Last chance for Wheaten Terrier

jack01986

She is about 6 years old and has become fairly aggressive to other dogs over the last few years. She gets plenty of exercise with long daily walks and interaction with people. There has been a few incidents with other dogs where she is the aggressor these can come out of the blue but are generally with much smaller dogs but they are becoming more common. We have had a trainer out a few times but it hasn't helped. Open to any suggestions as to what we could do. What options do we have?

deadlybuzzman

You said she interacts with people but how often would she interact with other dogs?

jack01986

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

You said she interacts with people but how often would she interact with other dogs?

Not very regularly anymore. She used to play with our old Newfie but she died and we didn't get another dog. The odd time she will play with a friends golden retriever and they are fine together. In any of the incidents she has only picked on smaller dogs.

Knine

Many terriers, including the ISCWT are not known for being very dog friendly. If you attended any of the shows & stood around the terrier ring you will see many terrier breeds trying to spar with each other!

When you say she is on her last chance? How is she getting acess to these other dogs? Surely she is kept on a lead & a muzzle if need be?

I think you need the help of a qualified behaviourist to help you manage her. I would certainly not give up on her.

Latatian

Talk to a behaviourist or dog trainer who specializes in dog-aggressive dogs. .

If she's on a short lead and you warn people, and move away from others to give them space, you can avoid most incidents. I am... not sympathetic to people who will allow their dogs to run up to the dogs of a stranger who is politely requesting space while backing away (having had an elderly, frail dog with cancer who got knocked over more than once by the dogs of idiots). If your dog is on-leash and you do not approach other dogs, and you request space from others, you are doing your bit. A muzzle will also help.

Tell us more about the incidents. What happened? Was she on or off leash? With you or let to roam? Was it over food, toys, any specific patterns? How badly were the other dogs injured, was there broken skin, gashes etc or no marks at all?

At the moment it's hard to tell if you have an irredeemable cujo savaging dogs innocently minding their own business, or a terrier who is giving normal corrections to unruly pups.

What do you mean by 'on her last chance'?

VonVix

I agree with Knine. Most a Wheaten Terriers I have met have struggled socially with unfamiliar dogs, from my experience it has been very important to be selective about the dogs they (the ones I have handled) interact with and to have a clear understanding of the body language given.

Out of interest, how did your trainer attempt to help the situation?

jack01986

Knine wrote: »

Many terriers, including the ISCWT are not known for being very dog friendly. If you attended any of the shows & stood around the terrier ring you will see many terrier breeds trying to spar with each other!

When you say she is on her last chance? How is she getting acess to these other dogs? Surely she is kept on a lead & a muzzle if need be?

I think you need the help of a qualified behaviourist to help you manage her. I would certainly not give up on her.

She is always on the leash and is muzzled 90% of the time. To be honest any time she has had a go at other dogs it has been because we haven't been paying attention to her. I know she should be muzzled 100% of the time and we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Latatian wrote: »

Talk to a behaviourist or dog trainer who specializes in dog-aggressive dogs. .

If she's on a short lead and you warn people, and move away from others to give them space, you can avoid most incidents. I am... not sympathetic to people who will allow their dogs to run up to the dogs of a stranger who is politely requesting space while backing away (having had an elderly, frail dog with cancer who got knocked over more than once by the dogs of idiots). If your dog is on-leash and you do not approach other dogs, and you request space from others, you are doing your bit. A muzzle will also help.

Tell us more about the incidents. What happened? Was she on or off leash? With you or let to roam? Was it over food, toys, any specific patterns? How badly were the other dogs injured, was there broken skin, gashes etc or no marks at all?

At the moment it's hard to tell if you have an irredeemable cujo savaging dogs innocently minding their own business, or a terrier who is giving normal corrections to unruly pups.

What do you mean by 'on her last chance'?

I agree with you. The very first incident took place when she was off the lead a number of years ago but has not been off it since when out walking. She wears a muzzle as I mentioned above. I think there was broken skin one time but only slightly and the other times there were no visible marks on the other dogs. I think 'last chance' is fairly self explanatory, it is not my decision as it is my parents dog and I think some better training would be the better option. She is not much fun to walk as you are constantly on guard. She is also very protective of our house especially when people are leaving, she looks like she is chasing them off and running them out the door.

VonVix wrote: »

I agree with Knine. Most a Wheaten Terriers I have met have struggled socially with unfamiliar dogs, from my experience it has been very important to be selective about the dogs they (the ones I have handled) interact with and to have a clear understanding of the body language given.

Out of interest, how did your trainer attempt to help the situation?

I was not there for the training as it is my parents dog so I cannot say for sure.

Ms Doubtfire1

If I were to comment on your parents take on things I would be banned. This is an older girl and they get grumpier.Furthermore, she has lost her best friend, doesn't get walked a lot anymore and has / had very little interaction with other dogs. Catch 22 so to speak. A basic obedience course would be of huge benefit to all. More interaction with her would help to.

Get in touch with a rescue and get her re homed. I would strongly recommend your parents not to get another dog.

jack01986

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

If I were to comment on your parents take on things I would be banned. This is an older girl and they get grumpier.Furthermore, she has lost her best friend, doesn't get walked a lot anymore and has / had very little interaction with other dogs. Catch 22 so to speak. A basic obedience course would be of huge benefit to all. More interaction with her would help to.

Get in touch with a rescue and get her re homed. I would strongly recommend your parents not to get another dog.

Thanks for the input.

Knine

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

If I were to comment on your parents take on things I would be banned. This is an older girl and they get grumpier.Furthermore, she has lost her best friend, doesn't get walked a lot anymore and has / had very little interaction with other dogs. Catch 22 so to speak. A basic obedience course would be of huge benefit to all. More interaction with her would help to.

Get in touch with a rescue and get her re homed. I would strongly recommend your parents not to get another dog.

Agreed. Basically this dog is going to die for being a terrier.

muddypaws

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

If I were to comment on your parents take on things I would be banned. This is an older girl and they get grumpier.Furthermore, she has lost her best friend, doesn't get walked a lot anymore and has / had very little interaction with other dogs. Catch 22 so to speak. A basic obedience course would be of huge benefit to all. More interaction with her would help to.

Get in touch with a rescue and get her re homed. I would strongly recommend your parents not to get another dog.

You must be reading a different thread to me, the OP states that she gets long daily walks. She doesn't get much interaction with other dogs because of incidents, so the owners seem responsible to me

Good luck finding a rescue that will take a dog on, if the owners are honest about the reasons for rehoming. One of my own dogs lives seperately to the rest because of how he is with other dogs, if anything happened to me, I doubt very much that he could be rehomed. I seriously considered having him pts a few years ago, as he was always so edgy, and I didn't think it was good for his mental health. Now he spends most of the day by himself, gets out for a walk with me every day, and he sleeps on my bed each night, not a great life for a dog I don't think, but he seems happier

Graces7

muddypaws wrote: »

You must be reading a different thread to me, the OP states that she gets long daily walks. She doesn't get much interaction with other dogs because of incidents, so the owners seem responsible to me

Apart from the "last chance" ?

DBB

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

If I were to comment on your parents take on things I would be banned. This is an older girl and they get grumpier.Furthermore, she has lost her best friend, doesn't get walked a lot anymore and has / had very little interaction with other dogs. Catch 22 so to speak. A basic obedience course would be of huge benefit to all. More interaction with her would help to.

Get in touch with a rescue and get her re homed. I would strongly recommend your parents not to get another dog.

This is a HORRIBLE way to speak to anyone, and I will not tolerate it any more. Enough, enough, enough.
This is not just directed at you Ms Doubtfire1, but to anyone who thinks it's okay to speak to other posters in this way... How many times do I have to make it clear... attacking other posters makes them angry at you, and more likely to go off and do something drastic.
Think about this. Think about how YOUR words are affecting the person, and consequently, what they do with their animals as a result of the way YOU spoke to them. Think about that.
Don't you think you'd do a lot more good by offering advice? By offering support and help? There's so much knowledge in this forum... is this the best you can do? Berate and abuse people who are LOOKING FOR HELP?

Actually, it's academic what anyone who abuses other posters thinks is the best way to address other people who come looking for help... the bottom line is that nobody, NOBODY, is allowed talk to other posters as you have done here. NOBODY. It's written in the feckin stickies at the top of the page, for crying out loud.
Stop. Abusing. Each. Other.
I am going to give a one week ban to the each and every poster who attempts to address any other poster in this way from this point on. End of.
I have had ENOUGH of it. We're all MEANT to be ADULTS.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

muddypaws

Graces7 wrote: »

muddypaws wrote: »

You must be reading a different thread to me, the OP states that she gets long daily walks. She doesn't get much interaction with other dogs because of incidents, so the owners seem responsible to me

Apart from the "last chance" ?

Actually no. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made. People do seem to forget mental health is just as important as physical. Unfortunately, having an animal humanely put to sleep isn't the worst thing that can happen to them.

And don't cherrypick my replies, you know exactly what I was replying to.

jack01986

Its not an easy decision to make hence why I made the thread. I'll be taking her for a few days anyway and we can take it from there. Will be looking at training options and then try to see if we can find a new home for her down the road.

Help!!!!

jack01986 wrote: »

I agree with you. The very first incident took place when she was off the lead a number of years ago but has not been off it since when out walking. She wears a muzzle as I mentioned above. I think there was broken skin one time but only slightly and the other times there were no visible marks on the other dogs. I think 'last chance' is fairly self explanatory, it is not my decision as it is my parents dog and I think some better training would be the better option. She is not much fun to walk as you are constantly on guard. She is also very protective of our house especially when people are leaving, she looks like she is chasing them off and running them out the door.

This might be a huge part of the problem, if your mood changes when you are leaving the house to take her for a walk she will pick up on this. You need to be very confident, keep her on a short leash. When you see her getting into an attack state you need to take her mind off it. When coming to another dog tell her to sit or keep her on the outside then reward her immediately after if she does good

Ashbx

Good advice from Help above. My dog used to be very leash reactive. She's 6 now and has finally learned to be 100% calm around dogs so it did take me a long time and I never had an incident that made her aggressive in the first place....just the way she was. I used to hate bringing her out because I used to get stressed out being "on guard" all the time. And as Help said above, I was only adding to my dogs anxiety so try to remain as calm as you can.

The only way I was able to control her is if you see a dog coming, to stand to the side make her sit and let her watch the dog go past. And treat for good behaviour. Over the days/weeks/months (however long you think), start getting closer and closer to it. For me, it did take a long time but now I can walk past a dog with no hassle at all. Consistency and patience is key here!

Good luck!

aonb

jack01986 wrote: »

Its not an easy decision to make hence why I made the thread. I'll be taking her for a few days anyway and we can take it from there. Will be looking at training options and then try to see if we can find a new home for her down the road.

Have your parents thrown in the towel with her OP? This might be part of the problem - i.e they feel they have done all they can with her or all they are willing to do with her? Are they dog lovers as such? Or have they just been defeated by her behaviour? If they have got to the stage where they just feel she is beyond their help and care, then this make it more difficult for them, and the dog. Are you in a position to home her? The wheatens are such lovely dogs, but like all terriers, if not properly socialized can be aggressive. Is she nervous which displays as aggression? When you had the other dog, was she also aggressive to other dogs then?

What is the situation with her at home?
Is she fine with your parents and people coming into the house? She has a few friends dogs she is fine with, you said, are they big dogs? Is she aggressive only towards smaller dogs? Is it just a case of her only being aggressive to dogs when out walking? If she is on leash and muzzled when out walking is this acceptable for your parents? Or is she too strong/aggressive for them to walk her?

Has she been checked by a vet for general health? Any health issues?

If you tell us area you live in, someone on here will have recommendations for a qualified behaviourist which might be worth consideration. Would your parents be on for 'training' for themselves too, as well as the dog?

Its a rotten situation to be in - one of my own dogs can be hopeless towards other dogs out walking, but in his case its fear/nervous/anxiety, and he would never actually fight/attack another dog - hes ok when he finds the other dog isnt going to attack him - but its horrible for oncoming owners/dogs. Luckily we live in a very rural area so dont meet other dogs/owners very often.

Cows Go µ

Ashbx wrote: »

Good advice from Help above. My dog used to be very leash reactive. She's 6 now and has finally learned to be 100% calm around dogs so it did take me a long time and I never had an incident that made her aggressive in the first place....just the way she was. I used to hate bringing her out because I used to get stressed out being "on guard" all the time. And as Help said above, I was only adding to my dogs anxiety so try to remain as calm as you can.

The only way I was able to control her is if you see a dog coming, to stand to the side make her sit and let her watch the dog go past. And treat for good behaviour. Over the days/weeks/months (however long you think), start getting closer and closer to it. For me, it did take a long time but now I can walk past a dog with no hassle at all. Consistency and patience is key here!

Good luck!

This sort of thing will help a lot. My girl was very nervous, not aggressive but nervous so she barked at every dog to get them to stay away. I couldn't do sit because I wanted to do agility and we can't do sit then when she's meant to be running around so I had a toy and we did playtime every time we saw a dog. You might have to start slightly further away if meeting a dog head on is too much. Go to the park find a corner and try to make the dog do tricks while dogs are nearby then get closer and closer but only when he's able to stay focused on you. When they are meeting head on it can be very intimidating because they stare at each other. I did playtime every day for a summer and then went to a seminar and my girl was great even surrounded by dogs, people couldn't believe it was the same dog. Though she got injured so reverted and we are pretty much starting all over again.

You need to make seeing other dogs a good thing and getting a treat is always a good thing. My dogs also think doing tricks is more fun than just getting a treat but shelties are like that

jack01986

aonb wrote: »

Have your parents thrown in the towel with her OP? This might be part of the problem - i.e they feel they have done all they can with her or all they are willing to do with her? Are they dog lovers as such? Or have they just been defeated by her behaviour? If they have got to the stage where they just feel she is beyond their help and care, then this make it more difficult for them, and the dog. Are you in a position to home her? The wheatens are such lovely dogs, but like all terriers, if not properly socialized can be aggressive. Is she nervous which displays as aggression? When you had the other dog, was she also aggressive to other dogs then?

What is the situation with her at home?
Is she fine with your parents and people coming into the house? She has a few friends dogs she is fine with, you said, are they big dogs? Is she aggressive only towards smaller dogs? Is it just a case of her only being aggressive to dogs when out walking? If she is on leash and muzzled when out walking is this acceptable for your parents? Or is she too strong/aggressive for them to walk her?

Has she been checked by a vet for general health? Any health issues?

If you tell us area you live in, someone on here will have recommendations for a qualified behaviourist which might be worth consideration. Would your parents be on for 'training' for themselves too, as well as the dog?

Its a rotten situation to be in - one of my own dogs can be hopeless towards other dogs out walking, but in his case its fear/nervous/anxiety, and he would never actually fight/attack another dog - hes ok when he finds the other dog isnt going to attack him - but its horrible for oncoming owners/dogs. Luckily we live in a very rural area so dont meet other dogs/owners very often.

I think that they might feel she is gone beyond their help and care. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to take her as there are no pets allowed in our apartment. She is quite skittish and tends to jump at the slightest sound so I guess this is nervousness. She was never aggressive when we had the other dog it only seemed to come along after she had died.

She is always rushing to the door when people are coming and going from the house. She has also nipped someones leg when they were leaving the house. The only dog she has played with recently was a golden retriever. I've only ever seen her show aggression towards smaller dogs when out walking. They have been walking her while she has a muzzle on and have no issues with that. The latest incident took place because her muzzle was broken. They can easily handle her while on the lead and its not a big deal for them.

They were at the vet recently and everything seemed fine. My dad was speaking with the vet today and he thought it might be best to put her to sleep as the aggression might get worse.

My parents fear is that something really serious could happen with a person or a small child and nobody wants that on their conscience.

I'm Dublin based so open to suggestions.

tk123

If she's sound sensitive like that I'd be getting a vet to do a thorough check of her back and her back legs - sound sensitive dogs can often carry tension or have pain in their hind quarters. I know with my guy if he's sore he can get very skittish when he's out and about and sounds that doesn't usually bother him will frighten him. I'd also get a second opinion to be sure if you have one vet going down the pts route. I was in the vets with my guy yesterday and there was a dog behind the door going ballistic because he was terrified and in pain but the vets were fantastic and knew why he was acting like that no were handling it well. My own dog wouldn't let us lift him out of the car when we got home because he's in pain atm...

aonb

jack01986 wrote: »

I think that they might feel she is gone beyond their help and care. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to take her as there are no pets allowed in our apartment. She is quite skittish and tends to jump at the slightest sound so I guess this is nervousness. She was never aggressive when we had the other dog it only seemed to come along after she had died.

She is always rushing to the door when people are coming and going from the house. She has also nipped someones leg when they were leaving the house. The only dog she has played with recently was a golden retriever. I've only ever seen her show aggression towards smaller dogs when out walking. They have been walking her while she has a muzzle on and have no issues with that. The latest incident took place because her muzzle was broken. They can easily handle her while on the lead and its not a big deal for them.

They were at the vet recently and everything seemed fine. My dad was speaking with the vet today and he thought it might be best to put her to sleep as the aggression might get worse.

My parents fear is that something really serious could happen with a person or a small child and nobody wants that on their conscience.

I'm Dublin based so open to suggestions.

I feel sorry for you looking on, but if your parents now have a negative feeling about the dog, its a catch22 situation.... unless they have a bond with the dog, and are prepared to invest heavily in retraining etc., its a no-win situation often. Having said that, the dog can just be that kind of personality and at 6 (?) its harder to change/retrain.

Really its your parents fault that she has had issues when out walking if she was brought out without being 100% in their control (broken muzzle etc) - thats not a criticism. Its probably also most owners fault, that bad behaviour in a dog isnt nipped in the bud from day one rather than allowing it to become part of the routine/personality. Not much use to you I know.

Wheatens were bred as herding/working/farm dogs. Her instincts are showing when she is herding people in/out of the house! If she was fine when there was another dog, she is probably feeling like she has to do all the work herself - protecting the house/humans etc.

If your parents arent willing/able to spend serious time with the dog and with a behaviourist its hard to know how to go forward. Wheatens are a pretty dog, making them more attractive to possible rehoming, but her skittishness/nervousness/aggression are a huge block. Can you in good faith rehome a dog with these problems, knowing she will get dumped back to a pound/rescue/worse?

What are your options? Do your parents LOVE the dog? Are they the types that would try to refocus her aggression when out walking with treats/distractions etc?

If they want to keep her, and they cannot correct her behaviour, they can put her in another room when visitors arrive - or get her crate trained. They can invest in a couple of good quality muzzles and never take her out without one. Find walks that are quieter/less likely to meet other dogs. Remove the situations which cause the aggression/issues.

I hope they can work something out.

crustybla

Help!!!! wrote: »

This might be a huge part of the problem, if your mood changes when you are leaving the house to take her for a walk she will pick up on this. You need to be very confident, keep her on a short leash. When you see her getting into an attack state you need to take her mind off it. When coming to another dog tell her to sit or keep her on the outside then reward her immediately after if she does good

Good point. I've noticed when I have my earphones in, chilling to music on a walk and just striding along he takes far less notice of other passing dogs. Defo something in them picking up on our moods.