Rear seat belts, thoughts, advice, experiences

clogher71

Hi All,
I recently bought a cortina, i need rear seat belts for it, forums etc say BMW E36, Peugeot 405, Rover ones will fit. I can also get new 'spurious' ones. I am on a budget and believe there are cars being crushed every day with the belts in them that.i need and in some cases just given away!. I was enquirimg with a garage guy today, did he have anything suitable scrapped, and he said 'where do I stand with insurance if BMW seatbelts are fitted in a Ford etc, at lest the spurious ones would be 'certified ' etc'. This guy put me thinking on which is a good point.
I know the car left the factory so does it need seat belts at all? So what brand is fitted would not make a difference etc
Has anyone looked into this? There is lots of classics out there that have had rear belts retro fitted, are they legal in the event of an accident.
I want to get second hand ones, but it's going to be in the back of my mind if I fit them would there be problems in the event of an insurance claim ...

PaulK_CCI

Your car never left the factory with rear set belts (if we're talking about an older seventies Cortina), so from an insurance point of view, there is not going to be an issue (unless your insurance specifically states that you need to install rear seat belts, but from my memory that is not the case with Classic Car insurances). 

It is up to you as the owner to decide that you want to put safety first and install seat belts. Which ones, is not really an issue because you are surely not going to find "original Cortina belts. In fact the original belts for the front seats will most likely be woefully inadequate anyway. 

I have installed rear seat belts in load of the cars that I sold over the years, and generally I would investigate where the anchor points are in the car (by taking out the rear bench) and start measuring how long the distance is from the center floor anchor points to where the buckle lock would come out of the rear bench, so that you don't have to dig somewhere deep in the bench to find the buckle lock. Then visit your local scrap yard and start looking for a suitable pair. Note three point belts generally require an anchor point on the parcel shelf. Otherwise you will have to make do with two point belts.

Silvera

I plan on fitting seat belts to the rear of my two classics. I purchased one s/h pair so far (along with some other parts) some months ago. Since then, however, having read various forums etc about the subject, I'm starting to wonder if using s/h seat belts is a good idea at all?

What if they came from an accident damaged car and are 'stretched' or otherwise strained? Such 'damage' wouldnt be obvious in comparison to tears, cuts, etc

Posters on other forums posed the question - 'would you risk your families safety with /sh seat belts?'

I know that the front seat belts in a classic would (obviously) be s/h, but still......it makes you think!

Wibbs

Silvera wrote: »

Posters on other forums posed the question - 'would you risk your families safety with /sh seat belts?'

I know that the front seat belts in a classic would (obviously) be s/h, but still......it makes you think!

True, but everybody who buys any secondhand car is driving with secondhand seat belts.

clogher71

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

Your car never left the factory with rear set belts (if we're talking about an older seventies Cortina), so from an insurance point of view, there is not going to be an issue (unless your insurance specifically states that you need to install rear seat belts, but from my memory that is not the case with Classic Car insurances). 

It is up to you as the owner to decide that you want to put safety first and install seat belts. Which ones, is not really an issue because you are surely not going to find "original Cortina belts. In fact the original belts for the front seats will most likely be woefully inadequate anyway. 

I have installed rear seat belts in load of the cars that I sold over the years, and generally I would investigate where the anchor points are in the car (by taking out the rear bench) and start measuring how long the distance is from the center floor anchor points to where the buckle lock would come out of the rear bench, so that you don't have to dig somewhere deep in the bench to find the buckle lock. Then visit your local scrap yard and start looking for a suitable pair. Note three point belts generally require an anchor point on the parcel shelf. Otherwise you will have to make do with two point belts.

I fully intend on fitting seat belts in the rear. The mounting points are there& if seat belts bought from a scrap yard were fitted. I suppose, if there was an accident, an automotive acessor comes out, looks at the rear seatbelts, BMW stamp on them, would his report say BMW belts fitted , never designed/ intended for this vehicle etc etc, insurance does not want to know then...Would that be a valid point?

Silvera

Wibbs wrote: »

True, but everybody who buys any secondhand car is driving with secondhand seat belts.

I did acknowledge that in my post. I'm not saying otherwise. Some would argue that if you buy a s/h car you may/could at least find out if it was crashed or not, but if somebody handed you s/h seat belts its 'a great unknown' as to their history.

Kenny Logins

You should be able to find the right spec. here - http://www.securon.co.uk/seatbelts_layouts.htm and then hit eBay with the part no. for new belts.

Dades

clogher71 wrote: »

I fully intend on fitting seat belts in the rear. The mounting points are there& if seat belts bought from a scrap yard were fitted. I suppose, if there was an accident, an automotive acessor comes out, looks at the rear seatbelts, BMW stamp on them, would his report say BMW belts fitted , never designed/ intended for this vehicle etc etc, insurance does not want to know then...Would that be a valid point?

If there were no seatbelts to begin with the insurance company would have be arguing the belts you fitted were worse than no belt at all, which is unlikely.

I fitted a pair of those Securon belts to my 924 and while being aftermarket, they are new, in the original (unused) mounting points and undoubtably better than nothing!

Silvera

Dades wrote: »

I fitted a pair of those Securon belts to my 924 and while being aftermarket, they are new, in the original (unused) mounting points and undoubtably better than nothing!

May I ask what the belts cost you?
I've seen wildly differing prices for new rear seat belts.

tc20

I recall this company from adverts they had/have in the Mercedes Club Gazette - formerly SBS, it now appears they are under the Quickfit name (not the exhaust/tyre crowd), perhaps they have been acquired in the intervening years.
I haven't used them, but they've been around for along time, UK based. it might be of help.

http://www.quickfitsbs.com/index.php

clogher71

Dades wrote: »

If there were no seatbelts to begin with the insurance company would have be arguing the belts you fitted were worse than no belt at all, which is unlikely.

I fitted a pair of those Securon belts to my 924 and while being aftermarket, they are new, in the original (unused) mounting points and undoubtably better than nothing!

Yes that is a good point. I am just wondering has anyone looked into this, as there are old ford car driving around with belts from Rovers and other manafacturers etc. Securon belts would be fine so long as you fitted (their)correct part number.

I am not just talking about my own situation here, I am wondering where me or someone else had an accident and had different belts fitted that were never intended for the vehicle in question? The same goes for front belts I guess.
I have had a lot of hassle with insurance companies over the years.

Dades

Silvera wrote: »

May I ask what the belts cost you?
I've seen wildly differing prices for new rear seat belts.

Sure thing. I just checked and I paid GBP24 on eBay last year. In fact this is the eBay item (still selling).

clogher71 wrote: »

I have had a lot of hassle with insurance companies over the years.

The consensus here is that your car is only required to have the same safety features it left the factory with, but realistically, the only definitive answer you'll get is from your own insurance company.

Silvera

Dades wrote: »

Sure thing. I just checked and I paid GBP24 on eBay last year. In fact this is the eBay item (still selling)

Cheers for that! You've just solved my 'seat belt search'

Silvera

clogher71 wrote: »

I am not just talking about my own situation here, I am wondering where me or someone else had an accident and had different belts fitted that were never intended for the vehicle in question? The same goes for front belts I guess.
I have had a lot of hassle with insurance companies over the years.

Thinking about it a bit more...I'd say the first question an insurance company would ask is "Were the seat belts professionally fitted?"

clogher71

Silvera wrote: »

Thinking about it a bit more...I'd say the first question an insurance company would ask is "Were the seat belts professionally fitted?"[/quote

Good point also. It was a comment that put me thinking too. I was quite happy to head off to the scrap yard and find belts to fit, now I am not sure, while cheaper, it might have been the wrong thing to do in the event of a serious accident .....

CWest

Just to share...

I fitted Securon 200 - 3 point belt to the rear seat of my '67 Mercedes Pagoda. The car would not have had rear belts or mounting points originally (nor to my knowledge were they a factory option at the time).

I bought them on eBay for something under £20/belt + postage. So I didn't consider anything other than a new belt at that price. That was about 6 years ago.

The securon web site gives guidance on the various options available so you can choose what's best suited for you. 3 point belts being much safer than a lap belt only.

All works well and makes me comfortable to have our son in the back - gladly effectiveness in a crash is untested!