Daddy Knows Best

LegacyUser

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to get some perspective on an argument I am currently having with my husband.

Basically we are currently planning on doing an extension to our house and have received three reasonable quotes for the work. However my father-in-law is a retired builder and has pitched in that he can do the work cheaper for us.

My husband wants to accept his dads offer even though I am dead set against it... I have two reasons for my hesitation.. Firstly my father in law is 75 and I think he should enjoy some time with his wife. Secondly, if my father in law does the work for us, it will take him at least a year! Our three firms have said it would take about two months. His father has done work for us in the past which came to about 90% of the cost of a firm and took about five times as long (our garden was a building site and unusable for six months).

I dont want to live on a building site for a year! my husband grew up in that situation and thinks its perfectly normal to have no floors or a stair case for months at a time.

Am I being silly? Or is all the hassle worth a few grand?

Thanks

nikkibikki

We had my uncle do our extension. He's in his 60's. My husband nearly strangled him and if he wasn't my uncle he would have sacked him. I wouldn't advise mixing family and building. Use a professional builder. You can easily go back to a builder with a snag list. You can ask your father in law with help in compiling the snag list, that can be his job.

I wouldn't have a 75yr old family member do this kind of manual work. If he injured himself, there'd be no insurance I'm guessing if he's not set up as self employed.

bmwguy

I did this with my father before, took him forever to do it. Also got bathrooms tiled as a nixer by a guy I worked with, he did a great job on the 2 of them but he was here for weeks, every evening. Never, ever again.

For 3rd bathroom I got a full time tiler, went to work, came home he was wrapped up for the day had tiles all in place. 2nd day, came home he had grout finished I paid him, job done.

Saved about 250 quid on first guy, even though his workmanship was as good having him there every evening was a nightmare

leggo

The phrase "pay cheap, pay twice" is your friend here OP. You're not wrong at all.

tara73

I understand your point completely. It's a nightmare if building work is dragged out in the own place.
I guess you are in a dilemma now you'll hurt your father in law when telling him you want to do it with a firm?
But I think your father i. l. should understand you. you probably work full time, you want to be able to relax in the evenings in your home.
what about kids, do you have kids? it's even worse to live with kids on a building site.
Have another calm but clear chat with your husband, make him to understand your points. you need him on your side to let your father in law nicely know you won't be doing it with him. If he's a nice, grown-up person, he should understand too.

Ursus Horribilis

When your husband was growing up in a house that was like a building site at times, he was young and knew no better. He might not appreciate it these days.

Like everyone else so far on this thread, I think you're right and that it's a terrible idea. The toll it'll take on you, your family (if you have one) and on your relationship isn't something to be sniffed at. 2 months is long enough to be putting up with this. 12+ months is beyond the pale in my book.

freshpopcorn

I've heard of some great stories and some bad stories about people working with family members.(Majority good to be honest)
If you do use another builder just be prepared to have it thrown back in your face if anything goes wrong.
I do understand your concerns about his age but I'm from a farming background and people stay going until they can't go any longer and that's what makes them happy. I know a builder who'd be a good age now and could easily retired years ago and he's after building his daughters house last year. Anyway my point is certain people aren't into being told to enjoy their golden years and put their feet up!
Your farther in law means well so try and let him down in a nice way. Could ye find something small for him to do?
If I knew I'd save a lot of money living on a building site wouldn't bother me a but but I don't think ye're saving enough in this case to allow this.
My main advice is make sure the building firm ye use is good and has good reviews. Regarding finishes and time!

fungun

I wouldnt let his father do it in a million years. Its a big job and a job that is really important to you. It sounds like you already disagree with your husband in terms of what the expectations for what the project plan and execution should ideally look like. You will have no leverage in terms of being able to give out about timelines or decisions if he takes it on and it will almost certainly lead to you getting pissed off with him. It also will bring a third person into the building decisions when it really should be just you and your husband.

i would position this in a way that you care too much for the personal relationship to enter into business dealings with him; tell him you have heard some horror stories and never want to risk that with him. And then you can ask him to help out in terms of snag lists etc. where it would actually be useful. But for me this would be a big no no.

Ursus Horribilis

fungun wrote: »

i would position this in a way that you care too much for the personal relationship to enter into business dealings with him; tell him you have heard some horror stories and never want to risk that with him. And then you can ask him to help out in terms of snag lists etc. where it would actually be useful. But for me this would be a big no no.

I also think the significant difference in timelines is worth bringing up. With these other builders, you're looking at having the place back to yourselves within a relatively short space of time. With your father-in-law at the wheel, it could easily run months over schedule.

You're better off not mentioning that he should be spending more time with his wife though. I don't think that, or his age, will go down well.

As it happens, I was only chatting about something like this to a friend the other week. His father in law is a retired carpenter and still good at what he does. These days, he and his wife prefer to get in someone else to do their work for them because it makes life simpler for them. The way he sees it, it might cost more money but you can't buy the peace of mind.

amtc

My dad is 79 and has a planning background. Against better judgement my mam recommended him to her brother. It took forever and it ended up with the door opening up the wrong way so you have to open it out and then go out and squeeze past it. He simply designed it wrong.

I think the situation here is maybe to point out the risks for little children. Plus would he be able to get insurance? You'll also need ber

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone for your responses. At least now I don't feel like im being too silly.

To be honest, it's not really an issue of working with family. We are all very close and often do some simple DIY jobs today (like paint the house or gardening).

I think my main problem is all the extra stress of arguing daily about suppliers/time lines and design changes.

Also what happens if my father in law just decides he's not bothered for a week or two (which has happened before).. he wouldn't take a cent off us for his time so i cannot ask him to hurry up?

At the moment my husband is still dead set on using his dad. We cannot really find common ground at the moment.

Hooked

Just stumbled across this thread lying awake on this Paddys day... I feel your pain. My wife's dad is an exceptional builder, carpenter, plasterer and painter. He's also 66!

We've discussed similar views (only in reverse) with possibly building or buying a fixer upper.

While I'd love his help (financially and physically), there is a line. And defining that line, while trying to keep so many opinions and emotions in check isn't easy. Would I let him build a wall on a Saturday? Yes. Would I let him build an extension like yours, in the evenings and weekends, taking 6 times as long, to save a few grand. Christ no!

Your husband needs to take a step back from the conversation. Almost watch it through neutral eyes. As if ye were looking at another couple in your situation. And try to forget that the builder is his father for a moment...

Pros.
1. You will save a few grand...
2. ........... See above.

Cons
1. This builder is 75 (red flag) years old
2. He's taking 6 times longer
3. The house will be in a heap
4. You, his wife, will be stressed
5. Your relationship will be strained
6. What if he had an accident, or worse! I hate to say it - but it's a very real possibility.

You also need to realise that your husband has an emotional connection to his dad, and him completing the job would bring them both satisfaction. Your husband would always be able to say.., my dad built that. He saved us X money. But at what real cost?

I'm a very pro-active and level headed guy. When my wife and I disagree on something, we do the above. We put all of our thoughts down, mix in friends/family advice, get advice here on boards, etc... and see which way the scales tip.

Anytime I have compromised... And I recently was dead set on keeping my house, renting it, while we both bought our own (2nd) home together... It was only through advice, discussion, the 'what if's' (bad tenants, one of us lost out job) that I was able to take off the blinkers and see that selling was the less risky, less stressful, and above all - best decision for us as a coupe. Sure, the rent would cover the mortgage and if we got the right tenant, we'd have a nice nest egg in 20 years. But... What if...



Maybe you could meet your husband and his dad in the middle? Let the builders do the heavy lifting, the foundations, block work and roofing?

His dad does the rest? 12 months becomes 4-6 months. Ye save on the first/second fix phase?

Life is short. The stress is never worth it.

Especially not for a 75 year old!

LegacyUser

Your father in law has offered to do this and your husband thinks this is a great idea as he will save some money.

Tell your husband to stop being so tight when it comes to do this building work. I persume you have kids and you need some more space.

The reality is that your father in law is 75 years old. He is not able to do this type of manual work. He will go off for days. You will be left living on a building site for months.
Along with this at 75 years of age he is not insured if anything happens to him.

I would tell your husband that you want this work done as possible and if he gets his father to do this your going to move out and rent another house in the local area which will cost him x amount over the next 12 months.
I would also remind him that his father won't be insured for this work so if he has an accident your not willing to lose your house to pay a claim for him.

Remind him of what it was like before when his father worked for you and that you are not going through that again.

If you have children I would tell him you know that the longer the building work is going on the higher chance one of the kids will have an accident. I have some young nephews and you could not keep them away from workmen, tools or paint if anyone was doing a job in their home.

I would ring your mother in law and tell her what is going on. Tell her you don't want x doing this job. My feeling is that she does not know what her husband is planning. Let her tell him he is not doing this job either. Prehaps she could want a holiday or to have a few days out over the next few months - him working won't allow this.

freshpopcorn

My best advice to you is whatever ye do make sure ye both agree 100% on the builder ye go with so if anything did go wrong ye'd be blaming one another.

Bandana boy

The comment about him enjoying time with his wife is awful and sends up a red flag for me , certainly do not say that to the man , how would you feel if he said you should worry about keeping the house clean and raring the children and leave the building decisions to your Husband .


The "hassle" might not be worth a few grand to you but there is far more at play.
This could be much desired income to your partners family , he might struggle to bring in money at this age and a client who is more understanding on delays makes taking one last job more feasible. The saving may not just be the couple of grand you are saving but the fact that money stays in the family.

Money may not be an issue but a project like this could reinvigorate a man struggling to come to terms with retirement .

Your father in law might just be trying to be helpful and throwing this back at him may cause offense within your partners family and really you should follow your partners lead in dealing with them .


Your partner most certainly owes his parents , whether they supported you in the deposit for your first house or just reared a good man you definitely owe them some respect. A couple of weeks longer getting your extension while supporting your extended family seems a small price to pay .

Ursus Horribilis

lady 2029 wrote: »

Y

I would ring your mother in law and tell her what is going on. Tell her you don't want x doing this job. My feeling is that she does not know what her husband is planning. Let her tell him he is not doing this job either. Perhaps she could want a holiday or to have a few days out over the next few months - him working won't allow this.

:eek::eek: I'm sorry but I think this is just about the worst thing the OP could do. Telling tales and interfering in other people's marriages is no way to resolve issues. It's also patronising and could stir up no end of trouble.

The OP has been put in an awkward position here and it needs to be dealt with tactfully. Bandana Boy has raised some interesting points. Maybe he could do with the extra money or is bored out of his tree. For all we know, his wife might want him out from under her feet. Even if her husband doesn't want his dad to do the job, it's very hard to turn around to him and say no.

Xcom2

Ask for an insurance cert so you are not liable for any accidents and also covered for any defects in the work!