Apartment not cleaned before moving in

Shurwhynot

Just wondering what people's opinions on this are

A few weeks back, I viewed an apartment that someone was still living in and who would be vacating at month end. The landlord showed me around, and we decided to take it. The person living in the apartment was moving out at the end of March. We had paid up to the end of April in our current place, but due to the competitive nature of renting these days, we agreed to pay the deposit on the new place from the 7th of April and double rent for a few weeks.

We decided to move some stuff into the new apartment on Thursday of last week after being assured by the landlord that it was cleaned and ready to go, only to find that it wasn't cleaned at all. The kitchen was dirty, dust everywhere, food left in the freezer, various rubbish left around the place, rubbish in the bin etc

I rang the landlord straight away and he acted surprised, but did apologize to be fair. I think it's clear that he just assumed that the girl living there would do a good job of cleaning the place before she left, and never actually went to inspect for himself. We had planned on staying there just for the night we moved in, but due to the place not being cleaned, ended up forking out €100 for a hotel (our other place is the other side of the country). He text me the following day apologizing again and saying that he wouldn't be able to get a cleaner in until today (Tuesday). Now the last thing i want to do is fall out with the new landlord, as it is a lovely place and at a reasonable price, but given that the house in our eyes was unlivable until it gets cleaned, should I be looking for a reduction in the first month's rent? Or can he tell me to do one? I would assume that he should be taking the cleaning costs out of the previous person's deposit, but the least a new tenant should expect is a clean apartment when moving in after paying money over?

spaceHopper

Unless she left filth everywhere to the point that it was a health hazard while not ideal I think going to a hotel was a bit to much and you will have to pay for it yourself. Hope you took pictures.

Shurwhynot

spaceHopper wrote: »

Unless she left filth everywhere to the point that it was a health hazard while not ideal I think going to a hotel was a bit to much and you will have to pay for it yourself. Hope you took pictures.

I sent him on about 30 pictures at his request. There were also broken chairs in the kitchen. The guy lives 10 minutes down the road - you would think he'd have the decency to check that the place was clean before having new tenants move in.

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Shurwhynot

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Of course you would clean it yourself, but cleaning a filthy oven and microwave that someone else has destroyed? We also found what looked like mouse droppings in the hot press. And broken furniture? The least you'd expect when moving into a new apartment is that the landlord has the decency to inspect it before you move in, or is that too much to ask these days?

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Shurwhynot

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I probably would have slept there to be honest, but my girlfriend is a clean freak and refused. I meant the appliances were filthy, no attempt at cleaning them whatsoever. The hotel isn't the issue, it's the fact that the landlord didn't even check to see if the place was clean before letting us move in, which i find downright ignorant and cheeky.

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bucketybuck

My opinion is that going to a hotel was a bit precious, it doesn't sound like the flat was un-inhabitable or anything even close to that.

The landlord has apologised and is making arrangements, going after him for compensation sounds like a good way to fall out with your new landlord.

Shurwhynot

bucketybuck wrote: »

My opinion is that going to a hotel was a bit precious, it doesn't sound like the flat was un-inhabitable or anything even close to that.

The landlord has apologised and is making arrangements, going after him for compensation sounds like a good way to fall out with your new landlord.

I haven't told the landlord about the hotel to be fair. I just could never imagine renting a place out that hasn't been cleaned. I'm not looking to fall out with the guy, but I don't find it unreasonable to ask the question anyway - it should come from the previous person's deposit

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skallywag

You are fully justified in expecting the place to be properly cleaned before you move in, and if the landlord was in any way decent he would be offering you a discount of some form.

I find it very odd that he would not have checked the place out before you moved in, there is simply no excuse for that.

Shurwhynot

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So who forks out for broken furniture? And professional cleaning of the apartment?

BetsyEllen

I totally understand why you're annoyed but I would let it go.
He should have checked it yes but he didn't and is getting it cleaned now.

It's not ideal but it is what it is and I wouldn't take it any further - for the sake of your relationship with him.

Just maybe don't break your back to clean it thoroughly yourself when the times comes to move out!

doolox

Unfortunately the "free" market dictates the level of service given to a tenant nowadays.

I looks as if you will have to clean up after the previous scruff.

Lets hope that the Landlord takes cleaning costs out of the deposit he has taken form the previous tenant and lets hope it is enough to cover the often heavy costs of cleaning between lets.

I'd much prefer the German system of unfurnished lets where the tenant provides their own appliances but I can't see Irish regulations allowing for that on one years leases.

Nobody keeps an oven or fridge clean enough between lets unless they are a salad eating vegetarian who neither fries or roasts.

skallywag

doolox wrote: »

Nobody keeps an oven or fridge clean enough between lets unless they are a salad eating vegetarian who neither fries or roasts.

I've had to clean fridges and ovens on moving out of places that I have rented, it certainly can be a complete nightmare, in fact for the oven I needed to get a person in who does such cleaning for a living. I had no choice in the matter though as my contract clearly stated that I needed to leave the place as I had found it when I moved in ...

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deathtocaptcha

Shurwhynot wrote: »

We had paid up to the end of April in our current place, but due to the competitive nature of renting these days, we agreed to pay the deposit on the new place from the 7th of April and double rent for a few weeks.

So you paid for 3 weeks rent you don't need in order to be sure to beat the competition? Isn't that just adding to the very problem you feel you're up against?

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Shurwhynot

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As I said in my original post, different side of the country

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Shurwhynot

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I also stated in my opening post that he had told me that it was cleaned. I didn't expect him to get someone in on Good Friday. I expected it to be clean after being told by him that it was clean.

Not in it yet no

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Shurwhynot

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Because it was late Thursday evening when I got there, home would have been a 2 hour journey back up the road

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Mrs OBumble

Did you not do a mutual inspection, inventory check and set of photos shpwing the condition of the place when you got the keys and handed ovet your deposit????

Obviously not. So what are you going to say when the LL asks about some piece of furniture that you've never seen?

MuffinTop86

When I went to rent an apartment it was left the way the previous tenants left it, not bad but not great either.
My mum came with us as we were about to sign the lease and gave out yards to the management company one, saying it was filthy and the old mattress a disgrace. So they cleaned and put a new mattress in.
If the landlord seems reasonable you could bring up the suggestion that you have been paying for something you can't use and would reasonably hope for a discount on the first month.

Shurwhynot

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I think you are reading too much into the hotel side of things! That was a decision made at the time out of anger to be honest, but i know the area and was in a hotel within 10 minutes. I wasn't going back up to my other rented accommodation for the weekend, I was going home to my parents house in a different part of the country again.

I've been renting since i was 18, and I'm now 31, and have never had to move into a dirty apartment/house in my life, even through my college years. I genuinely think it's outrageous that someone could rent out an apartment and not check that it's clean first.

Bandana boy

I think you could push the date your taking the property back to the date when Landlord had it cleaned and ready to go , I doubt he will argue this point with you .
I would not expect the Hotel to be covered as that was really your choice and there was a feasible alternative solution (drive home)

Shurwhynot

MuffinTop86 wrote: »

When I went to rent an apartment it was left the way the previous tenants left it, not bad but not great either.
My mum came with us as we were about to sign the lease and gave out yards to the management company one, saying it was filthy and the old mattress a disgrace. So they cleaned and put a new mattress in.
If the landlord seems reasonable you could bring up the suggestion that you have been paying for something you can't use and would reasonably hope for a discount on the first month.

I agree, it all comes down to how reasonable he is going to be. There's nothing we can do if he tells me where to go, and i honestly don't want to fall out with him. Will be giving it a shot anyway

dotsman

doolox wrote: »

Unfortunately the "free" market dictates the level of service given to a tenant nowadays.

I looks as if you will have to clean up after the previous scruff.

Lets hope that the Landlord takes cleaning costs out of the deposit he has taken form the previous tenant and lets hope it is enough to cover the often heavy costs of cleaning between lets.

I'd much prefer the German system of unfurnished lets where the tenant provides their own appliances but I can't see Irish regulations allowing for that on one years leases.

Nobody keeps an oven or fridge clean enough between lets unless they are a salad eating vegetarian who neither fries or roasts.

There is nothing "free" about the property market in Ireland, nor has there ever been (but it's definitely worse in the last few decades). In fact it is a perfect example of how great free markets are when you compare our property market to examples of free markets.

Also, it is ridiculous to say that the landlord should take the cost of cleaning out of the previous tenant's deposit. Not only is it unethical, it is, thankfully, illegal. Cleaning a property between lets is entirely the responsibility of the landlord and is a standard cost that they factor in to their business plan.

skallywag

dotsman wrote: »

Cleaning a property between lets is entirely the responsibility of the landlord and is a standard cost that they factor in to their business plan.

Agreed.

That said a property should be returned as it was rented, e.g. , just for example, if the fridge and oven were clean on renting then they should be returned that way to the landlord on leaving.

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Koptain Liverpool

You're absolutely right to expect an apartment to be thoroughly cleaned when moving into it. <mod snip>

I'd be raging if in your situation.

I'm not sure asking for a rental discount is wise though. Best just to ensure to express to the landlord how unhappy you are with the state of the place and insist that he gets it cleaned as promised.

As others have mentioned staying in s hotel was off your own bat.

pilly

Shurwhynot wrote: »

I think you are reading too much into the hotel side of things! That was a decision made at the time out of anger to be honest, but i know the area and was in a hotel within 10 minutes. I wasn't going back up to my other rented accommodation for the weekend, I was going home to my parents house in a different part of the country again.

I've been renting since i was 18, and I'm now 31, and have never had to move into a dirty apartment/house in my life, even through my college years. I genuinely think it's outrageous that someone could rent out an apartment and not check that it's clean first.

I think this is a key post. You say yourself you moved to a hotel out of anger so it was perhaps an over-reaction.

I completely get why you're annoyed but just coming from the perspective of a LL, if he has said he'll sort it out today then I wouldn't go any further over it. You're just setting yourself for a bad relationship from the start.

Shurwhynot

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No we haven't moved stuff in yet, we will be doing that this weekend and meeting the LL again then as well.

When I first went into the apartment, it was still being lived in. With regard a mutual inspection, I guess with past history of never having any similar issues, I just expected the place to be clean. Lesson learned I agree

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syndrome777

our apartment was very dirty/sticky (who ever lived here before cooked like 5 times a day)
we scrubbed for days, and had to was all the curtains, had to get LL to professionally wash the carpet as it was dirty /smelly, brown

it wasn't even painted.
But the market is so bad, they know they can rent anything.

we would have to put a lot off effort to leave is as dirty as we got it :S

we were ringing them to arrange for paint job and in the end we asked just for the paint itself and done it ourselves

our LL is a big company if that makes an difference

axcel

I think it's perfectly fair to expect the apartment to be cleaned to a certain standard. And I can completely understand staying in a hotel if you wanted to, that's your prerogative and turning up to a new apartment late in the day when your tired to find it's not in a fit state, you've been caught unawares and have no cleaning stuff with you and it's a strangers dirt....yuck (I'm just imagining this as myself btw ) I'd want to get straight out of there. But anyway hotel is separate thing as you've said yourself and I think no point saying that to the landlord as probably have the opposite effect. But I would say lets push the date back because we couldn't move in. You have the pictures to prove it sent at the time you were meant to be moving in. He sounds reasonably enough, though probably too lax for not checking it himself, no harm asking anyway.
I'd always thought there was an onus on the tenant to leave the apartment in a fit state. But then I would put the responsibility on the landlord to ensure it was done or he'd have to sort it himself. Not professional cleaned altho if stated in the lease then it must be. Anywho hope it goes well.

Also just to add I don't think tenants or landlords should accept certain behaviours. I know there are nightmare types of each and unfortunately many people take the piss if they can but just because it's a landlords market or if it was a tenants market, we're all entitled to expect a certain standard when providing or paying for a service. I think this is a lesson for that landlord too, always check on a tenant when moving out and moving in.

Neyite

I've always pre-cleaned my rentals when I moved in. Anyone I've known or lived with has done similar. That way I know that the cloth used to scrub the toilet seat isn't the same one that was used on the fridge and that a proper disinfectant was used.

I've always cleaned when I left too, but assume the new tenants will also give it a once-over for their own peace of mind. I'd expect rubbish or broken furniture to be removed but don't think I'd decamp to a hotel until its done - especially over a long weekend when the LL cant go to the dump with stuff.

skallywag

What strikes me the most about this is that fact the LL did not even take a look at that the place in between lets. I know that the rental market in Ireland is way below standard when you look to countries where renting has been the norm for a long time, but this still strikes me as completely off the wall?

Neyite

skallywag wrote: »

What strikes me the most about this is that fact the LL did not even take a look at that the place in between lets. I know that the rental market in Ireland is way below standard when you look to countries where renting has been the norm for a long time, but this still strikes me as completely off the wall?

I'd wager he did and thought that he'd not bother to put himself out unless a fuss was made.

Jodotman

Similar thing happend me and friend before. Rang Landlord and said it would be the weekend before he could get down, this was a Monday. He said he and the wife wife will clean it but thought the other tenants would leave it in good nick. I sent him on pictures. Said I'd do it myself if he knocked 100 off next months rent for the cleaning supplies and the work. He gladly said yes. Apartment was in good
nick otherwise.

Took me and my friend around 5 hours each to properly clean it.

We were just delighted we got a decent place instead of having to commute