Best way to deal with new tenants

ballyharpat

I have a house let out, it's a terraced house in the centre of town. The tenants are there 3 months. Rent is always on time and they are very happy there, they have never rang me about a problem or wanted me to do anything extra since they moved in.

I rang them last week to say I'd like to do a check on the house and let me know a time that would suit. They are very obliging and said I have a key to call over any time I want.
I prefer to have one of them there so I can hear about some issues that may arise and if there are issues that I can point out directly rather than do it over phone or text.

They are taking relatively good care of the house-as in, no major damage or no intentional damage.
However, there is a lot of mould, they are drying clothes on a clothes horse in the kitchen and they are not opening windows.
In the contract and one of the things I said to them was no drying clothes in the house, there is a line out the back and they can also use the utility room, providing they have the window open. There is also a clothes dryer in the utility room, they have never emptied the water or cleaned the filters.
Also the bathroom and one of the bedrooms has bad mould, again, I stated that the windows are to be opened frequently for ventilation.

I provide a coal bunker out the back for coal and briquettes etc. They are not using it, so the utility room is full of coal and coal dust, they said it was too cold to go out. They are burning cheap coal, and as it's in a built up area, smokeless coal is the onl coal supposed to be burned in these areas.

The kitchen, relatively clean, has a lot of grease on the cupboards that is not being cleaned, they are only there 3 months and it's pretty dirty, also there are lots of handprints on the walls and it was freshly painted the week they moved in.

They are two brothers in their 40's, nice guys. I don't want to evict them, but I also don't want to be stuck if the issues persist. They are on a 12 month lease currently.
I explained the issues and said I would be back in two weeks to check that it is cleaned and maintained better regarding the filthy utility room and the mould problem as well as clothes drying in the house etc.

How should I proceed to protect myself?

Also, would it be a good idea for me to say the issue about the coal being burned, as it is actually filthy and I notice the sitting room being black from smoke already. Also should I say it about cleaning the kitchen cupboards? Do I have a right as a landlord to ask them to do this?

Should I keep them on this lease? Or is there another lease I can now give to them on a short term, to prevent them getting a part iv and being entitled to stay there no matter what.

Any experience would be appreciated, thank you.

pilly

The issue of mould keeps coming up again and again on boards and I really don't understand why. I've never used a tumble dryer in my life, don't like them. I always dry clothes outside on the line in good weather or inside on a clothes horse and I've never had mould in a house.

I really don't think you can blame mould on drying clothes inside. Others may disagree. Also ventilation, modern houses now have vents in every room so it's not absolutely necessary to open windows, now in saying that I do it for other reasons like airing the place, fresh air etc. but I do know a lot of people who would never do it.

I'm not sure if you're over-reacting to be honest. A serious build up of mould after 3 months would suggest something wrong with the house to me.

Putting coal in the utility room however is totally out of order, definitely tell them to stop this. Don't know about the smokeless fuel issue, if it's a Dublin property I didn't think you could buy the smoky kind any more, it's illegal to sell it. If it's outside Dublin it hasn't actually been banned as yet, will be later this year as far as I know.

REM76

I think you're being a bit naive. A tenant just wants somewhere to rent. They don't care about your appliances, or mould or degreasing your precious cupboards. They just want somewhere to live.

If you honestly think two brothers renting together in their 40s are gonna spend anytime scrubbing your cupboards or dodging the rain to hang out clothes, rather than using the dryer, you are fooling yourself. I doubt they know what filters are.

I would suggest you hire a cleaner to look after your place. EUR40 a week should easily cover it. The lads will be glad of it and you'll be happy you're place is getting cleaned and aired. Don't even think of charging them for it. It will also be much cheaper than an agent, who won't so much as lift a dishcloth for you.

the_syco

ballyharpat wrote: »

I provide a coal bunker out the back for coal and briquettes etc. They are not using it, so the utility room is full of coal and coal dust, they said it was too cold to go out.

Too cold? Tough sh|t, tbh.

ballyharpat wrote: »

Also, would it be a good idea for me to say the issue about the coal being burned, as it is actually filthy and I notice the sitting room being black from smoke already.

Sounds like your chimney may need cleaning?

antoinolachtnai

On your final question the answer is no. There is no way to prevent their gaining part IV Rights.

Your tenants are nice people but bad housekeepers.

I don't know what else to say really. I don't know you or your standards. It is possible if I saw it in person I would think you are making a fuss about nothing. But it does sound like a real issue to me. The house is getting very dirty, needlessly, and same goes for the mould.

The issue for these lads is that you have no real reason to let them stay in this rental market. You can get someone else any day of the week.

I suppose I would give them a week to sort it out, or you will give them notice.

A lot of your issues obviously arise from heating and ventilation. Personally I would not let out a property where coal is a major source of heat. It is just too messy and dangerous. If I could get the money together at all I would put in central heating ASAP.

ballyharpat

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-3043441/Is-bad-hang-clothes-dry-inside-landlord-says-is.html


I bought the house in 1997 and lived in it for 2 years before moving away and renting it, I moved back in in 2010 and never had a problem with dampness or mould in the house. I have had it rented out prior to this and initially had a similar problem, until I told the tenant the solution-open the windows for ventilation-simple solution.

Most leases actually state that drying of clothes is not allowed in the house, there is a dryer and a line provided. Both the leases for my places have it written as standard.

Regarding cleaning the filters, it is a requirement as a tenant, to maintain any item provided, that includes emptying the water from and the filter for the tumble dryer, just like defrosting a fridge, if the tenant fails these basic maintenance tasks and the item breaks, they are liable for the replacement of a new or similar item due to negligence.

Regarding the cupboards, I never expect any of my tenants to keep the place as clean as my own, but I also expect a level of cleanliness to prevent the long term deterioration of any furniture and fittings provided.

There is a smoky coal ban in place in a lot of areas, I just checked and my area is not one-unortunately-it's the cheap polish coal e12 per bag they are burning, it is very very smoky-the chimney was cleaned prior to them moving in.

Regarding getting a cleaner-I think you're being a bit naive, if you rent any place, you are supposed to maintain it, if not, you can risk losing it-that does not matter if it's 2 men, 2 women, a family or any other mix.


So again, here are the questions if anyone can help answer them-with experience, the other matters above I am content are being handled in the lease-

How should I proceed to protect myself?

Also, would it be a good idea for me to say the issue about the coal being burned, as it is actually filthy and I notice the sitting room being black from smoke already. Also should I say it about cleaning the kitchen cupboards? Do I have a right as a landlord to ask them to do this?

Should I keep them on this lease? Or is there another lease I can now give to them on a short term, to prevent them getting a part iv and being entitled to stay there no matter what.

pilly

Well I am trying to give you my advice as both a LL and a tenant so it's not as if I don't have any experience. So, if it's in the lease that clothes shouldn't be dried in the house then insist on this, fine. But you do say in one post that they don't use the drier and in another that they've never changed the filter. If they haven't used it why would they change the filters?

On the question of the coal, no I don't think you should/could say it. It's not a smokeless fuel area so they aren't doing anything wrong there. They're definitely doing wrong keeping it in the utility room. That's bang out of order. Tell them to stop doing that.

The kitchen cupboards I don't know, one man's clean is another man's filthy.

I have found as a LL that you have to expect a little wear and tear and dirt and accept it as a cost of renting the place out. Think of this way, if they stay there for a few years the place will have to be repainted anyway.

Maybe I'm just more easy-going but I think you'll have to relax a little about it or you'll spend years stressing yourself. No tenant will be perfect. Situation could be a lot worse, they could be having mad parties and wrecking the place altogether. Better the devil you know and all that.

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This post has been deleted.

ballyharpat

Okay-so ventilation does the same job as opening a window-except you do not get a choice on when you do it, vents can be installed in windows that means there is permanent ventilation, but it means you can't close the vents any time you want as well.

As I lived in the house for 6 years and never had a problem with mould, neither did the other tenants who were there for a lot longer than 3 months.

There is mould in one bedroom around the window and around the tiles in the bathroom.

Fortunately, I went through the standard lease I used and it clearly states that the tenant maintains all furniture and equipment to the standard it was in when they took hold of the property, wear and tear being an exception.
I rang the tenants with this this evening and asked them to read the lease and I would be over after. They apologised and I did as antoinolachtnai suggested, so they agree that they should have cleaned the grease from the cupboards, they agree as per the lease that they will be opening the windows for ventilation and will no longer use the clothes horse in the house other than the utility room.

As has been stated, there is no need for a landlord to have a 200k investment ruined because someone is too lazy to clean, walk to the clothes line, or the bunker or too lazy to clean a dryer filter or open a window.
Sometimes a scare can do it and if it doesn't, I definitely will not be

1-Hiring a cleaner
2-accepting that that's the way it is.

ballyharpat

Thank you very much antoinolachtnai, you seem to be the only one that actually read the post thoroughly and gave a response that addressed the question I asked,
There is also electric heating in the house, as it's a terraced house it has no place to put an oil tank so that's out of the question, I live in a a few doors up, and this house suffered from 'mould and dampness' when I bought it, guess what, I aired the house out and left the windows opened for a few moths, there is not a bit of dampness in this house either-amazing what a bit of common sense can do-and I got a massive discount on this house because of the 'major' problem.

I think this deserves a second posting, maybe the other members didn't click on it the first time around....
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-3043441/Is-bad-hang-clothes-dry-inside-landlord-says-is.html

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

On your final question the answer is no. There is no way to prevent their gaining part IV Rights.

Your tenants are nice people but bad housekeepers.

I don't know what else to say really. I don't know you or your standards. It is possible if I saw it in person I would think you are making a fuss about nothing. But it does sound like a real issue to me. The house is getting very dirty, needlessly, and same goes for the mould.

The issue for these lads is that you have no real reason to let them stay in this rental market. You can get someone else any day of the week.

I suppose I would give them a week to sort it out, or you will give them notice.

A lot of your issues obviously arise from heating and ventilation. Personally I would not let out a property where coal is a major source of heat. It is just too messy and dangerous. If I could get the money together at all I would put in central heating ASAP.

newacc2015

Buy a dehumidifier for them. It will remove the excess humidity from the house and prevent mould. They are pretty cheap to run.

Do you have an extractor fan in the bathroom? If so, have they turned off the switch. Irish tenant love to turn them off due to the noise. They are generally surprised when you show them if you close the door, you cant hear the fan.

the_syco

newacc2015 wrote: »

Do you have an extractor fan in the bathroom? If so, have they turned off the switch. Irish tenant love to turn them off due to the noise. They are generally surprised when you show them if you close the door, you cant hear the fan.

This. Also, have it timed to go off two minutes after they turn the light off. Great for getting rid of smell as well :pac:

mikeoneilly

The house is probably not up to temperature all the time if you have electric heating.Thats probably why you're having issues with the mold

If that's the case you'd need a lot of ventilation to cope with the indoor drying

ballyharpat

I may do the humidifier thing, but they will be paying for it if they want to stay, it's not an issue that I've had with other tenants, and they are getting the property at about €40 cheaper per week than the market rate.

Yeah, I went through the basic house details with them again this evening, when cooking, pull out the hood so that the extractor fan comes on-automatically, when taking a shower, turn on the switch for the light and the fan comes on automatically, open the window after the shower for even just 5 minutes, I'm actually confident that it will all work out, one way or the other, I can evict them even for their lack of maintenance, which I'd prefer not to do, or they can decide to get the finger out and take care, it's also written into the lease that I can inspect every two months with prior notice, and this is actually a legal obligation, if a landlord doesn't check their property, they cannot hold a tenant liable, as the landlord is considered negligent, for not checking :eek:

They were very apologetic, so we'll see, I have tenants that would move in in the morning if I wanted, and these guys know that as well.

newacc2015 wrote: »

Buy a dehumidifier for them. It will remove the excess humidity from the house and prevent mould. They are pretty cheap to run.

Do you have an extractor fan in the bathroom? If so, have they turned off the switch. Irish tenant love to turn them off due to the noise. They are generally surprised when you show them if you close the door, you cant hear the fan.

ballyharpat

Seriously, I understand that you may think you are helping, but can you read the posts.

I lived in the house and never had a mould issue, I've had the house rented out to 4 other various tenants, none of them had a problem with mould.

And why would I allow indoor drying, here for the third time- http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-3043441/Is-bad-hang-clothes-dry-inside-landlord-says-is.html

mikeoneilly wrote: »

The house is probably not up to temperature all the time if you have electric heating.Thats probably why you're having issues with the mold

utmbuilder

i think you have way too much time on your hands, the day of hobby landlords micro managing their tenants is gone, most are running out of the market.

worrying about how people dry their clothes, and monitoring the type of fuel they are using is nuts. check the house every 6 months and if there is not holes in walls , go on about your business, its a investment.

with all the media coverage on people not paying landlords and getting years free rent, hobby landlords like yourself are really getting screwed.

all it takes if the tenant telling you to F*off and then the relationship is broken down for good. then your trying to evict them. stop worrying about how they dry their boxer shorts, and focus on other things , if its not broke dont fix it.

If you try to evict them and they stop paying rent you will have to go for a court order, even if they are not past the 6 month mark and on a part 4. even prior to the 6 month mark no one will evict them for you without a court order. The awareness of a landlords rights is all over the media week in week out, tenants are a lot less likely these days to follow the rules.

On second thoughts are you even suited to rent out a home? Are you business minded for this investment, do you think many other landlords worry about dirty cupboards? Why not sell up?

Most leases actually state that drying of clothes is not allowed in the house, there is a dryer and a line provided. Both the leases for my places have it written as standard.

I have to chuckle bitterly at this bit as my lease states Im not allowed dry clothes on the balcony so have to dry them indoors.

Maybe its just as well. Some of the weather we have had recently is not conducive to drying outside. Gale force winds = Great drying. Gale force winds + rain = water moving horizontally making the clothes wetter. Not to mention your boxers flying into next doors garden.

I have a dehumidifier. 90 euro in Aldi. We never had a problem with damp before, but, with the amount of clothes we are drying I thought it'd be no harm in having. Plus in hot weather it acts like a mini air conditioner.

They are only there 3 months. For a place to go from completely fresh and dry to mould in 3 rooms in 3 months means they are either having hottub parties in the living room or there is something else afoot. Recent environmental changes maybe?

vents can be installed in windows that means there is permanent ventilation

I take from this that there are no vents installed. I thought that was a requirement nowadays? Its all very well saying "just open a window", but its March. They have been there for 3 months so for the 3 coldest months of the year. Ive not had a window open for more than 5 minutes in the last 3 months either.

Hand prints on the walls... They happen. Ive left more than one hand print on a wall. Its not something that happens from sustained abuse its something that happens once, but the print is left to remind everyone. I'd chalk it down to wear and tear.

ballyharpat

Guess what?
The time on my hands is spent being a landlord, that's my income-the same as if you worked as a successful entrepreneur, you'd be making an income from a successful company, but not numerous failed start ups.

I'm a successful landlord, in that I've been doing it for long enough and well enough not to have to do anything else. Average turnover of a tenant is 4 years. I guess I'm a real ass as a landlord.

Guess How long I've been a landlord? go back and read the post, it will save you the embarrassment. But if I ever want advice about contacting threshold, no doubt you'd be very successful in that area.

As you say, property is an investment, and as with any investment, if it starts to go south, you don't sit idly by when you have a chance to do something about, and that goes the same for stocks as well as property, but you may be different, best of look in your ventures.

utmbuilder wrote: »

i think you have way too much time on your hands, the day of hobby landlords micro managing their tenants is gone, most are running out of the market.

worrying about how people dry their clothes, and monitoring the type of fuel they are using is nuts. check the house every 6 months and if there is not holes in walls , go on about your business, its a investment.

with all the media coverage on people not paying landlords and getting years free rent, hobby landlords like yourself are really getting screwed.

all it takes if the tenant telling you to F*off and then the relationship is broken down for good. then your trying to evict them. stop worrying about how they dry their boxer shorts, and focus on other things , if its not broke dont fix it.

If you try to evict them and they stop paying rent you will have to go for a court order, even if they are not past the 6 month mark and on a part 4. even prior to the 6 month mark no one will evict them for you without a court order. The awareness of a landlords rights is all over the media week in week out, tenants are a lot less likely these days to follow the rules.

On second thoughts are you even suited to rent out a home? Are you business minded for this investment, do you think many other landlords worry about dirty cupboards? Why not sell up?

mikeoneilly

They should be using the condenser dryer and cleaning and emptying it if there is one provided.

At the same time you need adequate heat and ventilation which I'm not clear there is here.

ballyharpat

mikeoneilly wrote: »

They should be using the condenser dryer and cleaning and emptying it if there is one provided.

At the same time you need adequate heat and ventilation which I'm not clear there is here.

The house was built in 1890, there are vents on the windows, I think that it Amy be a good idea, currently to change these to permanent open vents, when I installed the windows, I was given the option of permanent or optional, I went with optional, and it's never been an issue until now.
The heat is electric and stove, again, it's never been an issue. And yes, they should be using the dryer, which they have agreed to.
I don't think people realise the health issues caused by drying clothes indoors, and it's clear from the replies on this thread the amount of people that do it, or seem to think it's okay.
Anyone that would ask a doctor the health risks posed, would definitely think twice about drying them indoors.

ballyharpat

ballyharpat wrote: »

The house was built in 1890, there are vents on the windows, I think that it Amy be a good idea, currently to change these to permanent open vents, when I installed the windows, I was given the option of permanent or optional, I went with optional, and it's never been an issue until now.
The heat is electric and stove, again, it's never been an issue. And yes, they should be using the dryer, which they have agreed to.
I don't think people realise the health issues caused by drying clothes indoors, and it's clear from the replies on this thread the amount of people that do it, or seem to think it's okay.
Anyone that would ask a doctor the health risks posed, would definitely think twice about drying them indoors.

Whats the BER rating of the house?

newacc2015

newacc2015 wrote: »

Do you have an extractor fan in the bathroom? If so, have they turned off the switch. Irish tenant love to turn them off due to the noise.

Running an automatic fan off the lighting circuit is an Irish thing, probably linked to the silly ban on switches in bathrooms here.

Other countries put wall switches for the fan so that it doesnt come on if somebody pees in the middle on the night, waking the house, but can be switched on when showering for however long is necessary.

benjilxp

ballyharpat wrote: »

The house was built in 1890, there are vents on the windows, I think that it Amy be a good idea, currently to change these to permanent open vents, when I installed the windows, I was given the option of permanent or optional, I went with optional, and it's never been an issue until now.
The heat is electric and stove, again, it's never been an issue. And yes, they should be using the dryer, which they have agreed to.
I don't think people realise the health issues caused by drying clothes indoors, and it's clear from the replies on this thread the amount of people that do it, or seem to think it's okay.
Anyone that would ask a doctor the health risks posed, would definitely think twice about drying them indoors.

SO you don't have fixed vents in every room? That seems to be the problem as vents on windows don't do much when blinds and curtains are pulled

4ensic15

Those tenants are pigs. you should warn them in writing and if they don't improve, get rid of them.

The_Conductor

Thread closed at the OP's request.