General reliability/running costs

motorfan

This is probably going to sound silly and make me look like a right twat but,

Assuming the driving conditions are the same for all cars - Are cars like Mercedes and BMW inherently more expensive overall to keep
than say brands such as Honda?

I mean in terms of everyday use, maintenance required, wear and tear,
cost of servicing and parts.

Are they more .... fragile on the road? As in do parts tend to break more
often than 'reliable' brands? And when or if they do go wrong, are the same parts more expensive than 'everyday' brands like VW etc

Also, are sportier models of cars prone to more issues?
For example a type R civic vs a base model Civic or Standard BMW vs Msport

Thanks for helping a confused noob!

colm_mcm

Yes. Generally speaking they are as they often prioritise comfort, performance or aesthetics over longevity or ease of repair.

That's a pretty general view though, and you'll often find that premium brands can have more humble underpinnings.

motorfan

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yes. Generally speaking they are as they often prioritise comfort, performance or aesthetics over longevity or ease of repair.

That's a pretty general view though, and you'll often find that premium brands can have more humble underpinnings.

Thanks Colm,

What about sporty models of the same brands, for example Type R Civics vs Standard?

colm_mcm

Hondas don't break.

You'd have to factor in how a car is driven. Will a buyer of a sportier model drive differently to the one buying the base model?

Eric Cartman

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yes. Generally speaking they are as they often prioritise comfort, performance or aesthetics over longevity or ease of repair.

That's a pretty general view though, and you'll often find that premium brands can have more humble underpinnings.

I wouldn't quite say that.

They are more feature loaded so theres more to go wrong, but they're quite well engineered in general. I found my bmw's pretty easy to work on and parts are readily available.

if you compared a 3 series and say an avensis , standard servicing would be of a similar cost, body panels new - a bit more, engine parts - perhaps 10% more.

You'll see a lot of classic merc's and bm's kept very well.


Type R's and other sport variants obviously cost a lot more to keep.

I love Sean nos

motorfan wrote: »

Thanks Colm,

What about sporty models of the same brands, for example Type R Civics vs Standard?

I would think the sporty models as you say would be just fine reliability wise if they were driven by the same people as the standard models and in the same way, but they're not, which is understandable. No point in having more horses under the bonnet if you don't take them for a gallop now and again.

Treat any car well and service it at the recommended intervals and you're likely to be fine in my experience.

colm_mcm

You'd need to factor in the cost and process of fitting those body panels. The by-the-book methods on BMWs are astonishing.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I wouldn't quite say that.

They are more feature loaded so theres more to go wrong, but they're quite well engineered in general. I found my bmw's pretty easy to work on and parts are readily available.

if you compared a 3 series and say an avensis , standard servicing would be of a similar cost, body panels new - a bit more, engine parts - perhaps 10% more.

You'll see a lot of classic merc's and bm's kept very well.


Type R's and other sport variants obviously cost a lot more to keep.

Jack the Stripper

Hondas don't break that's a good one.

motorfan

Thanks for the replies,

So something like a Honda Accord, Mazda 6 etc would most likely cost less than a 3 Series or C Class, similar mileage year etc? These would all be petrols too.

Same with a standard civic over type R?


Just looking at options, but don't want to break the bank either, since i've no reason to change other than getting itchy really. I usually have sensible 'normal' cars, so Im not sure with bigger brands or sport models.

colm_mcm

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

Hondas don't break that's a good one.

They've never broken, ever. Even the ones that do. Never.

I love Sean nos

Don't need to go sporty. If you're looking for a change, just get something with a larger engine that's easier to drive.

motorfan

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Don't need to go sporty. If you're looking for a change, just get something with a larger engine that's easier to drive.

Yeah I am between two minds between sporty and bigger/ comfier, that's why I was also looking at the 3 Series and C Class.

colm_mcm

3 series or C class wouldn't exactly be big cars.

Are these falling into the sporty category?

What do you drive now?

motorfan

colm_mcm wrote: »

3 series or C class wouldn't exactly be big cars.

Are these falling into the sporty category?

No, the sporty category would be the Type R or something similar

colm_mcm wrote: »

What do you drive now?

1.2 5th gen Polo

I love Sean nos

What do you see yourself driving this car for OP? What mileage will you be doing? Do you need a family car? Lots of boot space?

If you're looking for something fun and you don't need a whole heap of room, I'd suggest a Fiesta ST or a Focus ST. Plenty there to keep you occupied.

colm_mcm

Have you driven many different cars?

How did you decide on a 1.2 Polo

motorfan

colm_mcm wrote: »

How did you decide on a 1.2 Polo

Thats my current driver!

motorfan

I love Sean nos wrote: »

What do you see yourself driving this car for OP? What mileage will you be doing? Do you need a family car? Lots of boot space?

If you're looking for something fun and you don't need a whole heap of room, I'd suggest a Fiesta ST or a Focus ST. Plenty there to keep you occupied.

Average to low miles per year, around 10k-15k.
No massive room needed.

Not keen on the ST fiestas.

colm_mcm

Is the polo your own?

I love Sean nos

If you're looking for something a little more plush, I'd look for a nice T5 Volvo S80.

motorfan

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is the polo your own?

Yes

I love Sean nos

motorfan wrote: »

Not keen on the ST fiestas.

Why not? Genuine question to narrow preference.

motorfan

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Why not? Genuine question to narrow preference.

Just aesthetics, not my cup of tea in that department.
Thats just my opinion tho

cnocbui

Think I can help you out there.

I bought a Honda Civic Type R when it was only a year old and had low mileage.

I have owned and driven it for 11 years now. I do my own maintenance and repairs, and have changed the oil, oil filter and air filter regularly and have only used top quality single ester synthetics. I have gotten tyre shops to fit new tyres when needed.

In those 11 years, I have had to fit 2 batteries, one tie rod joint - the only NCT fail item in that time - one set of brake pads, though they are due to be replaced again soon, and I have had to get piston and seal kits for each brake caliper - so 4 sets - which I fitted myself.

If you can find a car with normal performance that can beat that for reliability and low maintenance costs, good luck.

motorfan

cnocbui wrote: »

Think I can help you out there.

I bought a Honda Civic Type R when it was only a year old and had low mileage.

I have owned and driven it for 11 years now. I do my own maintenance and repairs, and have changed the oil, oil filter and air filter regularly and have only used top quality single ester synthetics. I have gotten tyre shops to fit new tyres when needed.

In those 11 years, I have had to fit 2 batteries, one tie rod joint - the only NCT fail item in that time - one set of brake pads, though they are due to be replaced again soon, and I have had to get piston and seal kits for each brake caliper - so 4 sets - which I fitted myself.

If you can find a car with normal performance that can beat that for reliability and low maintenance costs, good luck.

Thanks for the info, I wouldnt be too handy working on them myself but its good information from an owner.

What gen type R did you have?

cnocbui

2005 EP3

I love Sean nos

What age are you OP? That's probably going to be more of a restriction on what you can drive than running and maintenance thanks to insurance costs.

Four Phucs Ache

My uncle picked up a 2000 s280 in 2012 for peanuts.Loved it.

Failed nct in 13 due to imbalance on rear suspension.

Airbag struts.Had to replace the pair.

1800 fitted.

motorfan

Had a look at a few a4's and a3's, with the TFSI engines 1.4 and 1.8.
I would be a bit concerned over reliability with a turbo engine, has anyone had experience with these engines?

Unfortunately most that I have found so far seem to be automatic.

motorfan

I love Sean nos wrote: »

What age are you OP? That's probably going to be more of a restriction on what you can drive than running and maintenance thanks to insurance costs.

Yeah tell me about it, but I have been quoted for anything I am looking at, I have had to forget about certain cars.
Best to check that before getting hopes up on a particular car.

Del2005

motorfan wrote: »

Had a look at a few a4's and a3's, with the TFSI engines 1.4 and 1.8.
I would be a bit concerned over reliability with a turbo engine, has anyone had experience with these engines?

Unfortunately most that I have found so far seem to be automatic.

When buying 2nd hand the reliability of the brand is a way smaller impact than the previous owner. The most reliable car treated like crap will be worse than an unreliable car which got well looked after.

Unless you are a complete car nut then auto is the way to go, there are very few players you can legally enjoy a manual gearbox and consider what the majority of your driving will be.

motorfan

Del2005 wrote: »

When buying 2nd hand the reliability of the brand is a way smaller impact than the previous owner. The most reliable car treated like crap will be worse than an unreliable car which got well looked after.

Unless you are a complete car nut then auto is the way to go, there are very few players you can legally enjoy a manual gearbox and consider what the majority of your driving will be.

I would prefer a manual just for the feeling, and this might be bad information on my part but aren't autoboxes more expensive to fix and more likely to need fixing?

Del2005

motorfan wrote: »

I would prefer a manual just for the feeling, and this might be bad information on my part but aren't autoboxes more expensive to fix and more likely to need fixing?

Each to their own but for the amount of times you can enjoy working a manual gearbox is very few and far between.

More expensive to fix yes, more likely to need fixing no.

motorfan

motorfan wrote: »

I would prefer a manual just for the feeling, and this might be bad information on my part but aren't autoboxes more expensive to fix and more likely to need fixing?

The VAG DSG suto needs lubricant services at 60k km intervals iirc.
I'd take a DSG auto over a manual no problem, fantastic piece of engineering.

Now that considered, a DSG is more likely to give trouble than a manual gearbox. To think otherwise is insanity IMO.

Trouble will still be rare though.

Pac1Man

Del2005 wrote: »

Each to their own but for the amount of times you can enjoy working a manual gearbox is very few and far between.

Not true. A well timed heel & toe while entering a roundabout or a Lidl carpark at low speed beats pulling a paddle every day of the week.

I currently drive a low powered manual diesel appliance and I get more fun out of that than I have any right to!

What you prefer is obviously up to you though.

motorfan

Anyone know if the TFSI engines suffer from the timing chain issues that affect some of the other VAG engines?
I checked some threads here, but they are quite old so I am wondering how these engines have aged since.

Are they generally good engines, or would I be better off trying to stick to Naturally aspirated engines?

joe199

I've my ep3 type r 2002 now 8 years and only replaced​ a battery and brake caliper in that time other than that it's been bullet proof and has potentialy earned a full respray for it's self cause couldn't part with it to be honest

New Goat

Del2005 wrote: »

Each to their own but for the amount of times you can enjoy working a manual gearbox is very few and far between.

That's depending on where you live.. Flat roads, grid layout, or mainly motorway driving then auto is grand.

Hilly community or secondary roads give me a manual please

motorfan

joe199 wrote: »

I've my ep3 type r 2002 now 8 years and only replaced​ a battery and brake caliper in that time other than that it's been bullet proof and has potentialy earned a full respray for it's self cause couldn't part with it to be honest

That great, another good report for those ep3's.

Can I ask you what kind of mileage you do in it and what mileage is on the clock?

What kind of MPG do you get from it?