Not bothering to make a will in this case

somejoke

I know we all should..... but as I'm pushing 70 and my civil partner is 13yrs younger and estate is just a small town house and assuming that I will die first I was thinking of leaving the laws of intestacy which seems to cover all my wishes anyway (which is for my partner to inherit everything) to sort my affairs out.

It says

spouse/civil partner but no children - spouse/civil partner gets entire estate

Are there any drawbacks in my doing this.

nuac

Things change, often suddenly.

A will, properly drawn, expresses your wishes

uck51js9zml2yt

Get a will done. it leaves everythin nice and tidy for your partner.

Also ensure she gets one done as there are no guarantees who will go first.

cnoc

My wife and I have a mirror will.

danjo-xx

Were both dependant on the state anyway, one on state pension the younger on disability allowance and they are likely to become the surviving civil partner and will get everything. Which is what I want.

Lets say the situation is NOW and I have died intestate.

Is there anything my partner would loose out on.

Lisha

I think if you die intestate that your accounts are frozen until the issue is resolved.
Also I think there are tax implications and that the state gets a bigger chunk of estate.

I'm open to correction. These are the reasons I'm citing to my husband. He still won't make a bloody will though

beechwood55

danjo-xx wrote: »

Were both dependant on the state anyway, one on state pension the younger on disability allowance and they are likely to become the surviving civil partner and will get everything. Which is what I want.

Lets say the situation is NOW and I have died intestate.

Is there anything my partner would loose out on.

It takes longer to sort everything out if there is no will...much longer than if there is a will. Why do you not want to do it?

4ensic15

First off, a grant of administration in the High Court costs more and takes more time than having a will with an executor nominated. There is also the possibility that you could come into money suddenly and die very quickly after before making a will. This could happen through inheritance or winning a lottery. A will saying where any money you die possessed of should go deals with all issues. there is also the possibility that the civil partner could die before you and you could die almost immediately after with the result that intestacy disposes of you estate in some manner you don't approve of.

CIARAN_BOYLE

danjo-xx wrote: »

Were both dependant on the state anyway, one on state pension the younger on disability allowance and they are likely to become the surviving civil partner and will get everything. Which is what I want.

Lets say the situation is NOW and I have died intestate.

Is there anything my partner would loose out on.

Time. It's easier and quicker to resolve the estate if there is a will.

somejoke

somejoke wrote: »

I know we all should..... but as I'm pushing 70 and my civil partner is 13yrs younger and estate is just a small town house and assuming that I will die first I was thinking of leaving the laws of intestacy which seems to cover all my wishes anyway (which is for my partner to inherit everything) to sort my affairs out.

It says




Are there any drawbacks in my doing this.

What if you and your spouse die in a car crash? What happens to your stuff then?

Sleeper12

A will is the best way forward. I have mine done 15 years or more so I'm not up to date on pricing but I do remember it being very cheap to get done

tricky D

somejoke wrote: »

I know we all should..... but as I'm pushing 70 and my civil partner is 13yrs younger and estate is just a small town house and assuming that I will die first I was thinking of leaving the laws of intestacy which seems to cover all my wishes anyway (which is for my partner to inherit everything) to sort my affairs out.

It says




Are there any drawbacks in my doing this.

There's an adage about assumption being the mother of all screw-ups. A Will largely will remove the potential for such screw-ups and what if scenarios. There might also be additional costs and fees (eg. bonds) due in processing under intestacy. Spending a €100ish will ensure the best transfer of assets/property to your partner. Not spending a €100 could be a much more expensive mistake - for your partner. Penny-wise and pound-foolish is a real risk.

danjo-xx

..

coylemj

somejoke wrote: »

Are there any drawbacks in my doing this.

Yes, big time.

Consider if you and your civil partner are involved in a serious car crash, your partner dies first and you die the next day. Assuming that your partner has taken the same attitude as you and made no will, you will inherit all of your partner's estate for the last day of your life following which the combined estates of the two of you will be distributed under the rules of intestacy. This assumes that your partner has no children by the way.

Is this what you want - your partner's estate to be distributed exclusively to your next of kin with his/her relatives completely cut out?

infogiver

Very informative interesting discussion here, I just want to say.
Making a will should be in some way obligatory even if you have nothing.
Thanks to all the contributors to the legal discussion forum.

somejoke

thanks for all the replies. There is only one estate and thats mine.

My partner has no means savings or assets of any kind... zilch but as my surviving civil partner will inherit my estate. Sorted:)

If he dies before me then I might make a will leaving the estate (house is the only real asset) to charity if I haven't signed it over to equity release to raise some cash to live on at some stage, hope I never have to do that or the government doesn't take it from me under the private nursing scheme or whatever its called.


Think I just let the hair sit as no one can predict the future and just jump each fence as it come.

tricky D

Where property is involved, not making a Will is a seriously bad idea no matter the circumstances. You would be very foolish not to spend around €100 for guaranteed security. Edit; also I would be very surprised if it doesn't costs your surviving partner much more money and time when dealing with intestacy. You're not doing either of yourselves any favours here.

4ensic15

somejoke wrote: »

thanks for all the replies. There is only one estate and thats mine.

My partner has no means savings or assets of any kind... zilch but as my surviving civil partner will inherit my estate. Sorted:)

If he dies before me then I might make a will leaving the estate (house is the only real asset) to charity if I haven't signed it over to equity release to raise some cash to live on at some stage, hope I never have to do that or the government doesn't take it from me under the private nursing scheme or whatever its called.


Think I just let the hair sit as no one can predict the future and just jump each fence as it come.

You partner might die an hour before you, so you charitable gift would not happen. Your siblings or cousins would inherit.

Peregrinus

4ensic15 wrote: »

You partner might die an hour before you, so you charitable gift would not happen. Your siblings or cousins would inherit.

Or he might die an hour after you, in which case his siblings or cousins would inherit.

Seriously, make a will. You've got an asset worth hundreds of thousands, and a partner that you care about and want to see protected in all possible eventualities, not just the most likely eventuality. Skimping on a will here is just penny-pinching of the worst kind.

somejoke

Peregrinus wrote: »

Or he might die an hour after you, in which case his siblings or cousins would inherit.

Seriously, make a will. You've got an asset worth hundreds of thousands, and a partner that you care about and want to see protected in all possible eventualities, not just the most likely eventuality. Skimping on a will here is just penny-pinching of the worst kind.

Explain to me how they could have any claim in that situation.

infogiver

somejoke wrote: »

Explain to me how they could have any claim in that situation.

if you die, it all goes to him, and if he then dies then his next of kin (his parents, siblings, nieces nephews) all would have a claim.

somejoke

infogiver wrote: »

if you die, it all goes to him, and if he then dies then his next of kin (his parents, siblings, nieces nephews) all would have a claim.

If he dies the next day then there is no surviving civil partner to inherit anything.

infogiver

somejoke wrote: »

If he dies the next day then there is no surviving civil partner to inherit anything.

Ok. Civil partner/spouse NO1 dies and leaves everything to civil partner/spouse NO2.
Then civil partner/spouse NO2 dies.
Everything then can be claimed by the next of kin of the civil partner NO2.

somejoke

infogiver wrote: »

Ok. Civil partner/spouse NO1 dies and leaves everything to civil partner/spouse NO2.
Then civil partner/spouse NO2 dies.
Everything then can be claimed by the next of kin of the civil partner NO2.

But NO. 1 is not leaving anything to No. 2. But under the law of the land a surviving spouse/civil partner will inherit everything if no children.


But if your dead how can you inherit anything and then your family.

Atlantic Dawn

Even if you have no other family on the face of the earth only your spouse/partner it is much easier, cheaper and faster for them to get your assets after your death if you have a simple will made, no will can mean possibly years of limbo.

4ensic15

somejoke wrote: »

But NO. 1 is not leaving anything to No. 2. But under the law of the land a surviving spouse/civil partner will inherit everything if no children.


.

What happens when that spouse or partner dies immediately after inheriting?

infogiver

4ensic15 wrote: »

What happens when that spouse or partner dies immediately after inheriting?

As I said, if you inherit it it becomes yours.
Then if you die, your will comes into play. If you haven't left a will then your immediate family will get it. Eventually.

Peregrinus

somejoke wrote: »

But NO. 1 is not leaving anything to No. 2. But under the law of the land a surviving spouse/civil partner will inherit everything if no children.


But if your dead how can you inherit anything and then your family.

Civil Partner No. 1 dies at noon from injuries sustained in a car accident, leaving no will, survived by Civil Partner no. 2. Civil Partner no. 1's entire estate passes to Civil Partner no. 2.

At 2 p.m., civil partner no. 2 dies (from injuries sustained in the same car accident). leaving no will. His estate consists largely or entirely of the house, etc, that he inherited from civil partner no. 1 two hours previously. His surviving next-of-kin is his second cousin Margery, whom he hasn't seen since 1964, and who lives in British Columbia. Civil partner no. 1 never met Margery and in fact does not know of her existence.

Margery gets the lot.

This is probably not the outcome civil partner no. 1 would want. Which is why it would be a good idea to make some wills here.

Victor

I knew someone who was going on here first foreign holiday for her 25th wedding anniversary. So she had to get her first passport. So she needed a marriage certificate. But none existed, because the paperwork was never processed.

You never know what might go wrong.

Mellor

somejoke wrote: »

If he dies the next day then there is no surviving civil partner to inherit anything.

That's precisely the point others are making. If you die first, when your partner dies, the estate will go to his next of kin.

That's how the sibling/cousins have a claim to the estate, as you asked.

Mellor

Peregrinus wrote: »

Civil Partner No. 1 dies at noon from injuries sustained in a car accident, leaving no will, survived by Civil Partner no. 2. Civil Partner no. 1's entire estate passes to Civil Partner no. 2.

At 2 p.m., civil partner no. 2 dies (from injuries sustained in the same car accident). leaving no will. His estate consists largely or entirely of the house, etc, that he inherited from civil partner no. 1 two hours previously. His surviving next-of-kin is his second cousin Margery, whom he hasn't seen since 1964, and who lives in British Columbia. Civil partner no. 1 never met Margery and in fact does not know of her existence.

Margery gets the lot.

This is probably not the outcome civil partner no. 1 would want. Which is why it would be a good idea to make some wills here.

Devils advocate here. But if Civil Partner No. 1 had made a will and left everything to Civil Partner No. 2. Wouldn't the outcome have been the same?
Margery gets the lot.

As of today I'm a homeowner and as part of the title we had to specify whether we wanted a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. which is the only form of Will I have atm. A situation like the above might arise for me, but unsure how a wire could resolve it.

Peregrinus

Mellor wrote: »

Devils advocate here. But if Civil Partner No. 1 had made a will and left everything to Civil Partner No. 2. Wouldn't the outcome have been the same?
Margery gets the lot.

As of today I'm a homeowner and as part of the title we had to specify whether we wanted a joint tenancy or tenancy in common. which is the only form of Will I have atm. A situation like the above might arise for me, but unsure how a wire could resolve it.

If the Civil Partners go to a professional for advice on making a will (as opposed to filling out some form that they find through google and download for free) they should end up with a will which addresses this problem.

They'll be encouraged to consider a couple of provisions:

1. A provision in no. 1's will that leaves the entire estate to no. 2 if no. 2 survives by (say) 30 days; otherwise the estate goes to (say) a charity nominated by no. 1. (And that would cover both the case of no. 2 dying very shorty after no. 1, and the very obvious possibility of no. 2 dying before no. 1). Obviously whatever time limit you put in here, no. 2 could survive by just a bit more, but if people are going to died from, e.g., being the same accident, or being exposed to the same virulent infection, they will usually do so within a month of each other, so the 30-day rule goes a long way towards addressing that situation.

2. No. 1 and no. 2 could make mutual wills, each leaving his estate to the other (provide the other survives by 30 days), and in case the other does not survive, each leaving the estate to a charity that they have jointly agreed, or each dividing the estate in 2 equal parts and leaving one part to his own family and the other to the other's family. That way, regardless of which one survives the other, any estate which remains after they both die will be divided equally between the two families.

Or they can make any other arrangement they wish. The point is, they can think about the variety of futures that might unfold, and make explicit provision for what they would like to happen in each of those possibilities.

Mellor

Cheers that covers my questions.
Was aware that any number of provisions and hoops can cover the what ifs. But wasn't sure if a very basic "No.2 Gets everything" covered anything that's not already covered by intestacy.


In any case, you raised an potential issue issue with my own estate. Depending in order where we both pass away. One family or the other would inherit everything. A loophole I'll have to close in future.

Peregrinus

Mellor wrote: »

Cheers that covers my questions.
Was aware that any number of provisions and hoops can cover the what ifs. But wasn't sure if a very basic "No.2 Gets everything" covered anything that's not already covered by intestacy.

Asssuming no. 2 survives no. 1, having a will won't change the eventual outcome. But it may get you to that outcome quicker, and it may put no. 2 in a stronger position if, God forbid, there is a dispute over the property before probate is granted.

Of course, if no. 2 does not survive, a one-line "no. 2 gets everything" will is useless.

Mellor wrote: »

In any case, you raised an potential issue issue with my own estate. Depending in order where we both pass away. One family or the other would inherit everything. A loophole I'll have to close in future.

If you're already a property owner, you need to close it now, not "in the future". Not to be gloomy or anything, but you know not the day nor the hour etc. etc. I'm a teeny bit surprised the solicitor acting in the purchase of your property didn't suggest that round about now might be a good time to make a will.

Victor

Peregrinus wrote: »

1. A provision in no. 1's will that leaves the entire estate to no. 2 if no. 2 survives by (say) 30 days;

If they have no independent means, what would a dependent survivor live on for the 30 days?

4ensic15

Victor wrote: »

If they have no independent means, what would a dependent survivor live on for the 30 days?

Whatever they live on it wouldn't come from the estate anyway. Bank accounts etc would be frozen until there is a grant of probate.

Peregrinus

Victor wrote: »

If they have no independent means, what would a dependent survivor live on for the 30 days?

If the circumstances of the couple are such that that needs to be addressed, it can be addressed.

Note that regardless of what the will says, or whether there's a will or not, probate is not going to issue in 30 days, or anything like, so this is an issue that arises in all cases where the breadwinner dies and one or more dependents survive, and it's not generally possible to resolve it through any provision in the will, because that won't operate quickly enough. Generally banks are flexible about allowing access to cash in joint accounts and/or advancing reasonable credit in the expectation of inheritance to cover immediate needs. And the Dept of Social Protection and/or the administrators of occupational and private pension funds understand the need to move quickly to start any survivor's benefits that may be payable.

somejoke

thanks again for replies. 'Sometimes' some of us are not in a position to do the right and sensible thing because of current circumstances.


My OP was more about what can happen if there is no will.


If No. 2 dies soon after No. 1. I can't see how his family could have any claim
on the estate or am I missing something.

infogiver

somejoke wrote: »

thanks again for replies. 'Sometimes' some of us are not in a position to do the right and sensible thing because of current circumstances.


My OP was more about what can happen if there is no will.


If No. 2 dies soon after No. 1. I can't see how his family could have any claim
on the estate or am I missing something.

Well, who do you think will get the estate?
The next of kin (closest blood family) of the deceased gets the estate if there's no will which states otherwise.
So if no. 2 dies (having made no will) after no. 1 died, then no. 2's closest blood family will get the entire estate.
Just to ask you again, who did YOU think would get the estate?

somejoke

infogiver wrote: »

Well, who do you think will get the estate?
The next of kin (closest blood family) of the deceased gets the estate if there's no will which states otherwise.
So if no. 2 dies (having made no will) after no. 1 died, then no. 2's closest blood family will get the entire estate.
Just to ask you again, who did YOU think would get the estate?

Well I thought the state would get it. One bit of info I should have mentioned is that the house is in my name only.

hullaballoo

somejoke wrote: »

Well I thought the state would get it. One bit of info I should have mentioned is that the house is in my name only.

One thing that you seem to be missing here is that intestacy is expensive for the estate. A simple will for a hundred or so euro could save thousands in the event of your death.

Or do you specifically intend that a sizeable proportion of your estate should be simply handed over to lawyers? That would irritate most people.

infogiver

somejoke wrote: »

Well I thought the state would get it. One bit of info I should have mentioned is that the house is in my name only.

No you did mention that.
And when you die it will be your civil partners.
And when he dies it will belong to whoever he gives it to in his will.
And if he hasn't made a will, his closest blood family will get it.

tricky D

4ensic15 wrote: »

Whatever they live on it wouldn't come from the estate anyway. Bank accounts etc would be frozen until there is a grant of probate.

Further to this, with a Will one can set up an Executor account and admin from that assuming some monies inward. The banks will allow for funeral and associated expenses, but I can't recall if this is possible without a Will naming Executors.

OP now that you mention that you have sole ownership getting a Will has just become more important.

As to what will happen without a Will the answer is simply a shed load more uncertainty, time wasted, solicitor expenses, possible expenses for bonds, problems processing other expenses eg. funeral. All these are above and beyond the already expense and hassle processing of an estate.

If your circumstances aren't great, try to save a few bucks a week and get one done up as soon as you can. It would be madness to neglect this matter.

Peregrinus

somejoke wrote: »

thanks again for replies. 'Sometimes' some of us are not in a position to do the right and sensible thing because of current circumstances.


My OP was more about what can happen if there is no will.


If No. 2 dies soon after No. 1. I can't see how his family could have any claim
on the estate or am I missing something.

If no. 1, the property owner, dies without making a will his estate will pass to no. 2, his civil partner, who is his next of kin.

If no. 2 also dies without making a will, his estate (which will include everything he inherited from no. 1 and hasn't already spend, sold or given away) will pass to his next-of-kin. Assuming he hasn't remarried, begotten any children, etc, in the meantime, his next-of-kin will be his more distant family. No. 1's family, close or distant, aren't related to him and won't be in line to get anything.

You can see how this would play out if no. 1 dies, and no. 2 dies shortly afterwards.

infogiver

OP if you and/or your civil partner don't want his family (for whatever reason) to benefit financially in any way when you are both dead, then this is even more of a reason for you both to discuss it now in an open and frank manner, and soon afterwards visit a solicitor who will put your mind at rest and arrange things for you for less then €100.
Then you can get on with living without it lurking in the back of your mind.

somejoke

If I was to make a Will, the only person I could appoint as executor is my partner, but he wouldn't have a clue how to handle stuff like that unfortunately.

Elemonator

Always draw up one. Also prevents petty claims against your estate.

Ghekko

somejoke wrote: »

If I was to make a Will, the only person I could appoint as executor is my partner, but he wouldn't have a clue how to handle stuff like that unfortunately.

Your solicitor would do all the necessary paper work in that case. I really would advise to have a will for the sake of your partner having an easier time sorting things out if you pass first.

Mellor

somejoke wrote: »

If No. 2 dies soon after No. 1. I can't see how his family could have any claim
on the estate or am I missing something.

It's been explained a number of times. It goes to the next of kin if there's no will.

Look at it this way, if you died leaving the house to your partner. And he survived for 20 years. When he died the house would be his estate to be inherited by whoever.

somejoke wrote: »

Well I thought the state would get it. One bit of info I should have mentioned is that the house is in my name only.

Why would the state get it?
After you die the house wont be in your name only. Or at all tbh.

somejoke

Someone said I could make a Will leaving estate to partner and stating on his death I want the house to go to charity.

Is that possible? I thought once partner inherits house they could do what they like with if after completing any bequeath etc on it.


If it is possible, how can it be delivered as I have no one around to make sure that happens.

infogiver

somejoke wrote: »

Someone said I could make a Will leaving estate to partner and stating on his death I want the house to go to charity.

Is that possible? I thought once partner inherits house they could do what they like with if after completing any bequeath etc on it.


If it is possible, how can it be delivered as I have no one around to make sure that happens.

Somejoke you really need to consult with a solicitor.
Most of the Citizens Information Centres have a free legal advice service on a regular basis.
You can talk to a solicitor there.
He or she won't actually do anything for you, just give you some information and advice.
It's free and confidential.
You should enquire about it st your nearest Centre