Reading Cats

I don't know much about cats. I think I know a lot about dogs but cats are a whole other world.

So I got a second cat. We had thought about it a last year and I started a thread here about introducing two cats and got lots of great advice but in the end decided against cat no.2 because cat.no1 gets on so great with the dogs we didn't think it was necessary.

However, a few little things have changed and we aren't at home quite as much and since the dogs come away with me, the cat's been spending more time alone. So we got cat no.2 a few weeks ago.

I followed most of the intro. advice I was given here. For example, new cat got his own room so they got used to each other in the house without meeting. (There was lots of meowing back and forth from each side of the door and sniffing underneath) Eventually progressed to meeting but not able to get at each other properly. (There was gentle nose sniffs at this point) and so on.

The problem is now they are spending chunks of the day 'hanging out' (supervised) and I'm finding it really hard to know what's play and what's not. I feel so dumb like when dogs are playing and someone thinks they're fighting and I'm rolling my eyes at the eejit.. well now I'm that eejit.

Can anyone tell me what normal cat play looks like. How rough is too rough? What signs to look out for, positive and negative. Is there anyway to help them learn appropriate play?

Thanks in advance!

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know much about cats. I think I know a lot about dogs but cats are a whole other world.

So I got a second cat. We had thought about it a last year and I started a thread here about introducing two cats and got lots of great advice but in the end decided against cat no.2 because cat.no1 gets on so great with the dogs we didn't think it was necessary.

However, a few little things have changed and we aren't at home quite as much and since the dogs come away with me, the cat's been spending more time alone. So we got cat no.2 a few weeks ago.

I followed most of the intro. advice I was given here. For example, new cat got his own room so they got used to each other in the house without meeting. (There was lots of meowing back and forth from each side of the door and sniffing underneath) Eventually progressed to meeting but not able to get at each other properly. (There was gentle nose sniffs at this point) and so on.

The problem is now they are spending chunks of the day 'hanging out' (supervised) and I'm finding it really hard to know what's play and what's not. I feel so dumb like when dogs are playing and someone thinks they're fighting and I'm rolling my eyes at the eejit.. well now I'm that eejit.

Can anyone tell me what normal cat play looks like. How rough is too rough? What signs to look out for, positive and negative. Is there anyway to help them learn appropriate play?

Thanks in advance!

How old are they and gender status?

Are they growling and hissing at each other or just wrestling?

And it really is early days

One will be boss cat and my boss cat will still two years on hiss and spit at the newest cat. Blood has never been shed....

If in doubt, keep separate is safe.

Lady Haywire

We introduced Kovu and Squeak a few days after Squeak had kittens. Both were outdoor cats so we couldn't really do anything to keep them apart :eek:

There were a few clouts and hissing/yowling at the start but settled in surprisingly well together- I'd often find two cats and the two kittens all stuffed into the one box! But the progression went from bottlebrush tails, hissing and snarling to ears back and yowling, then just acceptance of each other.
They do still 'argue' but it's all play, ears back and chasing each other, the chasee yowling and tail swishing etc when backed into a corner. But I'd only step in if fur is actually pulled out or if one cat attacks the other for no reason.
(Last night I had to pry Squeak off my lap as Kovu wanted to come in the window. Squeak attacked him as soon as he came in because he was the reason I had to get up, thus her losing her seat, she got a stern warning and he got treats while she sulked and got none.)

If yours are spending lots of time together with no attacks on each other, I'd say they're pretty well adjusted already and just finding boundaries with each other. There's an outdoor cat here the past 6 months and literally if either of mine see him it's hissing all round, they'll never accept him in so I have to find a new home for him.

Lady Haywire

Lady Haywire wrote: »

There were a few clouts and hissing/yowling at the start but settled in surprisingly well together- I'd often find two cats and the two kittens all stuffed into the one box! But the progression went from bottlebrush tails, hissing and snarling to ears back and yowling, then just acceptance of each other.
They do still 'argue' but it's all play, ears back and chasing each other, the chasee yowling and tail swishing etc when backed into a corner. But I'd only step in if fur is actually pulled out or if one cat attacks the other for no reason

Axel (cat no.1) is 15 months. Oscar (cat no.2) is supposedly 10 months. Both male. The first and second time axel saw Oscar in the flesh he hissed at him and growled and then just stared. (He's only seen one other cat before). Oscar was unmoved by axel and barely seemed to register him.

Since they've been free to interact .. well that started with Oscar exploring and axel following him everywhere at a safe distance with a face that looked surprised and suspicious. If Oscar went behind something he'd have to race after him to see what he was up to.

Oscar seemed to think this was a game and maybe initiated 'play' sooner than axel was ready for. So there was chasing and swiping and a couple of pounces from oscars end. Axel didn't get angry just kept recoiling and running away.
But the last two days they've been outright wrestling and it seems very rough. Lots of mouthing each others throats (i say mouthing because i cant see if they're actually sinking any teeth in), scrabbling at each other with their hind legs, pouncing on each other...Tails are swishing but ears are forward and no hair standing up. There's probably been four hisses in the last few days and one or two yelps/screams here and there but mainly they do all this in silence. And i don't know which hisses or yelps. No blood shed (that I've seen) and no hair torn out. They keep sneaking up on each other and catching each other off guard (usually Oscar is the instigator) and really make the other jump in fright so I'd imagine theyre still feeling nervy.

I don't know when to intervene because i don't know when it's too much. Today when someone yelped I involuntarily shouted HEY and they both ran away in different directions.

I really want them to be friends (although I know I have no real control over that) and we won't leave them alone together until they are either friends or happy to ignore each other.

It's tiresome following them around to keep an eye on things.

Edited to add: they are both neutered.

aonb

Im like you, dog-savvy, but cat-thick - will be watching this thread with great interest! Keep us posted on progress!

Today is the anniversary of me getting cat 2 myself. He was about to turn 7 and he was cool with all other animals. My special baby Amelia was less than 2 years old, and she was always a lone pet and loved it that way. Within a week she started at accept that Corey was allowed to come into the house and allowed to eat here. At least he never tried to used her stuff, like her scratcher or her toys. The fighting was seldom because she stayed away from him mostly and he's too chill to fight anyone. In the last two months (10 months of cat 2) they started fighting. Play fighting than turned rough like you describe. I only broke it up when I thought Amelia might get hurt, because she is very little and swings above her weight. I do like you and just shout at them to break it up.

If there is no locking together, fur flying and your house getting wrecked, they are sorting out their new social living between themselves. Cats are much more independent than dogs and don't think like them (I know you know this) but because of this our intervention is less welcome and less effective. Our intervention can actually make things worse in some situations! Axel is probably following closely to make sure Oscar doesn't get into his favourite places or take his favourite toys. Amelia deffo did this with Corey. It helped a lot to give Corey a bed of his own and blankets of his own in a spot where Amelia never slept. He appreciated it and it stopped her stressing that Corey was going to take her fave places.

It sounds like your cats are at least trying to get to know each other! That's great. It took months before my two interacted properly. They now love each other. Well, as much as they ever will! Can you separate them for the next few weeks while you're not home? I did this too. Corey was obviously inside for the first eight weeks and Amelia was out when I was out. She always sleeps in my bedroom so night wasn't a problem. After about four months I could leave them alone together all the time. Sounds to me like your two will get to that stage quickly too - that sort of fighting and hissing is totally normal.

Dandelion6

I have two resident cats and, currently, two fosters. The fosters are brother and sister and have grown up together.

Between them and my resident cats, there was (initially) a lot of hissing and growling.

What you describe above is how they behave towards each other.

It sounds to me like yours are doing fine.

Graces7

Dandelion6 wrote: »

I have two resident cats and, currently, two fosters. The fosters are brother and sister and have grown up together.

Between them and my resident cats, there was (initially) a lot of hissing and growling.

What you describe above is how they behave towards each other.

It sounds to me like yours are doing fine.

Agree.. as long as it is all noise and no blood :rolleyes:

My girl loves to knead her brothers belly and he hates it and growls and hisses in rhythm with her kneading. Never goes more than that

Thanks for all the replies. When budgese said it's normal and dandelion said they sound like they're doing fine, I swear I felt my shoulders relax! I'm just going to leave them at it unless fur flies or some such and let them find their way. I just needed some reassurance I think.

I'll be keeping them in separate parts of the house when we're not home for another while anyway just to be safe.

Now if the new cat would just relax around the dogs I'd be flying. He's obviously never seen such foul beasts before and he hates them! They desperately want to make friends with him but if they get anywhere near him he scrabs them. We'll get there though. Axel will show him how to control the mutts!

mymo

4 cats here aged 2-16, and two dogs 7&8yrs.
All added at different times, all have different relationships.
We still have the odd yowl and slap fights between the two oldest, dogs know when to step back too.
It just takes time, but what you described sounds normal.

Graces7

Op; a breakthrough here. For the first time ever, caught my three cats curled up together. A wonderful sight, Patience and time are the key; have had the third one two years....

mozzy

Would you seek advise from a cat behaviourist or fab cats?

mozzy

mozzy wrote: »

Would you seek advise from a cat behaviourist or fab cats?

I would if things turned very nasty but thankfully I don't think it's that serious. More just my own inability to read how they are feeling about each other. They seem to be getting happier with each other over the last couple days anyways so fingers crossed!

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

I would if things turned very nasty but thankfully I don't think it's that serious. More just my own inability to read how they are feeling about each other. They seem to be getting happier with each other over the last couple days anyways so fingers crossed!

Wise words. My girl still wops Jacob when he gets too bold and hisses at him but there is no malice. Just reaffirming her bosscat position He takes it in good heart.. knows his place and later they will all be curled up together ..

They're grooming each other! Right now! In front of my very eyes!!! Yay!!!!!! It's all gonna be ok.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

They're grooming each other! Right now! In front of my very eyes!!! Yay!!!!!! It's all gonna be ok.

Wonderful news! Told you! Just time is all.

Please be ready for what will seem like setbacks. My Jacob just got hissed at for being a little too bumptious. It happens, like adults telling kids off for "being a bold boy"!

Feeding something smelly eg tuna will help as they will lick each other's faces