Minister Noonan talks about building heights in Dublin

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

Proposals for 4 storeys at the proposed glass bottle site should result in firings. We can't waste anymore central land. Also more SDZs, the abandoned industrial area north of broom bride station is screaming for an sdz

The sdz are a farce though. Look at what they are getting built. Even worse, abp would likely allow taller than the bloody council!

Sam Russell

Idbatterim wrote: »

The sdz are a farce though. Look at what they are getting built. Even worse, abp would likely allow taller than the bloody council!

ABP always had higher standards the DCC.

Elemonator

myshirt wrote: »

Maybe Dublin could stop stealing Limerick's water then aswell.

Maybe Dublin should stop subsidising the rest of the country, including Limerick? Seeing as we're all digging up tired childish squabbles?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Elemonator wrote: »

Maybe Dublin should stop subsidising the rest of the country, including Limerick? Seeing as we're all digging up tired childish squabbles?

And shoot anyone who applies for planning permission for a one-off house

Bastards.

BonnieSituation

Limerick's water is it?

Does the Shannon start at Parteen so?

---

Dublin needs to go high-rise in certain areas. But there is architectural merit to keep certain aspects of the city low-rise and as they are and gradually increase size over the coming decades.

The IFSC and Docklands N and S should have very little height restrictions.

namloc1980

Proposed 40 storey development in Cork.

cgcsb

namloc1980 wrote: »

Proposed 40 storey development in Cork.

Cool proposal. Unfortunately such a development wouldn't even have a hope of getting planning in Dublin, never mind Cork.

patrickbrophy18

For those of you who mightn't know or may have forgotten, there was a proposal put forward by the Progressive Democrats back in 2006 to transform the area around Dublin Port and Poolbeg into a Manhattan style mecca as per the artists impression below:



It's worth noting that the Progressive Democrats are now a discontinued political party. Still, the above picture shows what would be a more iconic version of Dublin with a more metropolitan appeal.

Throw in The Eastern Bypass and Dublin would look very like New York. I say that because the The Eastern Bypass would be to Dublin what the Manhattan Bridge is to New York:



Imagine skyscrapers in lieu of the cranes and warehouses.

patrickbrophy18

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Throw in The Eastern Bypass and Dublin would look very like New York. I say that because the The Eastern Bypass would be to Dublin what the Manhattan Bridge is to New York:

Now, given that this roadway crisscrosses the DART line and Rock Road QBC, it would only be fitting that it doubles as a rail and cycle route so that it benefits other uses besides the private car.

MJohnston

I've never been more glad of Irish infrastructure planning failures than with the loss of the Eastern bypass, personally.

zetalambda

cgcsb wrote: »

Cool proposal. Unfortunately such a development wouldn't even have a hope of getting planning in Dublin, never mind Cork.

A development like this would be more likely to get planning in Cork.

Peregrine

cgcsb wrote: »

Cool proposal. Unfortunately such a development wouldn't even have a hope of getting planning in Dublin, never mind Cork.

There's a much higher chance of that being built in Cork than Dublin. We're severely held back at every turn by DCC, An Taisce, ABP and residents. Cork, not so much.

Between Cork County Hall and The Elysian, Cork has actually been home to the tallest buildings in the Republic for the last 50 years.

zetalambda

Peregrine wrote: »

There's a much higher chance of that being built in Cork than Dublin. We're severely held back at every turn by DCC, An Taisce, ABP and residents. Cork, not so much.

Between Cork County Hall and The Elysian, Cork has actually been home to the tallest buildings in the Republic for the last 50 years.

Anything over 6 or 7 storeys in Dublin and you run into problems with this crowd above. Interestingly, The Elysian didn't receive a single objection when it was going through planning. This 40 storey tower will definately receive objections but worse case scenario, they'll knock 5 or 10 floors off.

yoke

I'm not sure building high rise buildings in Dublin City centre is as good an idea as it seems at first glance.

Lived in a city not that much bigger than Dublin for a short time in the USA, and a car journey that would take 5 minutes at 10pm would take 50 minutes at 5:30pm, every single weekday pretty much.

Looked to me like it had a negative effect on the city centre there, as no one went there to do anything if they could avoid it.

A better idea might be to just build bigger roads/car parks if required, and just try to incentivise businesses to change their working hours and/or allow working from home if possible (while continuing the urban sprawl I guess), content in the knowledge that even if the city's land requirement doubles, the radius of the city would only need to increase by a small amount to facilitate it

MJohnston

Building bigger roads is both a poor idea, and doesn't actually work. It's been shown that increasing traffic capacity doesn't reduce congestion because more people drive and fill the extra capacity. We need fewer drivers, more public transport users, pedestrians, and cyclists.

New Goat

zetalambda wrote: »

Anything over 6 or 7 storeys in Dublin and you run into problems with this crowd above. Interestingly, The Elysian didn't receive a single objection when it was going through planning. This 40 storey tower will definately receive objections but worse case scenario, they'll knock 5 or 10 floors off.

There were a few reasonable buildings given permission during the boom, like the 36 storey watchtower in the point village (construction actually started and the developer lost funding from the bank I think).

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/skyscrapers-scaling-new-heights-to-beat-council-cutoff-point-26421000.html

L1011

The sometimes open nightclub under the point square is in the basements of the Watchtower.

knipex

MJohnston wrote: »

Advocating moving things to Cork or Limerick belies a misunderstanding of why the companies locating themselves in Dublin do so.

Not so.

He was arguing for something to give companies a reason to look at the mid-west as an alternative.

If the M20 was completed you could travel Cork to Limerick as faster than you could drive the M50 at rush hour. Add the M18 to Galway and you link the 2nd 3rd and 4th cities into what could be a realistic economic and social entity to counterbalance the Dublin region.. It would benefit both areas, relieve pressure eon Dublin and open up real growth along a Cork, Limerick, Galway corridor.

astrofool

yoke wrote: »

I'm not sure building high rise buildings in Dublin City centre is as good an idea as it seems at first glance.

Lived in a city not that much bigger than Dublin for a short time in the USA, and a car journey that would take 5 minutes at 10pm would take 50 minutes at 5:30pm, every single weekday pretty much.

Looked to me like it had a negative effect on the city centre there, as no one went there to do anything if they could avoid it.

A better idea might be to just build bigger roads/car parks if required, and just try to incentivise businesses to change their working hours and/or allow working from home if possible (while continuing the urban sprawl I guess), content in the knowledge that even if the city's land requirement doubles, the radius of the city would only need to increase by a small amount to facilitate it

If people can already live in the city, less will have to drive there.

Peregrine

yoke wrote: »

I'm not sure building high rise buildings in Dublin City centre is as good an idea as it seems at first glance.

Lived in a city not that much bigger than Dublin for a short time in the USA, and a car journey that would take 5 minutes at 10pm would take 50 minutes at 5:30pm, every single weekday pretty much.

Looked to me like it had a negative effect on the city centre there, as no one went there to do anything if they could avoid it.

A better idea might be to just build bigger roads/car parks if required, and just try to incentivise businesses to change their working hours and/or allow working from home if possible (while continuing the urban sprawl I guess), content in the knowledge that even if the city's land requirement doubles, the radius of the city would only need to increase by a small amount to facilitate it

The traffic you saw wasn't caused people living in tall buildings driving to work 1km away. It was people in sprawling suburbs trying to get in and out of the city. It's the same problem we have in Dublin.

A good mix of high-density residential, commercial and retail in the city centre will reduce the number of people who has to commute. Supplement it with modern public transport ideas that involve more than just buses running on daysul driving up and down O'Connell Street and College Green.

yoke

You are both right, it was definitely people from the suburbs causing the jams.

The town was Seattle - I met very few professional people who had houses in the city centre though, it was mostly offices/businesses which were in the high-rise buildings with maybe some luxury apartments thrown in - it looked like a normal professional worker could not compete with businesses for living area in the city centre, so everyone commuted from the suburbs and instead negotiated different working hours (e.g. finishing at 4pm every day instead of 5pm, working from home sometimes, etc) which made commuting bearable.

cgcsb

yoke wrote: »

I'm not sure building high rise buildings in Dublin City centre is as good an idea as it seems at first glance.

Lived in a city not that much bigger than Dublin for a short time in the USA, and a car journey that would take 5 minutes at 10pm would take 50 minutes at 5:30pm, every single weekday pretty much.

Looked to me like it had a negative effect on the city centre there, as no one went there to do anything if they could avoid it.

A better idea might be to just build bigger roads/car parks if required, and just try to incentivise businesses to change their working hours and/or allow working from home if possible (while continuing the urban sprawl I guess), content in the knowledge that even if the city's land requirement doubles, the radius of the city would only need to increase by a small amount to facilitate it

What are you blithering on about?

murphaph

knipex wrote: »

Not so.

He was arguing for something to give companies a reason to look at the mid-west as an alternative.

If the M20 was completed you could travel Cork to Limerick as faster than you could drive the M50 at rush hour. Add the M18 to Galway and you link the 2nd 3rd and 4th cities into what could be a realistic economic and social entity to counterbalance the Dublin region.. It would benefit both areas, relieve pressure eon Dublin and open up real growth along a Cork, Limerick, Galway corridor.

Spreading the butter far too thin. To be honest Dublin is in competition (if it's lucky!) with Amsterdam, Frankfurt etc. These sorts of jobs will never locate in Cork or Limerick.

There is no company locating in Dublin these days that would opt for Cork, Limerick or Galway if the M20 existed. That's the reality. I support the M20 fully but not for these reasons.

knipex

murphaph wrote: »

Spreading the butter far too thin. To be honest Dublin is in competition (if it's lucky!) with Amsterdam, Frankfurt etc. These sorts of jobs will never locate in Cork or Limerick.

There is no company locating in Dublin these days that would opt for Cork, Limerick or Galway if the M20 existed. That's the reality. I support the M20 fully but not for these reasons.

Dublin is loosing potentiality employers due to costs, lack of accommodation etc etc.

Some of these have moved to Cork or Limerick where costs are significantly less (Northern Trust spring straight to mind).. However the lack of employment pool and small relative hinterland do hurt both cities. By linking them road, rail, what ever you reduce that disincentive.

murphaph

To be honest Dublin is a small city that has plenty of brown field land to develop upwards (should perhaps designate a minimum height of 20 storeys in the Docklands and Heuston Gate areas) and there are huge land banks along the Kildare Route rail line which are already designated as SDZs.

Dart Underground needs building to open up these land banks properly.

Other "under pressure" cities would kill for Dublin's options.

bear1

That Cork proposal, how long until we would know if it got approval or not?

Peregrine

bear1 wrote: »

That Cork proposal, how long until we would know if it got approval or not?

Several months. An application hasn't been lodged yet. Once the application is in, it'll take a few months to reach a decision. Objections would slow that down. Then someone might appeal the decision to ABP. That will take a few months too.

It's a crazy system we have in this country where one angry person can hold up a whole development. See Apple Data Centre in Athenry. Approved by GCC, appealed to ABP, approved by ABP, appealed to The High Court. Stuck in The High Court.

MJohnston

Doesn't seem to be unique to the Republic though - take a look at the fun happening with the A6.

bear1

Peregrine wrote: »

Several months. An application hasn't been lodged yet. Once the application is in, it'll take a few months to reach a decision. Objections would slow that down. Then someone might appeal the decision to ABP. That will take a few months too.

It's a crazy system we have in this country where one angry person can hold up a whole development. See Apple Data Centre in Athenry. Approved by GCC, appealed to ABP, approved by ABP, appealed to The High Court. Stuck in The High Court.

Madness.
There should be at least a minimum amount of objections received before abp are obliged to hear them out.
One eejit stopping a tonne of construction jobs, prosperity and future jobs shouldn't be allowed.
Genuinely hope Cork becomes a dark horse economically.
Get the m20 done, the m28, transatlantic flights, big port, direct motorway to dublin and speed up the train speeds to and from Dublin would turn it into a mini powerhouse.
Hope no objections come through, would have a lovely skyline with the other two "skyscrapers"

Victor

bear1 wrote: »

There should be at least a minimum amount of objections received before abp are obliged to hear them out.

These things are decided on merit, not popularity or who shouts the loudest.