Coeliac parent - First Holy Communion mass

Inspired1

My son will soon be making First Holy Communion. I'm Coeliac so cannot receive the normal host. Wasn't an issue before due to our infrequent attendance but I would like to be able to go up with my son on the day as I feel this is a big part of it for him and hence very important to me.
I know churches provide gluten-free hosts or the opportunity for Coeliacs to drink from chalice instead but this all involves going to different part of church and more fuss than I want. I don't mind if I don't actually receive, but want to go up with my son without a fuss being made by minister/ priest attempting to give me Communion that I can't have.
I know younger kids go up and cross their arms across their chest to indicate they're not receiving but haven't seen any adults doing this. Would rather not have to go ask priest in the church - don't want this to be made into an 'alternative arrangement' scenario. Anyone know is there any generally understood way of going up with my son and discretely not receiving so we're no different to other parents and kids?

Thanks for any advice.

freshpopcorn

You've to talk to the priest or the class teacher about this.
These ceremonies are sometimes recorded and it will look awkward on camera. If the priest is trying to offer you common and your saying No!
It would make it easier. I know theirs a symbol people can do if they don't want to to receive but you'll look like a fool.(I think you've to cross your arms across your chest or something)

Gatling

Id take the bread in your hand and return to your seat nobody would be none the wiser

Ursus Horribilis

Gatling wrote: »

Id take the bread in your hand and return to your seat nobody would be none the wiser

This is your only option if you don't want to talk to the priest or teacher.

Regardless of whether you take the option above or give them the heads up in advance and don't receive the communion, nobody's going to take any notice. The children will be wrapped up in the event itself and nobody's going to be looking at the parents.

Wesser

Would eating that amount of gluten make you feel ill?

Inspired1

Wesser wrote: »

Would eating that amount of gluten make you feel ill?

Unfortunately it would - I'd be in agony for the day.
Might try taking it and not eating as suggested above. Thanks.

freshpopcorn

Inspired1 wrote: »

Unfortunately it would - I'd be in agony for the day.
Might try taking it and not eating as suggested above. Thanks.

Is the ceremony being recorded?If it make sure you do it discretely.

Gatling

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Is the ceremony being recorded?If it make sure you do it discretely.

Again the focus will be on the children on the day ,i highly doubt anyone will be focused on an adult going to the altar

freshpopcorn

Gatling wrote: »

Again the focus will be on the children on the day ,i highly doubt anyone will be focused on an adult going to the altar

I've seen recordings of these ceremonies. The ones I've seen the parents are standing behind the child and the camera is in front of them. Sometimes the parents revive first and then their child receives. If the parent the just stood their with the Communion in their hand. It would look out of place and the priest might be phased by it.
It would be a lot easier to have a chat with the teacher or priest to make sure everything went smoothly on the day.

Big Bag of Chips

You can talk to the priest, but if he's unlikely to recognise in the crowd on the day then there's little point! Crossing your hands on your chest is perfectly acceptable and I have seen many adults do it but never saw a child do it, funny enough!

amtc

Just an extra point. In my local church the priests will only give communion to regular attendees. You mention you only attend infrequently. Tbh I'm not sure how this is policed...it is a small church that is very popular for weddings, plus for regular attendees there are a number of churches in the local area so for example my mam will often go to Castleknock or Blanchardstown depending on mass timed.

Anyway I digress.

Is there any particular reason why you want to go up with your son? When I made mine admittedly many moons ago a big thing was made about 7 being the age of reason so we should do it on our own.

Anyway the only solution appears to be taking it in your hand and concealing it.

LynnGrace

Do you know for definite that you will be going to the altar with your child?
This can vary. Sometimes the children are called forward first to receive. As per pp, find out from the teacher if you will be accompanying the child to the altar.
Most of the focus will be on the children so in the event that you have to do something different, ( eg sip from chalice) it really won't be noticed.

freshpopcorn

The reason why I might come across a little over the top about making sure the priest knows is.
We've a local priest who'd gladly support you if he knew their was an issue but if you acted strangely when receiving he'd gladly ask you what are you doing in front of the whole church. To him the body of Christ isn't something to mess around with.

unknowngirl!!

I think you should just pop in a mention it to the class teacher. It really won't be an issue and they can advise you.

Taltos

Yup check with the school. At least when I made mine the children only went up to receive the host. Parents and the rest stayed sitting so you might be worried about nothing here.

Fakediamond

Is it possible that all communion is gluten free nowadays? I'd be careful about concealing and not eating it. If noticed by the priest or regular Mass attendees, they'd probably be shocked and horrified at showing such disrespect to the Host (body of Christ)!

freshpopcorn

Fakediamond wrote: »

Is it possible that all communion is gluten free nowadays? I'd be careful about concealing and not eating it. If noticed by the priest or regular Mass attendees, they'd probably be shocked and horrified at showing such disrespect to the Host (body of Christ)!

Their was a time when their was a gluten free Communion but their was an issue with it and now you get to take a sip of the water/wine instead! (This is in my experience anyway)

Big Bag of Chips

Gluten free communion or a sip of the chalice is available on request.

There's no need for this to be a big deal. Hands crossed across your chest is the symbol that you don't wish to take communion. The priest will know what you mean. There could be any number of reasons for it. He won't bat an eye. He might give you a nod, or a blessing, or may take no notice of you whatsoever, but he will not try to force communion into your hand or mouth.

SusieBlue

I've been to at least one communion annually over the last 5-6 years and have never seen the parents go up with the child. The children have always gone up themselves as far as I've seen.

The only religious ceremony I've seen where an adult accompanies the child is the confirmation with the sponsor.

Are you certain your child's school involves the parents? If so, would maybe talking to the child's teacher help? She/he may have a rapport with the priest and be able to come up with a solution so you can take part without drawing attention to yourself on the day.

freshpopcorn

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Are you certain your child's school involves the parents? .

It's done in certain areas!

Scraggs

Inspired1 wrote: »

My son will soon be making First Holy Communion. I'm Coeliac so cannot receive the normal host. Wasn't an issue before due to our infrequent attendance but I would like to be able to go up with my son on the day as I feel this is a big part of it for him and hence very important to me.
I know churches provide gluten-free hosts or the opportunity for Coeliacs to drink from chalice instead but this all involves going to different part of church and more fuss than I want. I don't mind if I don't actually receive, but want to go up with my son without a fuss being made by minister/ priest attempting to give me Communion that I can't have.
I know younger kids go up and cross their arms across their chest to indicate they're not receiving but haven't seen any adults doing this. Would rather not have to go ask priest in the church - don't want this to be made into an 'alternative arrangement' scenario. Anyone know is there any generally understood way of going up with my son and discretely not receiving so we're no different to other parents and kids?

Thanks for any advice.

You should say it to the priest before the day, it's not as big a deal as you think it is. The priest once aware will make sure to have some available. At the last 3 communions I've been to the kids went up seperately though to receive but I suppose it varies from parish to parish.

Toots

I'd be kinda wary about going back to your seat with the wafer in your hands. What do you intend to do with it afterwards?

Inspired1

Toots wrote: »

I'd be kinda wary about going back to your seat with the wafer in your hands. What do you intend to do with it afterwards?

That's what I'm thinking too - wouldn't want to just dump it. Apart from being worried that I'd put myself on a fast-track to the fires of hell, I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to it. Son doesn't know for sure yet if we'd be going up with him so will double-check that. If we will be, may just need to bite the bullet and speak to priest. Don't want to do anything to cause stress or draw negative attention.......such as being escorted out of the church by an altar boy!!

Thanks all for your input.

Neyite

You can't actually take it without eating it, it's probably one of the worst things you can do in the eyes of the church. You must put it in your mouth either by your hand or by the priests/Eucharistic minister at the time. The only people who can remove the body of Christ from a church us a priest or a EM to administer to someone too ill to go to mass.

If you try to keep it in your hand, expect to be grabbed on the arm at the very least and asked to put it in your mouth but trust me, a commotion is very likely, and if you refuse to put the Host in your mouth when they ask, they will take it back. You say you don't want to look out of place, this is one way to guarantee you get noticed for all the wrong reasons.

Talk to the priest beforehand, ask for gluten free to be discreetly given or a blessing instead.

Ursus Horribilis

I assume that's a joke! I'm not religious but any priests I've encountered in recent years have been very pragmatic and live in the real world.

LynnGrace

Inspired1 wrote: »

That's what I'm thinking too - wouldn't want to just dump it. Apart from being worried that I'd put myself on a fast-track to the fires of hell, I wouldn't want to be disrespectful to it. Son doesn't know for sure yet if we'd be going up with him so will double-check that. If we will be, may just need to bite the bullet and speak to priest. Don't want to do anything to cause stress or draw negative attention.......such as being escorted out of the church by an altar boy!!

Thanks all for your input.

You may find that you are worrying unnecessarily. As I said upthread, a lot of the time, the children are called forward to receive first. I have attended numerous communions over the years, and have never seen the parents accompanying the child to the altar.

I know this may vary from place to place. Best bet, find out through the child, or ask the teacher. If it transpires that you will be doing so, mention to the priest the fact that you are coeliac.

washiskin

Some parishes have gluten-free Hosts and, in some cases where they don't, may allow you to sip from the chalice as mentioned.
Best to talk to the Priest in advance....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-priests-make-glutenfree-communion-wafers-available-to-massgoers-34695637.html

Neyite

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I assume that's a joke! I'm not religious but any priests I've encountered in recent years have been very pragmatic and live in the real world.

Nope. Not a joke at all. The whole Catholic doctrine is based on transubstantiation. That is, the bread literally, not metaphorically, turns into the actual body of Christ during the communion rite. His actual flesh. So priests guard the consecrated host under lock and key. Have you ever seen at the end of communion the priest eats all the leftover host and drinks the wine, then wipes the cup and plates etc and they go back into the tabernacle behind him and it's locked.

If it wasn't a big deal an alterboy would clean up. Strict Catholic upbringing here, that's how I know a bit about this stuff.

cormie

Really surprised how many people seem to care it's being recorded and the possibility it might look out of place, who cares? Just say no thanks and don't worry what anyone else thinks. I'm sure there's countless parents getting their children baptised and all the rest because the backwards requirements a lot of schools have to accept a child in the first place and then not wanting their child to feel left out when all the others are doing it, who don't take communion themselves when going through all the rigmarole. If I somehow find myself in a church, it's because I'm there to support someone, I don't take part in any of the rituals other than sitting, standing and a handshake, peace is peace after all. Walk up and back with your son if you want, you don't have to do anything else you don't want to and if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem alone.

freshpopcorn

cormie wrote: »

Really surprised how many people seem to care it's being recorded and the possibility it might look out of place, who cares? Just say no thanks and don't worry what anyone else thinks. I'm sure there's countless parents getting their children baptised and all the rest because the backwards requirements a lot of schools have to accept a child in the first place and then not wanting their child to feel left out when all the others are doing it, who don't take communion themselves when going through all the rigmarole. If I somehow find myself in a church, it's because I'm there to support someone, I don't take part in any of the rituals other than sitting, standing and a handshake, peace is peace after all. Walk up and back with your son if you want, you don't have to do anything else you don't want to and if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem alone.

I suggested that the OP didn't do anything funny with the host because I know a priest who'd gladly call her up on it in front of the whole church and possibly if it was being recorded.If he knew their was an issue or somebody simply didn't want to receive he'd be fine but if you did anything funny with the host he'd call you out on it in front of the whole church.(I'm thinking of the kid)

Neyite

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I suggested that the OP didn't do anything funny with the host because I know a priest who'd gladly call her up on it in front of the whole church and possibly if it was being recorded.If he knew their was an issue or somebody simply didn't want to receive he'd be fine but if you did anything funny with the host he'd call you out on it in front of the whole church.(I'm thinking of the kid)

I think any priest would. There have been attempts in the past where people attempted to take the host away from the altar and it didn't end well.

http://www.catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=30514

JENSEN BEACH, Fl. (Catholic Online) - A 33 yr old man from Connecticut named John Samuel Ricci is now in Police custody. His bond was set at $2,000 and he will stay in the Martin County Jail until he appears in Court on Dec. 11, 2008.

He attempted to steal consecrated communion hosts from the priest while he was standing in line to receive the Eucharist on Saturday, November 8, 2008 at St. Martin de Porres Catholic Church in Jensen Beach, Florida.
Reports from the Martin County Sherriff's Office indicate that he was cornered by six or seven parishioners who detained him until Police arrived at the Church. The priest and a parishioner were injured in the scuffle which ensued.

Ricci has been charged with battery, theft and disruption of a Church service. He was the last one in the line to receive the Eucharist at the Saturday Morning Mass. All of the other communicants had returned to the pews.


Carl Marszewski, 66, is a parishioner who was at the Holy Mass. He told a local reporter "Everyone else was on their way back to the pews to kneel and pray. I was approaching my pew across the church from where he was when it happened. I ran over there to stop him from running out with the communion."

Reports indicate that Ricci then cursed at Marszewski and 83-year-old Fr. James Malgano. Next he pushed them down. "It took six people to hold him down," Marszewski said. He suffered a heart attack in his valiant effort to protect the consecrated Eucharist.

As to why the man from Connecticut would attempt to steal the Body of Christ, the brave parishioner gave further insights, "He was seen on a camera we have here stealing something else from the altar two days earlier," he said. "There are so many reasons why he could have done this, especially with the issues of all of these different cults and covens that actually want to desecrate the offering to their god -- the god of darkness."

Another member of the parish who was present indicated that when Ricci put the first consecrated host in his pocket, he was politely asked to put it into his mouth. He not only refused but actually threw the Body of the Lord on the floor. He then allegedly ranted about being a member of the American Civil Liberties Union.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church strongly condemns this desecration of the Body of the Lord as a sacrilege: "2120. Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us."

The Code of Canon Law indicates that such an action excommunicates the offender "Can. 1367 One who throws away the consecrated species or, for a sacrilegious purpose, takes them away or keeps them, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See"

Big Bag of Chips

OP, there really is no need to make an issue out of this. You won't be the first person the priest has encountered not wishing to take communion. My friend is coeliac too. She spoke to the priest beforehand (she knew him) and told him she didn't want to take communion. He offered the gluten free option or the chalice and she insisted that she didn't want any fuss or anything out of the ordinary on the day and that instead she just wouldn't take communion. He then told her to just cross her hands across her chest and he would simply give her a blessing.

I think in your attempt to not make a fuss, you risk turning this into a much bigger deal than it has to be.

chuckles30

OP - speak to the priest. If he's expecting you, he can have the gf host in a smaller container and it won't even be noticed. Or cross your arms. If it's a big class and you don't know him personally, maybe pop into the sacristy in the morning to remind him & at least then he might remember what you're wearing....as we can look totally different dressed up.

DO NOT take a sip from the chalice as advised here, unless it is a chalice that he hasn't put a piece of the larger host in. If it's the main chalice, a sip from it will already contain gluten and last thing you want on the day is to be sick. Again, you would need to talk to the priest to be sure. I have a coeliac friend...hence my knowledge on this one.

Also, please don't take the host and try to conceal it. That's a big no no and hugely disrespectful.

cormie

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I suggested that the OP didn't do anything funny with the host because I know a priest who'd gladly call her up on it in front of the whole church and possibly if it was being recorded.If he knew their was an issue or somebody simply didn't want to receive he'd be fine but if you did anything funny with the host he'd call you out on it in front of the whole church.(I'm thinking of the kid)

Yeah, so simply refuse it and that's that. If anyone causes a fuss over it, that's their problem and their own lack of openness that not everyone has to partake in such rituals.

power pants

cormie wrote: »

Really surprised how many people seem to care it's being recorded and the possibility it might look out of place, who cares? Just say no thanks and don't worry what anyone else thinks. I'm sure there's countless parents getting their children baptised and all the rest because the backwards requirements a lot of schools have to accept a child in the first place and then not wanting their child to feel left out when all the others are doing it, who don't take communion themselves when going through all the rigmarole. If I somehow find myself in a church, it's because I'm there to support someone, I don't take part in any of the rituals other than sitting, standing and a handshake, peace is peace after all. Walk up and back with your son if you want, you don't have to do anything else you don't want to and if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem alone.

Exactly, I'm not Catholic and really wished my child wasn't going ahead with this.

Nobody will be paying too much attention to the adults.

Hannibal_Smith

I thought, if you take communion you have to either take it in your mouth or your hand, but either way it's in your mouth before you leave the altar and you bless yourself as you walk away? I wouldn't be the most religious of people and I certainly wouldn't know about recordings etc....but I would think it would be very noticeable if you walk away with it in your hand!

To me your options are :-

1. Talk to the priest and take the wine/gluten free option.
2. Go up with your child, but don't take the wafer.
3. Don't go up with your child. I thought the kids always went up themselves anyway, as the focus is on them and they'd have it we'll rehearsed. But maybe it differs across the country.

It's literally 2 seconds out of a day, that literally no one will remember or be looking at you for. Don't worry about it and enjoy the day!

witchgirl26

OP any of the communions I've been at (my own, friends and nephews) the child went up themselves for communion - well really in a group from the class - and the parents/rest of the congregation went up afterwards. I know at mine, quite a few people didn't go up to receive communion (from the adults not the ones making obviously) and it was no big deal at all. Same at my nephews' ones. I'd check with the school what the story is in regards that and if it is a case that, as a parent, you're going up with the child, then maybe let the school know what the story is and liaise in a bit with the priest involved with the communion so that they can help make arrangements. You probably won't be the first coeliac they've come across and can advise.

MouseTail

I'm not seeing the issue, just cross your hands across your chest. You won't be the only parent or grandparent doing this, people do it for lots of reasons, of a different Faith/atheist/food intolerance/failure to fast an hour before etc. No-one, not the priest or the congregation will bat an eyelid.

neemish

Gatling wrote: »

Id take the bread in your hand and return to your seat nobody would be none the wiser

What ever you do, don't do this! It is incredibly insulting to people of faith. In alot of Churches, you are asked to consume the Host before you walk away.

Chat to the priest beforehand. This is a much more common occurence than you might imagine and he might be able to arrange the low gluten host there. Alternatively, the crossing of arms on the chest is not just for children - it is a universal sign that the person is asking for a blessing. The priest won't fall down when he sees it!

infogiver

I doubt any parent will be going to the altar with a first communicant unless there is a special needs issue.
The sooner the better the Sacraments are prepared for outside of School so that only families who participate in the Parish are involved in the Sacraments.
And I'm speaking as a practising Catholic.
Hopefully soon candidacy for the Sacraments will be subject to attendance at Sunday school with the State schools having no role in preparation.
It will be much better If there are only 5 or 6 children for communion but the 5 or 6 sets of parents actually had a clue about what was going on instead of looking at the whole thing as nothing more then a photo opportunity for themselves and their child.
It's so disrespectful to see the OP being advised to pretend to take communion and dispose of it.

neemish

Whether or not the parents go up with the children is really down to numbers. If there is a Ceremony with less than 20 kids, its a great idea. Any more than that, and it's a disaster. In theory, I absolutely agree that parents/families should accompany their child the first time they receive the Eucharist. On a practical level, it just won't work in many places.

Infogiver is correct in that even advising to just pretend to receive the Host and later dispose of it shows an incredible lack of knowledge about what Mass is actually about.

Hannibal_Smith

infogiver wrote: »

I doubt any parent will be going to the altar with a first communicant unless there is a special needs issue.
The sooner the better the Sacraments are prepared for outside of School so that only families who participate in the Parish are involved in the Sacraments.
And I'm speaking as a practising Catholic.
Hopefully soon candidacy for the Sacraments will be subject to attendance at Sunday school with the State schools having no role in preparation.
It will be much better If there are only 5 or 6 children for communion but the 5 or 6 sets of parents actually had a clue about what was going on instead of looking at the whole thing as nothing more then a photo opportunity for themselves and their child.
It's so disrespectful to see the OP being advised to pretend to take communion and dispose of it.

It shouldn't be down to schools at all. Your child is 8, do you want them to make communion? If yes, the church should provide the appropriate preparation meetings etc. If no, grand. There is an educate together school in our area who's pupils will be making their communion with the local Catholic schools. Are you saying they should be banned from making their communion because they go to a state school which is not religious?

infogiver

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

It shouldn't be down to schools at all. Your child is 8, do you want them to make communion? If yes, the church should provide the appropriate preparation meetings etc. If no, grand. There is an educate together school in our area who's pupils will be making their communion with the local Catholic schools. Are you saying they should be banned from making their communion because they go to a state school which is not religious?

Hi Hannibal
No that's not what I'm saying at all.
I would like if there was no preparation for the Sacraments at any school.
If your child is of an age where you feel that they could appreciate the Sacrament of Eucharist then you contact the Parish Comittee set up for that purpose and find out what the requirements are to have your child included as a candidate.
There would be attendance at First Eucharist preparation classes overseen by the Committee (so many classes say, from January until the Communion day in June), possibly on Saturday afternoon, the child accompanied by an adult who they are close too, the preparation could be linked in to going to Mass, what the Gospel was about that weekend, the elevation etc.
On Communion day then you would know that the children lining up for communion were prepared and at least one of the adults accompanying them were also prepared for the Sacrament.
If only 6 or 7 families are prepared to follow the plan then so be it.
I think that mass on the weekend and 3/4 hour of preparation in the Parish Centre from January till May is entirely doable.
What do you think?

Hannibal_Smith

infogiver wrote: »

Hi Hannibal
No that's not what I'm saying at all.
I would like if there was no preparation for the Sacraments at any school.
If your child is of an age where you feel that they could appreciate the Sacrament of Eucharist then you contact the Parish Comittee set up for that purpose and find out what the requirements are to have your child included as a candidate.
There would be attendance at First Eucharist preparation classes overseen by the Committee (so many classes say, from January until the Communion day in June), possibly on Saturday afternoon, the child accompanied by an adult who they are close too, the preparation could be linked in to going to Mass, what the Gospel was about that weekend, the elevation etc.
On Communion day then you would know that the children lining up for communion were prepared and at least one of the adults accompanying them were also prepared for the Sacrament.
If only 6 or 7 families are prepared to follow the plan then so be it.
I think that mass on the weekend and 3/4 hour of preparation in the Parish Centre from January till May is entirely doable.
What do you think?

Like I said it shouldn't be connected to schools at all. It's not a discussion for this forum though. This is about helping the op deal with the circumstances on the day.

juno10353

Inspired1 wrote:

My son will soon be making First Holy Communion. I'm Coeliac so cannot receive the normal host. Wasn't an issue before due to our infrequent attendance but I would like to be able to go up with my son on the day as I feel this is a big part of it for him and hence very important to me. I know churches provide gluten-free hosts


Do have a chat with the person organising the First Holy Communion in the school. It is a common situation and there may be other parents dealing with same issue. By discussing in advance you know what to expect on day, and can wxplain it to your little boy too. This is a happy event, so make it stress free by ensuring you have it covered in advance, then just relax and enjoy day.

infogiver

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Like I said it shouldn't be connected to schools at all. It's not a discussion for this forum though. This is about helping the op deal with the circumstances on the day.

If the OP had even the vaguest idea about the Sacrament of Eucharist then there wouldn't be a thread, but you are right, this is a thread for another forum.

CassieManson

Neyite wrote:

Nope. Not a joke at all. The whole Catholic doctrine is based on transubstantiation. That is, the bread literally, not metaphorically, turns into the actual body of Christ during the communion rite. His actual flesh. So priests guard the consecrated host under lock and key. Have you ever seen at the end of communion the priest eats all the leftover host and drinks the wine, then wipes the cup and plates etc and they go back into the tabernacle behind him and it's locked.

Of course if transubstantiation really happens there would be no gluten present! By providing gluten free hosts isn't the church really admitting that it's still bread?

Neyite

CassieManson wrote: »

Of course if transubstantiation really happens there would be no gluten present! By providing gluten free hosts isn't the church really admitting that it's still bread?

Well, that would be an ecumenical matter, and veering off topic so I'll leave it there. :P

.......

This post has been deleted.

cormie

Just had a look at countmeout, seems it's not possible to defect as it was before so this may indeed be a way to be excommunicated from the church

A_Sober_Paddy

Gatling wrote: »

Id take the bread in your hand and return to your seat nobody would be none the wiser

Doing that would be highly wrong and not in keeping with the teaching of the church, if your going to bring your child into the faith you need to lead by example...

I'm not of any faith, and I'm very much against endoctration of kids by parents because it's the done thing