Failure to allow emergency service vehicles to pass

pure.conya

I don't know if many of you out there have noticed, but there seems to be a total lack of knowledge regarding what to do and how to go about it quick enough when Irish drivers have emergency service vehicles with blues and twos on right behind them. Recently I seen an ambulance stuck behind a car that was stuck at a red light and the driver sat there with arms folded as I was screaming at him from the path to drive on or move out of the way of the ambulance with full lights and siren on behind him, again this morn I spotted a garda bike with lights on trying to pass a car going over a bridge, for some reason this driver decided they should drive as close to the middle of the road as possible all the way over the bridge, it was so nonsensical the poor garda had a lokk of bewilderment as he eventually passed the car and he looked like he didn't know whether to carry on with his original mission or pull the driver over to have a word.

I am sure if it was their relative stuck in an ambulance or needing emergency assistance from the garda they would be screaming at these clueless drivers to move out of the way, instead we have drivers who seem to not grasp the reality that precious seconds can make all the difference when attending a crash site or a crime taking place.

I think there should be a widespread national campaign at the petrol pumps to educate people on how quickly they should start pulling off the road to create a space for emergency service vehicles to pass, it shouldn't be a case of hearing sirens in the distance and only deciding you'll pull in after several wasted seconds of having the panicked emergency service drivers patiently stuck behind you simply because you're too dumb to pull your car over and wait 30 seconds or a minute to see if the sirens pass.

whomitconcerns

The problem at the red light is that the driver cannot legally get out of the way by breaking same, there is no exception in law. However common sense would dictate move to the side but not into the junction. If it was a fast moving junction and my only option was into junction, i wouldn't move either with the greatest of reluctance.

Personally speaking of i hear a siren i will slow and/or pull in before a junction or bottleneck until i can ensure that is not behind me

Alun

In my experience of having lived in 3 different countries prior to moving to Ireland, I'd say that Irish ES vehicles seem to use their sirens much less than in any of the other 3, only leaving it to the very last minute when they get stuck in traffic. At that point many drivers don't have a lot of options regarding moving over especially in heavy or stopped traffic. In my opinion, if they used their sirens a bit more when approaching traffic, they'd have fewer problems.

Isambard

it's important to say if you can't get out of the way, don't stop...drive on to somewhere you can pull over.

Alun

Alun wrote: »

In my experience of having lived in 3 different countries prior to moving to Ireland, I'd say that Irish ES vehicles seem to use their sirens much less than in any of the other 3, only leaving it to the very last minute when they get stuck in traffic. At that point many drivers don't have a lot of options regarding moving over especially in heavy or stopped traffic. In my opinion, if they used their sirens a bit more when approaching traffic, they'd have fewer problems.

Hate to disagree, but i drive one of those emergency vehicles. Drivers in this country don't check their mirrors nearly enough and whatever noise they have on in the car is more than enough that they can't hear the sirens when the vehicle is right behind them.
The majority of drivers slam on their brakes when they hear/see an emergency vehicle, thereby forcing the vehicle to slam on too

cml387

You should move over but do so safely and not panic.
I've seen footage of the Jack Lynch tunnel of a car pulling out of lane to let an ambulance through only to run straight into another car.

whomitconcerns

Isambard wrote: »

it's important to say if you can't get out of the way, don't stop...drive on to somewhere you can pull over.

Doesn't work that way if your at a red light. But certainly if you are on an open road keep to the left and keep moving

bear1

I had this situation last week.
Ambulance is coming up behind us fast, I spot it in my mirror and get ready to pull over. There is a woman on the phone behind me as well.
I pull over and indicate that I'm doing this (you can hear the sirens really well) and what does your wan do?
Stops behind me, then passes me out to jump the queue and then blocks the ambulance cause she can no longer move over.
Right fcuking eejit.

whomitconcerns

bear1 wrote: »

I had this situation last week.
Ambulance is coming up behind us fast, I spot it in my mirror and get ready to pull over. There is a woman on the phone behind me as well.
I pull over and indicate that I'm doing this (you can hear the sirens really well) and what does your wan do?
Stops behind me, then passes me out to jump the queue and then blocks the ambulance cause she can no longer move over.
Right fcuking eejit.

Seen that myself before

Isambard

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Doesn't work that way if your at a red light. But certainly if you are on an open road keep to the left and keep moving

if you are at a red light, you're already stopped. My comment stands.

_Kaiser_

2 weeks ago I saw a young wan pull out from a housing estate directly in front of an oncoming ambulance with lights flashing etc. Silly twit then panicked and stopped dead in front of it :rolleyes:

Then you have others who try to dive in behind the ambulance to skip the traffic

_Kaiser_

bubblypop wrote: »

Hate to disagree, but i drive one of those emergency vehicles. Drivers in this country don't check their mirrors nearly enough and whatever noise they have on in the car is more than enough that they can't hear the sirens when the vehicle is right behind them.
The majority of drivers slam on their brakes when they hear/see an emergency vehicle, thereby forcing the vehicle to slam on too

To be fair, the type of emergency vehicle you drive will ALWAYS result in that behavior - or driving ridiculously below the limit for no reason - as you never know whether the fella driving it will just (let you) carry on, or decide that you're doing just a few km/h too many!

Me I drive on until safe to move over, and will speed up if safe to do so in the interim so as to minimise delays (generally talking about motorways here where even doing 120 km/h is a stretch too far for many drivers)

looksee

Its true that people need to pay attention to emergency vehicles, but in general I am always amazed at how traffic can clear a centre path where there is no evidence that one is possible - most people really do their best.

jca

bubblypop wrote: »

Hate to disagree, but i drive one of those emergency vehicles. Drivers in this country don't check their mirrors nearly enough and whatever noise they have on in the car is more than enough that they can't hear the sirens when the vehicle is right behind them.
The majority of drivers slam on their brakes when they hear/see an emergency vehicle, thereby forcing the vehicle to slam on too

Sorry to hijack this thread but I was nearly run down by an ambulance this afternoon while walking across a pedestrian crossing. The driver blatantly broke the red light after changing lane because one lane was stopped to let me cross. I'm seriously considering going to the Guards about this drivers behaviour. I thought they had to obey traffic lights.

ScouseMouse

Its unfortunate your business to get across the road was more important than an ambulance on a possible life or death mission.

evolving_doors

jca wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this thread but I was nearly run down by an ambulance this afternoon while walking across a pedestrian crossing. The driver blatantly broke the red light after changing lane because one lane was stopped to let me cross. I'm seriously considering going to the Guards about this drivers behaviour. I thought they had to obey traffic lights.

Did ya not see it coming? Yer supposed to be looking left and right whilst crossing.

jca

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Its unfortunate your business to get across the road was more important than an ambulance on a possible life or death mission.

So running people down by breaking a red light is acceptable driving behaviour in your book? There were two other people on the crossing too, one of them being a pregnant woman.

gctest50

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Its unfortunate your business to get across the road was more important than an ambulance on a possible life or death mission.

If it was life or death, they should have lights n sirens on, otherwise it's just another Merc van with a bit of yellow paint


( and a sh!tty conversion job so it might go on fire at any moment )

ScouseMouse

I teach my kids to stop, look both ways, and then proceed. You can argue all you like about right of way, or similar, but its kinda hard if you are dead after being hit by a tonne+ of metal.

If the ambulance was on an emergency call to your wife/girlfriend/son or daughter, would your posts be the same?

ScouseMouse

gctest50 wrote: »

If it was life or death, they should have lights n sirens on, otherwise it's just another Merc van with a bit of yellow paint


( and a sh!tty conversion job so it might go on fire at any moment )

The thread is about not yielding to an emergency vehicle with LIGHTS AND SIRENS ON.

Nowhere does the relevant poster say they were not on.

jca

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Did ya not see it coming? Yer supposed to be looking left and right whilst crossing.

I did see him coming. He was in the left lane on a two lane road (both lanes are in the same direction) part of a one way system. I had the green pedestrian light and was halfway across when he swerved from the left lane into the right lane and straight over the crossing while I and the other people were on the crossing, all while he had a red light against him.

Mint Sauce

I recall once driving on the M1 into Belfast, in the driving lane, doing 70mph, and overtaken at speed by a fleet of PSNI jeeps and and bikes, no lights or sirens. Came up behind a couple of lorrys, road behind me clear, began over take, and mid way through, another PSNI bike appeared far in the distance in my mirror, and was filling my mirrors before the overtake was complete. Bear in mind, I was still doing 70, no lights or sirens from him. Under them circumstances, had I sped up, could I had been pulled for speeding?

I did instead, maintain my speed, and went back in to the driving lane at the first opertunity, with the bike,going by me, and flying off into the distance, I assumed to catch up with his colleagues.

It was not a prickish move from me to hold up an emergency vehicle, but simply driving within the law, and unsure of the bikers intention.

cython

jca wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this thread but I was nearly run down by an ambulance this afternoon while walking across a pedestrian crossing. The driver blatantly broke the red light after changing lane because one lane was stopped to let me cross. I'm seriously considering going to the Guards about this drivers behaviour. I thought they had to obey traffic lights.

jca wrote: »

So running people down by breaking a red light is acceptable driving behaviour in your book? There were two other people on the crossing too, one of them being a pregnant woman.

jca wrote: »

I did see him coming. He was in the left lane on a two lane road (both lanes are in the same direction) part of a one way system. I had the green pedestrian light and was halfway across when he swerved from the left lane into the right lane and straight over the crossing while I and the other people were on the crossing, all while he had a red light against him.

You've failed to provide a key piece of information in all your posts, specifically whether or not the ambulance was using sirens/blue lights? If it was, then you should really have considered that it might do exactly what it did, and proceeded only with extreme caution. It's common for such vehicles in an emergency to proceed through a red light at a junction with conflicting traffic or pedestrian crossings lit (and rightly so, I might add!), once they have established that they are being afforded right of way by other users. If there was a clear sightline from the crossing and its accesses to the ambulance, and it had emergency sirens and lights activated, then they could reasonably assume that people would have yielded priority to them.

Perhaps they could have gone through the crossing more carefully, but unless they had no lights/sirens, or you have left out some other mitigating circumstance, I don't see any other failure on their side.

jca

cython wrote: »

You've failed to provide a key piece of information in all your posts, specifically whether or not the ambulance was using sirens/blue lights? If it was, then you should really have considered that it might do exactly what it did, and proceeded only with extreme caution. It's common for such vehicles in an emergency to proceed through a red light at a junction with conflicting traffic or pedestrian crossings lit (and rightly so, I might add!), once they have established that they are being afforded right of way by other users. If there was a clear sightline from the crossing and its accesses to the ambulance, and it had emergency sirens and lights activated, then they could reasonably assume that people would have yielded priority to them.

Perhaps they could have gone through the crossing more carefully, but unless they had no lights/sirens, or you have left out some other mitigating circumstance, I don't see any other failure on their side.

Very solicitor like answer, yes he had the lights and siren on. He was in the left lane about 3 vehicles back from the crossing. I and the two others assumed(rightly or wrongly) that he was staying in the left lane so we kept walking on the crossing into the right lane. He then swerved out of the left lane into the right lane straight towards the three of us. The other two people got to the path but he damn nearly hit me with his driver side mirror. I'll see how I feel about it in the morning but I'm still angry with his behaviour.

So lights & sirens on & you decided to walk out onto the crossing anyway.....
No sympathy

jca

bubblypop wrote: »

So lights & sirens on & you decided to walk out onto the crossing anyway.....
No sympathy

I walked out because I had right of way and the traffic was stopped obeying the red light as was the ambulance at that time. He then decided to change lane against the red light and drive onto the crossing where three people were walking:mad:<snip, abusive> he used to drive for a local cab firm here in town with a typical cab drivers attitude. I'll call to the Guards in the morning and see what they think. Are you allowed to break red lights? I wouldn't think so..

jelutong

Are emergency and police vehicles allowed to ignore red lights? I hope not.

doolox

Seen it several times with emergency vehicles passing through a red light when they have acertained that they have been seen and acknowledged by all the other cars at the junction most of whom, even with a green light, have the wit to stop and let them through. I have also seen it happen that a witless pedestrian, usually wearing earphones, will get a nice surprise when confronted with the flashing blue lights on an emergency vehicle he is not able to hear.....

ScouseMouse

doolox wrote: »

Seen it several times with emergency vehicles passing through a red light when they have acertained that they have been seen and acknowledged by all the other cars at the junction most of whom, even with a green light, have the wit to stop and let them through. I have also seen it happen that a witless pedestrian, usually wearing earphones, will get a nice surprise when confronted with the flashing blue lights on an emergency vehicle he is not able to hear.....

I think you have nailed it there. "HAVE THE WIT to stop"

jca

jca wrote: »

I walked out because I had right of way and the traffic was stopped obeying the red light as was the ambulance at that time. He then decided to change lane against the red light and drive onto the crossing where three people were walking:mad: He's a fcuking knacker anyway he used to drive for a local cab firm here in town with a typical cab drivers attitude. I'll call to the Guards in the morning and see what they think. Are you allowed to break red lights? I wouldn't think so..

Ah i think we get the real issue here now!!

TheChizler

I've seen a few documentaries, both Irish and from the UK, where emergency vehicle drivers give interviews and say they rather drivers just maintain their position rather than move out of the way, unless they're totally blocking the road. They're trained to spot paths around vehicles and it's better to follow those than react to a vehicle suddenly changing their position without warning.

jelutong

jelutong wrote: »

Are emergency and police vehicles allowed to ignore red lights? I hope not.

Would you prefer that the ambulance or fire engine or Garda car on the way to an emergency at your house sat & waited at all the red traffic lights?

Stephen15

bubblypop wrote: »

Would you prefer that the ambulance or fire engine or Garda car on the way to an emergency at your house sat & waited at all the red traffic lights?

No but it could cause another accident which would delay the response to the patient/suspect/fire/RTA needing more emergency vehicles to respond and. It's in everyones interests for the Ambulance/Fire crew/Gardai to arrive at an emergency safely.

Of course emergency should be able to break red lights but only if it's safe to so.

Stephen15

Stephen15 wrote: »

Of course emergency should be able to break red lights but only if it's safe to so.

As they are trained to do

A Battered Mars Bar

Yeah just 2 weeks ago I was stopped at lights looking to merge onto the N11. Hear sirens said I'd wait a second or two to establish if they were coming down the road as the lights were now green. Moron d*ckface behind me starts blowing his horn. Love to have smacked him. Clueless useless drivers all over the country but Dublin breeds a special kind of impatient useless driver.

pablo128

Stephen15 wrote: »

No but it could cause another accident which would delay the response to the patient/suspect/fire/RTA needing more emergency vehicles to respond and. It's in everyones interests for the Ambulance/Fire crew/Gardai to arrive at an emergency safely.

Of course emergency should be able to break red lights but only if it's safe to so.

My uncle was a Fireman/ambulance driver. They are very well trained in driving those kinds of vehicles in those situations.

gctest50

bubblypop wrote: »

As they are trained to do

A bit of training doesn't make it bulletproof

punisher5112

pablo128 wrote: »

My uncle was a Fireman/ambulance driver. They are very well trained in driving those kinds of vehicles in those situations.

Great until you meet someone like the pedestrian who thinks its fine from above posts to continue walking because he is at a crossing.

If emergency service vehicles had to obey all reds and other traffic laws they would never get to an incident in time.

To the pedestrian if you see blue think is it coming my way and stay put.
If you hear a siren look all around and consider will it come this way.

Don't look see it coming and stupidly think ah sure he is in lane one I'll cross anyway... No wonder so many get knocked down running out into traffic.

punisher5112

gctest50 wrote: »

A bit of training doesn't make it bulletproof

No but the training prepares them in how to spot those that think its fine to walk out or pull out or many other instances of complete idiocy.

grogi

jelutong wrote: »

Are emergency and police vehicles allowed to ignore red lights? I hope not.

Of course they are.

Rothmans

jca wrote: »

I walked out because I had right of way and the traffic was stopped obeying the red light as was the ambulance at that time. He then decided to change lane against the red light and drive onto the crossing where three people were walking:mad: He's a fcuking knacker anyway he used to drive for a local cab firm here in town with a typical cab drivers attitude. I'll call to the Guards in the morning and see what they think. Are you allowed to break red lights? I wouldn't think so..

So you decide to cross the road when you can see an ambulance with lights and sirens on approaching, travelling to the scene of an emergency, in order to assert your right of way as a pedestrian?

I really do despair. Some people I do not understand!

And yes, emergency service vehicles can break lights and plenty other rules of the road. The lights and sirens are very helpful in bringing this fact to the attention of other road users!!!

largepants

Rothmans wrote: »

So you decide to cross the road when you can see an ambulance with lights and sirens on approaching, travelling to the scene of an emergency, in order to assert your right of way as a pedestrian?

I really do despair. Some people I do not understand!

And yes, emergency service vehicles can break lights and plenty other rules of the road. The lights and sirens are very helpful in bringing this fact to the attention of other road users!!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'm beginning to think this pedestrian is on the wind up. I hope so anyway.

punisher5112

largepants wrote: »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'm beginning to think this pedestrian is on the wind up. I hope so anyway.

From what I see I would hazard a guess they are genuine.

I see quite a few do this even if not at an actual crossing.

jca

grogi wrote: »

Of course they are.

Any evidence to support that 4 word reply?

jca

jca wrote: »

Any evidence to support that 4 word reply?

Try the road traffic acts

GM228

jca wrote: »

Any evidence to support that 4 word reply?

S87 (1) of the Road Traffic Act 2010 (as amended) exempts Gardaí, ambulance (including some private ambulances) and fire bridgade from the requirements of the Road Traffic Acts.

cdeb

From some parts of the RTA. Not all. So ambulance drivers can't drive intoxicated for example.

I thought they weren't exempted from red lights either - it was allowed out of common decency for the person in the back. But an ambulance driver then would be liable in the event of a crash while breaking the lights.

The section quoted above lists the exact exemptions; bit hard to check on mobile though, so can't see if red lights is one

GM228

cdeb wrote: »

From some parts of the RTA. Not all. So ambulance drivers can't drive intoxicated for example.

I thought they weren't exempted from red lights either - it was allowed out of common decency for the person in the back. But an ambulance driver then would be liable in the event of a crash while breaking the lights.

The section quoted above lists the exact exemptions; bit hard to check on mobile though, so can't see if red lights is one

Correct they can't be intoxicated, impaired etc, but are exempt from most other areas of the RTAs including all traffic and parking regulations.

They would not autmoatically be liable for an accident when passing a red light as they are exempt from obeying a red light, liability may only come into play if they were guilty of dangerous driving. Remember a green light to another driver does not imply a right of way - you only proceed if safe to do so and no other vehicles are in your way, even a vehicle on a green must yield right of way to emergency vehicles if they have commenced to cross their path and not endanger the emergency services.

Allah snackbar

I've always wondered about this , sure the car might not see the ambulance in time but in most cases it's not a matter of life or death , they just have the blues and twos on to clear traffic , I'd imagine in the vast majority of cases unless it's a multiple rta or a terrorist attack the golden hour comes into play , most city's would have a fairly quick response time as opposed to rural areas where emergency services can take well over an hour to get to an emergency and that would be on clear roads mostly

grogi

Allah snackbar wrote: »

I've always wondered about this , sure the car might not see the ambulance in time but in most cases it's not a matter of life or death , they just have the blues and twos on to clear traffic , I'd imagine in the vast majority of cases unless it's a multiple rta or a terrorist attack the golden hour comes into play , most city's would have a fairly quick response time as opposed to rural areas where emergency services can take well over an hour to get to an emergency and that would be on clear roads mostly

It is not your job to decide if there is enough emergency to let the ambulance pass.

Allah snackbar

grogi wrote: »

It is not your job to decide if there is enough emergency to let the ambulance pass.

I won't disagree with you on that one