Contact with breeder

ITgirl73

How much contact should you have with breeder before you buy a puppy?
When is the earliest you can see puppies eg is it always after the 8 week period?
. When should a breeder confirm the selling price is it always when the puppies are 8 weeks old once they have their vet check up etc?

muddypaws

Ideally, you should be on a waiting list so would be in contact before the pups are born. You would then visit before the 8 weeks. Depending on how close you are, more than once. Vet check up shouldn't impact on the price of a pup at all, if a pup isn't healthy, then the breeder shouldn't be selling it. Vets should see the pups before 8 weeks, to check up on the mum and pups, then parvo vacc at 6 weeks, although not everyone follows that vaccination protocol.

ITgirl73

muddypaws wrote: »

Ideally, you should be on a waiting list so would be in contact before the pups are born. You would then visit before the 8 weeks. Depending on how close you are, more than once. Vet check up shouldn't impact on the price of a pup at all, if a pup isn't healthy, then the breeder shouldn't be selling it. Vets should see the pups before 8 weeks, to check up on the mum and pups, then parvo vacc at 6 weeks, although not everyone follows that vaccination protocol.

Thank you. The breeder I am dealing with is about an hours drive. I asked when I could visit & she said not until after vet visit & microchipped & would not confirm even a ballpark selling price. At what stage would they be microchipped would it be nearer to the 8 week. The lack of communication is worrying me.

Female breeder with links to IKC

muddypaws

ITgirl73 wrote: »

Thank you. The breeder I am dealing with is about an hours drive. I asked when I could visit & she said not until after vet visit & microchipped & would not confirm even a ballpark selling price. At what stage would they be microchipped would it be nearer to the 8 week. The lack of communication is worrying me.

Female breeder with links to IKC

I would run quickly in the opposite direction.

When you say links, what do you mean? Just because dogs are registered with the IKC, it doesn't mean the breeder is reputable.

ITgirl73

muddypaws wrote: »

I would run quickly in the opposite direction.

When you say links, what do you mean? Just because dogs are registered with the IKC, it doesn't mean the breeder is reputable.

Yes I am a bit worried about lack of contact. I got her name via breed club. I went that route as Done Deal looks horrific but I would have thought I would be allowed to see the puppies before the 8 weeks when I am a serious buyer. She told me I would be allowed to see them post vet & microchips process

I am finding this puppy process very difficult

muddypaws

Did the breeder say that the vet and microchip process wouldn't be until 8 weeks?

That is a worry that you got the name from the breed club. Did they ask you lots of questions about your own set up at home?

ITgirl73

muddypaws wrote: »

Did the breeder say that the vet and microchip process wouldn't be until 8 weeks?

That is a worry that you got the name from the breed club. Did they ask you lots of questions about your own set up at home?

Didn't mention timeframe just that I would be allowed to visit but did not say when. I thought I would be allowed to visit before the 8 weeks. She owns show quality dogs & appears to well known in breed circles & I cannot find anything bad about her online. Had 30 min phone conversation so she knows I owned this breed before etc. It is the lack of comms & selling price that is worrying me - is she going to turn around & say they are all sold or a 1000 euros per puppy etc.

muddypaws

ITgirl73 wrote: »

Didn't mention timeframe just that I would be allowed to visit but did not say when. I thought I would be allowed to visit before the 8 weeks. She owns show quality dogs & appears to well known in breed circles & I cannot find anything bad about her online. Had 30 min phone conversation so she knows I owned this breed before etc. It is the lack of comms & selling price that is worrying me - is she going to turn around & say they are all sold or a 1000 euros per puppy etc.

You may be able to visit before the 8 weeks, maybe she means initial vet check, rather than vaccination at 8 weeks?

Can I ask what breed it is?

ITgirl73

muddypaws wrote: »

You may be able to visit before the 8 weeks, maybe she means initial vet check, rather than vaccination at 8 weeks?

Can I ask what breed it is?

Want to be obscure as she might be reading boards & I don't to upset her as I might be over reacting but it is a small popular Chinese dog breed. I am hoping I am overreacting as she does appear to have high quality dogs & appears to have a good rep.

If I was a breeder, I would not be keen on someone visiting my puppies before they have had their first vaccination. You don't know where they've been, possibly visiting other breeders who may not be as careful with hygiene and the general health of their dogs and me.

Cherry Blossom

Before I got my pup I visited at 5 and 7 weeks. I was sprayed head to toe in a disinfectant spray before getting into the house. I was allowed to rub a clean teatowel over the pup to give to my existing dog so she got used to the scent. When I picked up the pup at least he knew me a little bit and I liked to think it lessened the upheaval a little bit of being taken away from his mum and sister to a strange house with strange people and a strange dog in it. I would be wondering how she is socialising the pups if she is not allowing anyone in. If she is a well-known breeder she also should have a fair idea of much she is charging for the pups. Maybe she has worries about dog thieves or something. I would just ask her her reasons for doing things this way.

Knine

That all sounds a bit strange. Puppy buyers visit mine long before they are 8 weeks old. They also visit several times. Often they have met the adults before the puppies are even born. They know well in advance the price of their pup. Children are also allowed visit & I will explain to both child & parents how to safely handle small breed puppies.

I find that the puppies love interacting with visitors & it is good for socialisation. I would be worried about where the puppies are being kept if you are not allowed visit.

With our new puppy last Summer, we had plenty of contact with the breeder before hand. New pups are recommended to stay with the mother for 8 weeks, but before those 8 weeks passed we were not only welcome but encouraged to come and see the new pup whenever we could. The breeder outlined the price to us upfront, and maintained a line of contact with us during the pregnancy/waiting period.

tk123

I saw Lucy when she was 3 weeks old, picked her then with the option of choosing another instead when they were a bit more older and active (they mostly asleep lol - something that hasn't changed for Lucy ) and also knew the price then too. Also discussed the parent's hip scores etc etc and met the mum - breeder didn't own the dad but he's a well known show retriever so plenty of info about him online. After the first phone call the breeder sent me pics of the parents and puppies straight away and then regular photos after that - it was like Christmas getting a mail with photos and very exciting lol Kind of OT but puppies will have a level of immunity from their mum - if a breeder told me I couldn't see the puppies because they hadn't been vaccinated I'd be wondering why they haven't got immunity from their mum and how healthy they are? Would the breeder maybe waiting to decide which puppy she wants to keep for showing?

ITgirl73

Nightmare she appears to be genuine breeder yet now have message to meet them to pick up puppy away from mother which I know is a no no. Cannot understand why they are doing this when I can see previously they had them collected at home with parents. Cannot understand why she is doing this now. So upsetting when up to now I can see they used to do everything by the book.

Graces7

ITgirl73 wrote: »

Nightmare she appears to be genuine breeder yet now have message to meet them to pick up puppy away from mother which I know is a no no. Cannot understand why they are doing this when I can see previously they had them collected at home with parents. Cannot understand why she is doing this now. So upsetting when up to now I can see they used to do everything by the book.

Ask her? Must be a valid reason, maybe family troubles etc?

Knine

Graces7 wrote: »

Ask her? Must be a valid reason, maybe family troubles etc?

Or more likely they are a puppy farmer or don't want you to see the conditions the dogs are kept in.

Run OP. There are plenty of reputable breeders out there.

Graces7

Knine wrote: »

Or more likely they are a puppy farmer or don't want you to see the conditions the dogs are kept in.

Run OP. There are plenty of reputable breeders out there.

Please see post 7. Thank you.

DBB

Graces7 wrote: »

Please see post 7. Thank you.

This breeder is raising a lot of alarm bells, this latest one would erase any doubts and have me running for the hills.
Just because they show dogs does not necessarily mean they're reputable. I know people who have bought pups and young adult dogs from the very, very top show people, and was appalled both at both the condition of the hugely-priced pup (filthy. Fleas), but mostly with their emotional stability (lack of) and behaviour.
The IKC judges don't go to the breeder's house to judge them! It's very easy to put up a front.
Op, seriously... I know you're desperately disappointed, but turn away. The right dog for you is out there.

Knine

Graces7 wrote: »

Please see post 7. Thank you.

Post 7 worries me too. I noted that last week a premises in Cavan was given permission for 350 dogs. How do you think they sell these puppies? Smuggling them to the UK is much more difficult now as puppy farmers don't want to be paying for passports etc.

Showing means nothing. Top Show Quality? Says who? Maybe the OP can PM me the breeders details because I show & in the show community in Ireland, everybody knows each other.

muddypaws

OP, as hard as it is, I would walk away from this breeder, but I would also contact the breed club and tell them all about my experiences with them. Hopefully they will then stop recommending them, which gives them a form of legitimacy.







I hope this isn't a duplicate of a post I already made, I'm having interweb troubles this morning

ITgirl73

Got another message now that they are taking puppies to other people to see so they don't want anyone to see where they were reared so. I cannot believe they are transporting small puppies around like that at just a few weeks old they must be terrified. I am shocked that they would do this. Appalling

tk123

ITgirl73 wrote: »

Got another message now that they are taking puppies to other people to see so they don't want anyone to see where they were reared so. I cannot believe they are transporting small puppies around like that at just a few weeks old they must be terrified. I am shocked that they would do this. Appalling

Sounds like they're trying to pressure you? I think you have enough strikes against this person now to walk away. Well done OP for taking a step back and questioning what's going on because it's all to easy for people to be pressured or manipulated when a pup is in front of them and the greeder wants their cash. 'Oh they're better off with me, I couldn't leave them' etc etc

jimf

sorry op its not what you want to hear but run a mile from this breeder
too many un ticked boxes for me

as somebody who has bred many litters of springers over the years I would be proud to welcome any potential new owners to my home to see and inspect where the pups and mam were looked after

it would also give me the opportunity to suss out the person that I was selling to also very important in my book

I have refused to sell to people that made the wrong impression but that's me been a grouchy old so so I suppose

ITgirl73

I have cut off contact rang other breeders tonight. Would love to know how many were purchased from the back of the car over the weekend

incaseiforget

O.P...I was parked in at a large shopping centre in Cork last Thursday evening , waiting for my daughter who had run in to do an errand.
Next thing I see woman meet a family and bring them bk to her car....she then popped open the boot of her car and started producing puppies...and they were 100% Shih Zu puppies!!
I've no doubt see was selling these beautiful creatures out of the boot of a saloon car.

ITgirl73

incaseiforget wrote: »

O.P...I was parked in at a large shopping centre in Cork last Thursday evening , waiting for my daughter who had run in to do an errand.
Next thing I see woman meet a family and bring them bk to her car....she then popped open the boot of her car and started producing puppies...and they were 100% Shih Zu puppies!!
I've no doubt see was selling these beautiful creatures out of the boot of a saloon car.

Oh my god that is awful when will people ever learn. I wonder was that my contact.

tk123

incaseiforget wrote: »

O.P...I was parked in at a large shopping centre in Cork last Thursday evening , waiting for my daughter who had run in to do an errand.
Next thing I see woman meet a family and bring them bk to her car....she then popped open the boot of her car and started producing puppies...and they were 100% Shih Zu puppies!!
I've no doubt see was selling these beautiful creatures out of the boot of a saloon car.

Did you see them taking one of the pups away?

incaseiforget

ITgirl73 wrote: »

Oh my god that is awful when will people ever learn. I wonder was that my contact.

That is what I was thinking!

incaseiforget

tk123 wrote: »

Did you see them taking one of the pups away?

I couldn't bet my life on it as when the family left they walked away from me....but there was no way she was just randomly parked...opening the boot and taking out pups...I saw at least two different pups. She actually drew attention to herself as people doubled bk to admire them...

tk123

incaseiforget wrote: »

I couldn't bet my life on it as when the family left they walked away from me....but there was no way she was just randomly parked...opening the boot and taking out pups...I saw at least two different pups. She actually drew attention to herself as people doubled bk to admire them...

Maybe she had them at vets and was socialising them while she was out?

incaseiforget

tk123 wrote: »

Maybe she had them at vets and was socialising them while she was out?

Doubt it! The family that were waiting for her were standing no more than 3 ft away from the front of my car ( and you could see the kids were super excited) ..she then approached them...and they all headed off to the right where she had pulled in....and boot of the car was then popped open....and out come the pups!
I hope I am wrong and she was socializing them but I fear not.....

ITgirl73

incaseiforget wrote: »

Doubt it! The family that were waiting for her were standing no more than 3 ft away from the front of my car ( and you could see the kids were super excited) ..she then approached them...and they all headed off to the right where she had pulled in....and boot of the car was then popped open....and out come the pups!
I hope I am wrong and she was socializing them but I fear not.....

No it doesn't sound good. The poor little things

sillysmiles

For the legitmate breeders on here - does the OP have any point in contacting the IKC and informing them of what was going on?
The general advice is to contact the IKC for a list of breeders, but if that breeder isn't legit - how does the IKC find out about it.

tk123

sillysmiles wrote: »

For the legitmate breeders on here - does the OP have any point in contacting the IKC and informing them of what was going on?
The general advice is to contact the IKC for a list of breeders, but if that breeder isn't legit - how does the IKC find out about it.

A poster who's 'in the know' asked the OP to PM the breeders details - Maybe they can update is with their impartial opinion.. without naming them obviously!

Nody

sillysmiles wrote: »

For the legitmate breeders on here - does the OP have any point in contacting the IKC and informing them of what was going on?
The general advice is to contact the IKC for a list of breeders, but if that breeder isn't legit - how does the IKC find out about it.

Playing the devil's lawyer here but:

Random person A (i.e. OP) - They are selling non IKC backyard breed dogs
IKC club - Thank you A; we'll look into it.
Breeder - They are talking out of their night cap; I only follow IKC regulations.
IKC club - *Throws notes in trash bin*

DBB

sillysmiles wrote: »

For the legitmate breeders on here - does the OP have any point in contacting the IKC and informing them of what was going on?
The general advice is to contact the IKC for a list of breeders, but if that breeder isn't legit - how does the IKC find out about it.

I've written to the IKC over the years with several clear examples of falsification of registration documents, and clear examples of rules being torn apart by IKC breeders... but not a peep out of them.
It's such a pity, because it is an organisation with such potential to do good, and there are some really wonderful breeders amongst them, but there are so many problems with the policing within the organisation's own rules that it's hard to have any real trust in them.
Generally, breed clubs are the prospective buyer's only hope when it comes to any sort of meaningful "quality control", but still no guarantees.

Knine

I have asked for PM's about this Breeder. I never got any. Nobody can do anything without any info. The breed in question is one of the most common puppy farm dogs.

A fellow Boardsie filled me in on an appalling situation last year regarding one of my breeds. The culprit was involved in showing & was coming up to judge. Lets just say they don't show anymore & the judging appointment never happened. Take from that what you want.