Deposit

mossie11

Hi, I placed a substantial deposit on a second hand car with a reputable Main Dealer with my Visa Debit Card. I did not sign any paperwork.

Can I now change my mind and can I get my deposit returned to me?

Atlantic Dawn

Did you get a receipt, if so any terms & conditions on the receipt? Ball is most likely in dealers court as to whether to give your deposit back.

mossie11

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Did you get a receipt, if so any terms & conditions on the receipt? Ball is most likely in dealers court as to whether to give your deposit back.

No receipt, as I thought my bank statement would be proof of deposit.

Atlantic Dawn

Call the dealer first thing tomorrow or even tonight if they are open late and explain you want to cancel, they may be fine with it, the sooner the better before they put things in motion to add you as an owner to the car.

richardsheil

Which part of the definition of deposit did you miss?

mossie11

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Call the dealer first thing tomorrow or even tonight if they are open late and explain you want to cancel, they may be fine with it, the sooner the better before they put things in motion to add you as an owner to the car.

Great news, spoke to the salesman, he said no problem with a full refund as I was a good and valued customer. I am on my fourth car from them and I can assure you I will be back for my fifth.

So thank you Atlantic Dawn for your great advice.

James Delaney

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Did you get a receipt, if so any terms & conditions on the receipt? Ball is most likely in dealers court as to whether to give your deposit back.

*****************

Hi, I'm in same position as original poster, & did not get a receipt for a small deposit - however the dealer refuses to return my deposit.

I viewed the SIMI order form which caters for the 'treatment' of the deposit (its non refundable) - however I did not sign any order form at this garage & no receipt was issued by the garage advising the deposit was non refundable.

Any views on this ???

dubrov

If you didn't sign anything, they have no proof that you agreed to a non-refundable deposit

the_pen_turner

dubrov wrote: »

If you didn't sign anything, they have no proof that you agreed to a non-refundable deposit

Surely all deposits are non refundable by default. Housing deposits are the ecxeption

Peregrinus

The general point of a deposit is to secure the completion of the transaction. Both sides are committed. Having accepted your deposit, the seller cannot now sell the goods to someone else (even if they offer a higher price, or earlier settlement, or other advantages) but in return for giving up this possiblity he has the assurance that he can sell them to you, or at least that if he can't because you refuse or are unable to complete he can compensate himself for his lost opportunity with your deposit.

In other words, unless agreed otherwise, a deposits is binding both ways. So the fact that James doesn't have a receipt saying the deposit is non-refundable is no help to him. The deposit is non-refundable by default, unless he has an agreement with the seller that says it's refundable.

Having said that, as shown earlier in the thread, even though not bound to dealers may choose to refund deposits to preserve goodwill, so it's always worth asking.

Peregrinus

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Surely all deposits are non refundable by default. Housing deposits are the ecxeption

A deposit for the purchase of a house is non-refundable, unless the contract provides for it to be refunded in certain events.

But in general if you contract to buy a house, pay a deposit, but fail or refuse to complete the sale, the seller keeps your deposit, sells the house to someone else, compensates himself out of the deposit for any additional costs and/or reduction in price that he suffered in the second sale, and then returns the balance of the deposit - if there is any balance to return.

dubrov

Without a signed contract, there is no assumption in law that a deposit is non-refundable.

If you agree to purchase a house and have not signed binding contracts, I can assure you the deposit is 100% refundable.

Edit: The above does not actually appear correct. A quick look at the CPCC website site suggests that the payment of a deposit indicates the entering of a contract to actually buy a product. It is not clear how easy it would be to force a refund. It actually seems more likely you could be sued to complete the purchase.

I guess with a house purchase they generally indicate it is full refundable.

ELM327

If you paid by credit card you will have recourse via your credit card company.
Document your request to cancel in writing (ensuring to include that you have not signed anything so no terms bind the deposit as non refundable)

rex-x

dubrov wrote: »

Without a signed contract, there is no assumption in law that a deposit is non-refundable.

If you agree to purchase a house and have not signed binding contracts, I can assure you the deposit is 100% refundable.

It works the other way around, by default deposits are non refundable, you need a contract to make it refundable.

ELM327 wrote: »

If you paid by credit card you will have recourse via your credit card company.
Document your request to cancel in writing (ensuring to include that you have not signed anything so no terms bind the deposit as non refundable)

Credit card company wont help you chargeback a deposit as it is legitimate for the dealer to hold onto it in the event you change your mind.

ELM327

rex-x wrote: »

Credit card company wont help you chargeback a deposit as it is legitimate for the dealer to hold onto it in the event you change your mind.

Having years of experience at both ends of the PCI, they will.


https://chargeback.com/reason-code/13-7-cancelled-merchandise-services/

Burden of proof is on the seller to show that the transaction was not cancelled, and provide T+C that buyer signed up to agreeing that the transactoon was non refundable.

rex-x

ELM327 wrote: »

Having years of experience at both ends of the PCI, they will.


https://chargeback.com/reason-code/13-7-cancelled-merchandise-services/

Burden of proof is on the seller to show that the transaction was not cancelled, and provide T+C that buyer signed up to agreeing that the transactoon was non refundable.

That is an American link.... In Ireland a deposit is by default non refundable so no T + C are necessary. I have done a few chargebacks for non received goods in the past and they were very anal about making sure it wasn't a change of mind as in this case before they would proceed

ELM327

rex-x wrote: »

That is an American link.... In Ireland a deposit is by default non refundable so no T + C are necessary. I have done a few chargebacks for non received goods in the past and they were very anal about making sure it wasn't a change of mind as in this case before they would proceed

Visa and Mastercard rules are the same globally, all reason codes and regulations are the same.



If you had said "yes" if it was a change of mind, they would have asked you for proof of cancellation. If you had proof of cancellation you would have been refunded.


I think I'll take my years in PCI over your anecdotal few chargebacks, but I'm sure you wont.

CrankyHaus

ELM327 wrote: »

Having years of experience at both ends of the PCI, they will.


https://chargeback.com/reason-code/13-7-cancelled-merchandise-services/

Burden of proof is on the seller to show that the transaction was not cancelled, and provide T+C that buyer signed up to agreeing that the transactoon was non refundable.

I actually had this problem before (on a deposit that it was agreed was refundable) and the credit card issuer refused to do a chargeback.


This was Revolut though, who don't really have much of a support structure (their customer service was clueless people who spoke English as a second language). A proper bank may be different.

ELM327

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I actually had this problem before (on a deposit that it was agreed was refundable) and the credit card issuer refused to do a chargeback.


This was Revolut though, who don't really have much of a support structure (their customer service was clueless people who spoke English as a second language). A proper bank may be different.

This is another issue, the card issuers can be a bit useless. If you write to Visa or Mastercard directly with proof from the issuer they will enforce your chargeback rights.

Credit card issuers are bound by strict terms.

CrankyHaus

ELM327 wrote: »

This is another issue, the card issuers can be a bit useless. If you write to Visa or Mastercard directly with proof from the issuer they will enforce your chargeback rights.

Credit card issuers are bound by strict terms.

Thanks. Got a link?


Everything I found online by the card company pointed me towards the issuer.

ELM327

Not a public one, no.
But there are plenty of contact paths for card issuers online.

antix80

James Delaney wrote: »

Hi, I'm in same position as original poster, & did not get a receipt for a small deposit - however the dealer refuses to return my deposit.

I viewed the SIMI order form which caters for the 'treatment' of the deposit (its non refundable) - however I did not sign any order form at this garage & no receipt was issued by the garage advising the deposit was non refundable.

Any views on this ???

Not only is a deposit non-refundable. It is also evidence that you entered into an agreement to buy the car.

I don't know why people are suggesting a credit card chargeback. The charge was approved by the customer and the good/service provided was the fact that the garage didn't sell the car to someone else. Had the garage sold the car to someone else, it would be a good reason to ask for a chargeback.

ELM327

antix80 wrote: »

Not only is a deposit non-refundable. It is also evidence that you entered into an agreement to buy the car.

I don't know why people are suggesting a credit card chargeback. The charge was approved by the customer and the good/service provided was the fact that the garage didn't sell the car to someone else. Had the garage sold the car to someone else, it would be a good reason to ask for a chargeback.

Buyer cancellation is a valid reason for chargeback.

antix80

ELM327 wrote: »

Buyer cancellation is a valid reason for chargeback.

And on what grounds does the buyer have to cancel their contract in this case?

James Delaney

dubrov wrote: »

Without a signed contract, there is no assumption in law that a deposit is non-refundable.

If you agree to purchase a house and have not signed binding contracts, I can assure you the deposit is 100% refundable.

Edit: The above does not actually appear correct. A quick look at the CPCC website site suggests that the payment of a deposit indicates the entering of a contract to actually buy a product. It is not clear how easy it would be to force a refund. It actually seems more likely you could be sued to complete the purchase.

I guess with a house purchase they generally indicate it is full refundable.

*********
True.
But the deposit on the car was based on a Manual version of the car, which was €2K+ lower than the Automatic version which I ordered (without signing an order form)

The dealer refused to c9mplete the deal, based on the price he quoted (which later transpired to be the price of the Manual version).

So perhaps, I could sue for non performance of contract ?

A great case - of a mixed up Salesman.

dubrov

James Delaney wrote: »

*********
True.
But the deposit on the car was based on a Manual version of the car, which was €2K+ lower than the Automatic version which I ordered (without signing an order form)

The dealer refused to c9mplete the deal, based on the price he quoted (which later transpired to be the price of the Manual version).

So perhaps, I could sue for non performance of contract ?

A great case - of a mixed up Salesman.

It is pretty clear that the "the business cannot provide you with the item you agreed to buy".
Ring them and if you paid by card, then threaten a chargeback.
Otherwise threaten small claims court.

James Delaney

dubrov wrote: »

It is pretty clear that the "the business cannot provide you with the item you agreed to buy".
Ring them and if you paid by card, then threaten a chargeback.
Otherwise threaten small claims court.

**********

Have done so, but it was charged via a Debit Card ????