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Multi agency checkpoints.

  • 08-03-2017 12:13am
    #1
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭


    Following on from this thread that caught my eye over in motors, what rights do these multi agency checkpoints have.

    Its pretty obvious Gardai can check you licence and disks. Revenue can check for green diesel. But what rights do social welfare have?

    The suggestion that gardai can give them your details from your licence to do checks? Can Gardai share private information like this? Are they allowed to share information they get in the course of their duties with others? mmmmmm!

    Just curious what all you legal eagles make of this.


Comments

  • #2
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,258 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Some of their powers are detailed here.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/SWI---Powers-of-Social-Welfare-Inspectors.aspx

    There are also Gards seconded to DSP to investigate large scale frauds.


  • #3
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #4
    ScouseMouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Some of their powers are detailed here.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/SWI---Powers-of-Social-Welfare-Inspectors.aspx

    There are also Gards seconded to DSP to investigate large scale frauds.



    That links seems to say the inspectors have authority to enter premises (but not private homes without permission). Soooo, what about at the side of the road in a public place at a checkpoint?


  • #5
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #6
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,258 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Parts 15 and 16 of Section 250 of the 2005 act allow for Gardai to aid inspectors and for them to stop cars going to or from work. The power to stop cars isn't a RTA matter.


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  • #7
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #8
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,579 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I think a judge would look at the purpose of the 'stop' as envisaged by the legislation.


  • #9
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yup. I think the courts would have little difficulty in concluding that a power to "stop" a vehicle extends to directing a vehicle that is already stationery to remain so while the SW inspector makes the enquiries for which s.16(b) provides.

    In fact, a quick check of a standard dictionary confirms that this is a common sense of the word. Stop is defined in the OED thus: "To arrest the onward movement of (a person or thing); to bring to a stand or state of rest; to cause to halt on a journey; also, to prevent the departure or starting of".


  • #10
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,176 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    If someone wanted to go to that level of pedantry - couldn't the SW inspector and Garda simply make a new request to "stop" every time the vehicle began to move?


  • #11
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    But do you have to move it off the police man's foot? I suppose we'd have to ask Mr. Fagan.


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  • #12
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,258 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Stop the car; can any dole cheats alight the vehicle please, that way the car can keep on going about it's business :)


  • #13
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #14
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    The legislation only allows them to stop vehicles being used for employment or self employment. So once it is established the vehicle is not being used in such a manner they have no powers to detain you.

    Nope it was amended Fred, they can now stop any vehicle.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/9/section/13/enacted/en/html

    As amended:-
    (16) For the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, a social welfare inspector may, if accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána, or an officer of the Customs and Excise—

    (a) stop any vehicle, and

    (b) on production of his or her certificate of appointment where so requested—

    (i) question and make enquiries of any person in the vehicle or in the vicinity of the vehicle, and

    (ii) require such person, where the social welfare inspector reasonably suspects that the vehicle is being used in the course of employment or self-employment, to give to the social welfare inspector any record relating to the employment or self-employment of such person which such person has possession of in the vehicle.


  • #15
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    Mod
    Rant deleted. Do not post such rants here again, pls


  • #16
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    Ireland is gone like a Communist state. like who is watching the watchers the government checkpoints state ?Jobs for the boys /girls this is a very old fashioned not a modern thinking Ireland this is very Eamon de Valera thinking very backwards thinking Multi agency checkpoints I do not like them plus the cost a lot of money it looks like a keep you down country Ireland


    If it catches spongers and criminals I see no harm whatsoever.


  • #17
    please helpThank YOU
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    If it catches spongers and criminals I see no harm whatsoever.
    we have modern technology to this so we do not need people to this any more outdated stuff stand in the middle of the road. yellow jacket showing there power and talking down to people Eamon de Valera would love this . how much do the Multi agency checkpoints cost? there is cheaper ways to this this stuff with technology.


  • #18
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    please helpThank YOU wrote: »
    we have modern technology to this so we do not need people to this any more outdated stuff stand in the middle of the road. yellow jacket showing there power and talking down to people Eamon de Valera would love this . how much do the Multi agency checkpoints cost? there is cheaper ways to this this stuff with technology.


    Can still be very hard to prove. I've never come across a welfare one just customs and garda.


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