirement to have certificate/opinion for sale to go through?What if solicitor allows to go ahead without it?

TRS30

Daisy000 wrote: »

TRS30 wrote: »

Who told you the vendor's don't have a certificate? Your solicitor will most likely recommend that you one is supplied with the contract.

EA told us there is no certificate
Is it a legal requirement to have certificate/opinion for sale to go through?What if solicitor allows to go ahead without it?

Not sure if it's a legal requirement or not.
have you asked your solicitor about it?

Gumbo

Daisy000 wrote: »

EA told us there is no certificate
Is it a legal requirement to have certificate/opinion for sale to go through?What if solicitor allows to go ahead without it?

Usually :
Your surveyor highlights the issue.
Surveyors report goes to your solicitor.
Your solicitor sends t to sellers solicitor requesting certs.
Your bank have got wind of this by now as they require clean planning/building title.

Daisy000

kceire wrote: »

Usually :
Your surveyor highlights the issue.
Surveyors report goes to your solicitor.
Your solicitor sends t to sellers solicitor requesting certs.
Your bank have got wind of this by now as they require clean planning/building title.

This was exactly the order with us but in our case our survey initially stated the velux windows needed a planing permission which is now officially confirmed exempt under section 4(1)(h) of the Planning & Development Act. So now my solicitor seems to think if it's exempt and sold as storage only it doesn't need a certificate/opinion. I worry that it's probably not wright and the vendors should still provide the opinion on compliance.

Calahonda52

Based on the survey report extract above, you won't get an opinion that is worth a damn.

If I was writing it I would be repeating what said above and saying it is impossible to express an opinion on compliance with the building regs.
i.e. it's neither positive or negative , just no clue

Daisy000

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Based on the survey report extract above, you won't get an opinion that is worth a damn.

If I was writing it I would be repeating what said above and saying it is impossible to express an opinion on compliance with the building regs.
i.e. it's neither positive or negative , just no clue

How about the fact that it was done 8
years ago and surveyors report says "did not show evidence of excessive deflection or distress." If it was converted in a bad way surely it would show signs by now?

Calahonda52

Daisy000 wrote: »

How about the fact that it was done 8
years ago and surveyors report says "did not show evidence of excessive deflection or distress." If it was converted in a bad way surely it would show signs by now?

That is not the point.
The point is that you need, in an ideal world, a cert of compliance, period.

Thats not happening so next up is an opinion on compliance.

I am saying that I would not write either of the following:
1: IMO it complies with Building Regs
2: IMO it does NOT comply with Building Regs.

because its impossible to tell without some serious invasive opening up.

Having said all that it is probably fine but we are not in the weather business:)