Piston on a semiautomatic.

minktrapper

Is there any need to clean the inside of the piston on a semiautomatic. And if yes how do you do it.

cookimonster

I shoot a Baikal, semi - gas operated and for the life of me I can't picture a piston in the assembly. It's too late to dig it out of the safe, tomorrow I get it out. But I'm sure it's magazine cap, fore end grip, barrel c/w gas port / block, slide / actuating bars, spring, bolt and butt assembly housing etc. No piston in mine, but I disassemble as above and clean the lot.

You've got me remembering things like, GPMG, FN:) and the plastic AUG....uuck!:(

2011

minktrapper wrote: »

Is there any need to clean the inside of the piston on a semiautomatic. And if yes how do you do it.

For the piston on my Beretta AL391 I use Hoppe’s No. 9 Bore Cleaner and a bronze brush.

cookimonster

Ahh.....confusion over what I perceive a 'piston' to be. In the Baikal it's known as a 'Piston Action Bar Sleeve' and is in fact a round open ended tube that rides over the magazine. I use gun oil, bronze brush and pot scrubbers. I clean the gas ports with cotton buds used for your ears.

Vegeta

I never clean mine.

cookimonster

If there's carbon on it then I'll clean it.....

Vegeta

cookimonster wrote: »

If there's carbon on it then I'll clean it.....

Not being smart or facetious but any particular reason? Has it ever failed to cycle due to carbon build up? I don't believe the carbon can damage the piston. I know gun cleaning can be more of a religion than a science at times but would be interested to see if people have experienced adverse effects on this one.

minktrapper

It has never failed to cycle bar 24 gr low noise cartridges. I would like to know the best cleaning regime just so as I can keep it in proper order.

Grizzly 45

Depends on what model shotgun you have.Each has a different cleaning regime.Best have a look online for the owners manual and download or just google your particular gun for cleaning tips and procedure?

BTW 24 gram loads are really pushing some semi actions to function if they are low noise.

cookimonster

With bolt actions and blow back .22 semis I'd be less, very less inclined to be worried about carbon build up. But with gas operated shot guns in my opinion that's a different matter. There's a lot of propellant and gas going into the system. Now I won't clean it until I've a good few hundred down the tube, being out in heavy rain / on the marsh or if she begins not to cycle. The only cycling issues I've had was during prolonged periods (high volume of cartridges over a short period of time) and heavy use on pigeons using 28gr 7.5 loads.

Carbon build up over a period of time will foul and near 'weld' essential parts inplace causeing poor functioning and eventually stoppages. If lads using gas guns are not cleaning them and not experiencing issues the fair play. But don't mistake these endurance tests done with certain brands firing thousands and thousands of cartridges with actual real life use. Carbon fouling becomes more of an issue when the gun cools and the carbon hardens.
Catastrophic failure of guns being fired continuously is usually from over heating.

Vegeta

Thanks for the response cookiemonster, the reason I don't clean mine (Beretta) is that the instruction manual says it is self cleaning. I have had 1 or 2 jams in it but it was when I was shooting a few hundred carts at a time at clays. A bit of lube (using frog lube) into the bolt area and it was right as rain again.

cavan shooter

I've a beretta 391 urika and to be honest the bit attached to the barrel I've never cleaned the other thingy yoke gets a rub with a cloth when I clean the Gun. But do I actually clean it as in I better clean the piston......nope.

sharkfox

I'd fully clean all my guns after each use, even if I only fire a few shots. That way I know alls good the next time I grab it. It's probably a bit over kill but it's just routine now. Just out of curiosity why would lads only clean some of the gun and not the rest?

cookimonster

Self cleaning, that's cool, the old Russian railway sleeper can take a licken..........but self clean it can't. Maybe the combination of vodka and the Zen like feeling one gets from stripping cleaning and assembling firearms is what keeps the Ruskis sane on long cold winter nights..........but then again I used to have a self cleaning oven, notice I say 'used to have':D

Grizzly 45

Vegeta wrote: »

Thanks for the response cookiemonster, the reason I don't clean mine (Beretta) is that the instruction manual says it is self cleaning. .

Think there was a famous American military rifle that had that same reputation of being self cleaning in the late 1960s?:D
Nothing in firearms is ever self cleaning.It might be the firearm is built around a certain type of cartridge brand and load that has a less fouling propensity[As was the case in the AR15 /M16 in "Nam".Its problems started when the govt ammo supplier changed the powder mix,which created more carbon build up.Along with the zero cleaning idea and jungle conditions,no wonder it became known as a "jam a matic."].Or the gun is built with huge tolerances to cruddy ammo that it will keep on working no matter what.[IE an AK or the like]
FWIW after a season or a hard day of clays,it should be no bother to field strip and wipe down any moving parts and clean them as per manual.You can even get oils nowadays that penetrate the metal and prevent carbon build up once the cation starts warming up.

juice1304

I would advise cleaning everything semi regularly no matter what, carbon attracts moisture which will then equals rust. 
Ive seen alot of guns that looked alright on the outside and were an absolute mess on when taken apart.

Vegeta

Self cleaning is probably a poor turn of phrase. The part itself is covered in carbon but if enough carbon did build up in the mechanism, this would increase pressure on subsequent shots and these shots would move any excess out of the way. There are also exhaust ports if a very powerful load is used or complete blockage occurs. I actually wonder if more carbon that built up would the seal between the ring and piston become tighter and actually work better.

If my gun gets wet or dirty I'll clean it. I regularly clean and lube all the rest of the gun but I do not sweat the gas piston. I keep it dry (no lubricant) but don't scrub it.

cookimonster

The gas block / piston / plug assembly thingy are generally not a complete sealed unit and allow venting of gases at various spots.
Based on my limited experience with military firearms systems that are gas operated, if you begin to experience stoppages that are not associated with other simple IA's (Immediate Actons) - misfire, empty gun, jams etc. then one course of action is to adjust the gas plug to a more 'open' setting to allow enough gases into the system to operate the gun. In this case the IA would indicate that fouling will not be cleared by excessive pressure do to the narrowing of the passage ways. This is the same IA AFAIK for 7.62FN, 7.62FN GPMG and 5.56 Styer AUG.
Granted they are all mil spec firearms (trying not to use the 'W' word) and not a shotgun. But for the life of me I can't see how a mechanism that comes into contact with such gases does not suffrage from continual build up. Considering the crud that lines you barrels after a days shooting. I have a chrome lined barrel in one gun and standard in another and the difference in the surface in each after a standard cleaning is massive, think about the build up of carbon on all of the machined / cast contours of the gas assembly.

Anyhow as I said if it's working for you then happy days. I've time on my hands at the moment refinishing a older piece so I'm killing time between jobs 'musing'...

Vegeta

Here's my piston after hundreds of cartridges (maybe 400) and zero attention. Rest of the gun would have been cleaned 4-5 times in that period. Enough carbon to make my hands dirty but doesn't look excessive and it's functioning better than ever.
First few times I took it clay shooting it was not reliable. Lots of lube in the bolt area and more shooting has helped that though and it's now running great.

cookimonster

Personally I'd clean it, maybe it's my ever increasing OCD or I'm still suffering post dramatic stress syndrome from the exposure to the DF Training Depots ........

The Baikal had a break in procedure requiring the firing of heavy field loads before using anything light. To be honest I sat in frount of the TV and worked the action a couple of dozen times or more. I shot half a box of No 6 32g and then went on to shoot a round of sporting clays no bother with the trap cartridges. Like I said if I leave it too long between some loving care she'll begin to fail to eject ever now and then.

Vegeta

What I think I might do is clean it and do a round or two of high volume shooting, clays or pigeons, but check the gun at regular intervals to see how quickly it gets back to the same level of carbon deposit. The gun is functioning perfectly now so trying to track any increase/decrease in reliability would be fruitless.

If it only stays clean for a couple of shots then it's a complete waste of time.

cookimonster

Cool, worth a try, but it should blacken within a few shots. If the carbon deposit that's on it now rubs off with a lick of a oily rag then that's ok, but look out for shiny metallic like build up on flat surfaces or in crevices etc. This is carbon building up and hardening under heat and pressure. It has that same apperance that you see with shiney pieces of coal except it's stealy grey.
It would build up and harden in / on gas plug heads and would require some chipping / scrapping and scrubbing using (not recommended even for mil spec let alone sporting) everything from penknives, flat pebbles and wire wool. Contary to what some would think you don't put a lot of rounds down a military firearm during range or training days in between cleaning. The more you fire the more you clean;)