Immigration Thread in Politics Cafe

Kivaro

Could anyone shine light on why the post below received an infraction.
At least two of the PC mods (pun unintended) participate in the discussion but they are overwhelming biased in one direction and hand out confusing bans and infractions, even when links and other evidence are provided when demanded. Obviously news dumps and other inappropriate posts should be dealt with, but it is getting confusing in there. There seems to be no distinction between the moderator hat and the contributor hat when they are posting.

AlekSmart wrote: »

I dunno....as the Mods did'nt challenge the Cologne Mayor point,I'm confident that it's one worth making ?

For sure,Henreitta Reker's Mayoral comments might have gotten her a mod's attention had she posted them on Boards....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mayor-of-cologne-says-women-should-have-code-of-conduct-to-prevent-future-assault-a6798186.html



Some fine examples of Integration,assimilation and adoption of western norms there alright,but given Mayor Reker's background,hardly unsurprising ?

It's certainly constructive to draw out the connections,by times hidden or unadmitted,which link quite a few of the migrant "Industry" promoters,a feature which may already be at play in Ireland.

Equally noteworthy,is the haste with which the UK has pulled back from it's initial "Save the Calais Children" stance,after the all too obvious coach & four which the same "children" drove through it.

No wonder some MP's find it crazy....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/child-refugees-syrian-debate-sentimental-pauline-latham-debate-a7596151.html



I wonder how long it will take for the Irish Government to abandon the need to scoop up the Calais "children",whom are now even keener to gain admission to the UK....and for whom a new set of saviours has materialized in the Fitgerald/Zappone/Coveney troupe.

At this juncture,the warning bells and sirens are deafening in their intensity,but the willingness to recognise reality appears sadly absent amongst the Political sector.

Even the ever popular South Africans are now having to revert to the old Boer SAPF days in order to control rioting in the townships,on the topic of .....Immigration !!...Gosh there's a surprise.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/pretoria-violence-erupts-anti-migrant-protest-170224150723949.html

The photo of a White Police Officer carrying a Pump-Action riot gun underlines the reality that Human Nature,rather than political theory will always triumph.



Ireland still has an opportunity to avoid all of this stuff.

The first and most prudent step would be to follow the U.K. Government's lead and immediately draw a line under the Calais Children scam.

Ireland cannot afford Social Experiments on this scale,unless George Soros,Peter Sutherland and their ilk stump up the Cash directly themselves.

€640,000,000 in Overseas Aid is fully meeting our committments...not a cent more should be spent on vanity projects for Industry connected Politicians.

dudara

Moving to the Help Desk as this is to do with specific moderation.

Kivaro, have you attempted to contact the Politics Cafe mods to ask why the infraction was given?

Little CuChulainn

I didn't card that particular post but my first guess would be that it's yet another poster that felt the need to comment on moderation.

Kivaro

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum.
Will contact Mod now. Thanks.

dudara

Kivaro wrote: »

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum.
Will contact Mod now. Thanks.

Thanks. Feel free to contact a CMod or come back here if you still want to discuss further after contacting the mod.

Kivaro

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I didn't card that particular post but my first guess would be that it's yet another poster that felt the need to comment on moderation.

I believe that the post was incorrectly read by you and the mod who issued the infraction, and that is the issue that I'm having with the thread e.g. impulsive infractions, banning, and not reading the proofs of a claim before taking action. Proof is demanded by mods and when provided, it is mis-read or acted on inappropriately.With Alex's post that I quoted, he said that if the Mayor of Cologne posted her misogynistic comments on boards, then she would have been banned (and rightly so). And when I initially posted (a long time ago) how appalling her comments were, Alex just mentioned that the mods at the time did not see anything wrong with my comment, which is why the mods did not challenge my comment.

He was responding to a poster who for some odd reason decided to bring up my comment as an example of the lack of constructive conversation that I was recommending in the thread. Alex was in no way challenging anything that a mod did. If there is any doubt, take a look at previous posts by Alex.

AlekSmart

Apologies for my late arrival here,as I decided not to personally challenge the mods decision.

The actual infraction imposed by For Reals is...

Dear AlekSmart,

You have been infracted for ignoring a moderator's instructions.


Discussion can become heated, we don't object to that, but when a moderator issues a warning on a thread to reign things in, it stops a heated discussion from turning into a mess.

I genuinely find it difficult to where I can "rein things in" in relation to the post-in-question,as I simply refer to the existence of Moderation,rather than the Rights & Wrongs of such moderation.

To participate effictively in any debate,discussion or arguement,one must first devolve some enjoyment from the process,something,which over the years, the Boards.ie structure as allowed me,personally,to achieve.

I have had many fulfilling disagreements,and even the occasional swipe of a Moderators glantéoir,but never on the frequency and scale of what is now,apparently,the norm across some threads.

At the and of the day,Boards.ie is not mine to play with,I can only do my best to abide within it's rules and strictures,however,as can be witnessed here,these are becoming ever more focused in their application and severity,something which I can only reasonably attempt to comply with.

Again,my apologies if this is the wrong thread for my opinions.

For Reals

I've not been PM'd on this, but I'm happy to discuss it.
We have had a terrible time with the EU Immigration thread. We have closed and re-opened it and have posted numerous warnings in-thread.

The main issue is, while many want to discuss immigration policy, refugees versus economic immigrants, how it will effect the economy, what politicians are doing, not doing, we get many basically posting anti-muslim rhetoric and posting crime reports/stats, sometimes legit, sometimes some unverified lad on youtube with a home edit.
In my personal opinion, I've no problem with people liking or disliking any particular religion.
There is a problem when posters blithely generalise about people, we see some try circumvent our in-thread warnings by moving from Muslims, to Islamist's, to people from the middle east. There are initially minor claims turned into casually accepted fact.
For example, we see chatter about the refugees from Calais going from reported as not all being children, to it being referred to as 100% fact all Calais refugees are adults pretending to be children.

I wonder how long it will take for the Irish Government to abandon the need to scoop up the Calais "children",whom are now even keener to gain admission to the UK....and for whom a new set of saviours has materialized in the Fitgerald/Zappone/Coveney troupe.

Ireland still has an opportunity to avoid all of this stuff.

The first and most prudent step would be to follow the U.K. Government's lead and immediately draw a line under the Calais Children scam.

So taking all of the above into account, we have a thread regarding EU immigration, in a political forum, which we are trying to keep on the topic of immigration policy, it's effect on the economy and where politicians stand etc. And we keep getting derailed, which if anything is in the least tiresome and sends any debate down the same road, namely, 'Muslims are bad and here's why'.

So we're trying to keep it country; keep it on a political note.

This particular post reads to me, (happy to be proved wrong and recant the card) that allowing refugees from Syria/middle east into Ireland will result in a criminal/rioting catastrophe as a foregone conclusion, a discussion on what will we do about this middle east problem before it's too late? More of a conclusion after a discussion on EU immigration has finished. It bypasses the EU immigration debate IMO and most certainly goes against the numerous in-thread warnings.

AlekSmart

For Reals wrote: »

I've not been PM'd on this, but I'm happy to discuss it.
We have had a terrible time with the EU Immigration thread. We have closed and re-opened it and have posted numerous warnings in-thread.

The main issue is, while many want to discuss immigration policy, refugees versus economic immigrants, how it will effect the economy, what politicians are doing, not doing, we get many basically posting anti-muslim rhetoric and posting crime reports/stats, sometimes legit, sometimes some unverified lad on youtube with a home edit.
In my personal opinion, I've no problem with people liking or disliking any particular religion.
There is a problem when posters blithely generalise about people, we see some try circumvent our in-thread warnings by moving from Muslims, to Islamist's, to people from the middle east. There are initially minor claims turned into casually accepted fact.
For example, we see chatter about the refugees from Calais going from reported as not all being children, to it being referred to as 100% fact all Calais refugees are adults pretending to be children.





So taking all of the above into account, we have a thread regarding EU immigration, in a political forum, which we are trying to keep on the topic of immigration policy, it's effect on the economy and where politicians stand etc. And we keep getting derailed, which if anything is in the least tiresome and sends any debate down the same road, namely, 'Muslims are bad and here's why'.

So we're trying to keep it country; keep it on a political note.

This particular post reads to me, (happy to be proved wrong and recant the card) that allowing refugees from Syria/middle east into Ireland will result in a criminal/rioting catastrophe as a foregone conclusion, a discussion on what will we do about this middle east problem before it's too late? More of a conclusion after a discussion on EU immigration has finished. It bypasses the EU immigration debate IMO and most certainly goes against the numerous in-thread warnings.

Apologies if this is the incorrect forum to respond in.

I now have another ban (2 days) for ignoring a mod instruction.

Nowhere do I state in any of my posts what For Reals ascribes to me.

I do strongly believe that abandoning a Refugee/Asylum system which has fuctioned efficiently for this State,the success of which was entirely due,to the reasonable and realistic numbers being admitted to it is a serious error of Judgement...POLITICAL Judgement.

My position remains,that allowing in the increased numbers of poorly or non-vetted migrants,will significantly increase the RISK of Criminal/Rioting catastrophe in the host State.

This is surely the case which is being shown across much of Europe on a day to day basis,both in General,and specific areas such as Religious inspired attitudes towards Women,LBGT's and the Education of Children.

There is absolutely NO justification for anybody to assume that ALL Migrants,Muslims,Africans,Asians or non Irish will become rioters and/or Criminals.

There is,however,justification for a cautious and reasonable policy of thorough and targeted vetting to be carried out on a significantly reduced number of applicants from the effected States,the vast majority of which share little of our national culture/background.

This,to me,is NOT a conclusion,nor does it bypass the Immigration Debate,I believe it is the very essence of that debate,which if it cannot be openly debated in fora such as Boards,leaves very few widely accessible places where it can.

Kivaro

For Reals wrote: »

I've not been PM'd on this, but I'm happy to discuss it.
We have had a terrible time with the EU Immigration thread. We have closed and re-opened it and have posted numerous warnings in-thread.

The main issue is, while many want to discuss immigration policy, refugees versus economic immigrants, how it will effect the economy, what politicians are doing, not doing, we get many basically posting anti-muslim rhetoric and posting crime reports/stats, sometimes legit, sometimes some unverified lad on youtube with a home edit.
In my personal opinion, I've no problem with people liking or disliking any particular religion.
There is a problem when posters blithely generalise about people, we see some try circumvent our in-thread warnings by moving from Muslims, to Islamist's, to people from the middle east. There are initially minor claims turned into casually accepted fact.
For example, we see chatter about the refugees from Calais going from reported as not all being children, to it being referred to as 100% fact all Calais refugees are adults pretending to be children.

So taking all of the above into account, we have a thread regarding EU immigration, in a political forum, which we are trying to keep on the topic of immigration policy, it's effect on the economy and where politicians stand etc. And we keep getting derailed, which if anything is in the least tiresome and sends any debate down the same road, namely, 'Muslims are bad and here's why'.

So we're trying to keep it country; keep it on a political note.

This particular post reads to me, (happy to be proved wrong and recant the card) that allowing refugees from Syria/middle east into Ireland will result in a criminal/rioting catastrophe as a foregone conclusion, a discussion on what will we do about this middle east problem before it's too late? More of a conclusion after a discussion on EU immigration has finished. It bypasses the EU immigration debate IMO and most certainly goes against the numerous in-thread warnings.

I PM-ed CC.
Without a doubt, this is a tough thread to manage and there were a number of posts where I thought that the mods had a lot of patience not to push the ballistic missile button.

The issue is that a majority of regular posters on the thread are not xenophobic or racist; yet the general impression given by some is the opposite. Nowhere did I see anyone saying that "100% fact all Calais refugees are adults pretending to be children". Yet, Tulsa themselves say that not only is there a certain percentage of them that are not children but there is also a significant risk of flight to the UK once they have arrived in Ireland.
Prudence would dictate then a re-examination of the initiative.

As an emigrant of over 2 decades who lived in a multicultural society for those years, I happen to think that immigration is one of the best things that has happened Ireland. I, and other posters on the thread, have advocated for the support of getting Asylum Seekers to Ireland and also helping in the economic migrant situation that has hit Europe. But this needs to be done in a way that is structured and budgeted. Otherwise there were will be chaos and resentment.

Rhetoric like this: "This particular post reads to me, (happy to be proved wrong and recant the card) that allowing refugees from Syria/middle east into Ireland will result in a criminal/rioting catastrophe as a foregone conclusion" gives a insight into some of the modding on this thread (unfortunately). We are being painted in this light in a deliberate manner and there is nothing that we can do about it.

My initial question has been answered.
Thanks Dudara for your indulgence.

For Reals

AlekSmart wrote: »

Apologies if this is the incorrect forum to respond in.

I now have another ban (2 days) for ignoring a mod instruction.

Nowhere do I state in any of my posts what For Reals ascribes to me.

..

I disagree. You have a constant anti-muslim/middle east/refugee agenda of citing crime statistics and explaining why it's a foregone conclusion we are in for mayhem. You constantly use divisive terminology regarding refugees. Please see below.

But the elephant in the gasthof,is surely what to do with c. 1,114,000 mainly military aged males

You are constantly on the same message after numerous Mod warnings.

Kivaro wrote: »

I PM-ed CC.
Without a doubt, this is a tough thread to manage and there were a number of posts where I thought that the mods had a lot of patience not to push the ballistic missile button.

The issue is that a majority of regular posters on the thread are not xenophobic or racist; yet the general impression given by some is the opposite. Nowhere did I see anyone saying that "100% fact all Calais refugees are adults pretending to be children". Yet, Tulsa themselves say that not only is there a certain percentage of them that are not children but there is also a significant risk of flight to the UK once they have arrived in Ireland.
Prudence would dictate then a re-examination of the initiative.

As an emigrant of over 2 decades who lived in a multicultural society for those years, I happen to think that immigration is one of the best things that has happened Ireland. I, and other posters on the thread, have advocated for the support of getting Asylum Seekers to Ireland and also helping in the economic migrant situation that has hit Europe. But this needs to be done in a way that is structured and budgeted. Otherwise there were will be chaos and resentment.

Rhetoric like this: "This particular post reads to me, (happy to be proved wrong and recant the card) that allowing refugees from Syria/middle east into Ireland will result in a criminal/rioting catastrophe as a foregone conclusion" gives a insight into some of the modding on this thread (unfortunately). We are being painted in this light in a deliberate manner and there is nothing that we can do about it.

My initial question has been answered.
Thanks Dudara for your indulgence.

It's pretty simple, the thread is not a discussion thread on the Muslim religion. It's supposed to be on EU immigration. Of course who is immigrating comes into it, but the thread was mostly made up of posts regarding generalisations on a specific people.
As regards my rhetoric, as quoted above; that's me trying to explain my reasoning for sanctioning that particular post.
If posters stick to charter and abide by Mod warnings, every opinion is very welcome. We do not want a thread geared towards telling us about the fore gone conclusion of the Muslim menace and discuss what can be done to stop it, rather than, what it is, a thread discussing EU immigration in a broader sense. If the thread was only regarding Australian Backpackers and why we should have a problem with them, what makes then a threat to us, why we should treat them differently, we'd have similar issues.
And if we're going to bring up, no Australian ISIS, look at some of the posts and switch in Catholics, people from northern Europe and the IRA/UVF etc. for perspective.