Legalise drugs

ForeverYoung90

I feel there is a strong argument for drug legalisation. I've been thinking lately the pros of making drugs legal.
-end of the drug war which is just a viscous cycle with no finish
-eliminate criminal gangs
-drugs are all regulated you know what you're getting
-create taxes which can be put back into the country eg.cigerettes are huge source of tax income

MrMorooka

What a novel idea, how has no one thought of this before?

JCX BXC

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

Broxi_Bear_Eire

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

Well considering how many are walking about full of prescription drugs it may surprise you

JCX BXC

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Well considering how many are walking about full of prescription drugs it may surprise you

The effects of most prescription drugs and heroin are slightly different.

Mr. Incognito

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.BnAvenXH0

Portugal has done it to great success

ScumLord

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

How would that ever be an issue? I always assume that people that come out with statements like this really, really want to try heroin and will if they get the slightest encouragement. The people who want to use drugs are already using drugs. Making them legal will just allow them to use drugs without being thrown in jail, it won't turn everyone in the country into and addict.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

JCX BXC wrote: »

The effects of most prescription drugs and heroin are slightly different.

You do realise there are people addicted to Morphine and many other drugs that are every very bit as dangerous as the illegal ones

Parachutes

Megalise Laurijauna.

RiderOnTheStorm

I don't think the government will ever legalise anything that is proven to be harmful, even if they get tax from it. And before anyone says "what about drink / fags?" Well, they are hereditary and if they didn't exist then you wouldn't get permission to manufacture them as a new enterprise.

There is a small chance that mary-j will be given green light. Cant see coke, crack, heroin, acid getting it.

nelly17

Designer Drugs off the Darknet are a real problem, I was reading today about the Coroners report on that young lad in Cork who died having taken N-Bomb - its very difficult to police that type of thing and prevent it from happening. If there were a 'safe' verified alternative I think its a no brainer really.

ScumLord

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

I don't think the government will ever legalise anything that is proven to be harmful, even if they get tax from it. And before anyone says "what about drink / fags?" Well, they are hereditary and if they didn't exist then you wouldn't get permission to manufacture them as a new enterprise.

There is a small chance that mary-j will be given green light. Cant see coke, crack, heroin, acid getting it.

Cannabis should be legalised, I think that's only a matter of time. Out of the rest I think mushrooms should go back to being legal.

I really think the government needs to take supplying heroin seriously. Maybe not full on legalisation but supplying it to addicts with the intention of dealing with their addiction. I think that would have a knock on effect of destroying criminal gangs finances. If that happened along with cannabis legalisation the criminal gangs would have lost their two big earning products. It would seriously hamper their ability to do business.

VinLieger

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.BnAvenXH0

Portugal has done it to great success

They have decriminalised drug use they have not legalised drugs its different

BrokenArrows

Yes i think everything should be legal and government supplied but every penny of profit and tax should be put into educating people on the effects of their choices and getting those people who are addicted clean.

I know plenty of well educated, stable and high income earning people who take drugs occasionally of many types. Its about education and moderation.

daheff

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

I feel there is a strong argument for drug legalisation. I've been thinking lately the pros of making drugs legal.
-end of the drug war which is just a viscous cycle with no finish

Might not...they might just fight over something else they shouldnt be selling

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

-eliminate criminal gangs

cant see how it would. no drugs does not equate to no criminal gangs (eg Mafia didn't start out as drug dealers)

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

-drugs are all regulated you know what you're getting
-create taxes which can be put back into the country eg.cigerettes are huge source of tax income

Again not necessarily. You might know what you get within a certain tolerance, but you remember the horsemeat scandal right?

Cigarettes are a huge source of income tax...but cigarettes cause a huge strain (and cost) to the health service. Its arguable that cigarettes are a revenue drain on the country.

ScumLord

daheff wrote: »

Might not...they might just fight over something else they shouldnt be selling
cant see how it would. no drugs does not equate to no criminal gangs (eg Mafia didn't start out as drug dealers)

They may well try moving into something else but the bottom line is no other crime will give them the same level of profit. They may for instance try robbing houses but no house is going to give them the profits they would get from one night of selling drugs. Then there's all the risk and effort required to rob houses, it's just not comparable at all. They simply couldn't support their activities like they did with drug profits, they wouldn't be able to legitimise their profits or afford the high cost legal aid.

Again not necessarily. You might know what you get within a certain tolerance, but you remember the horsemeat scandal right?

I think the "horse meat scandal" was actually a triumph for Irish food control. They were using that meat all over Europe and as far as I remember it was just Irish food standards that discovered the scandal.

KingBrian2

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Yes i think everything should be legal and government supplied but every penny of profit and tax should be put into educating people on the effects of their choices and getting those people who are addicted clean.

I know plenty of well educated, stable and high income earning people who take drugs occasionally of many types. Its about education and moderation.

You don't want it to fall into the wrong hands though.

daheff

ScumLord wrote: »

They may well try moving into something else but the bottom line is no other crime will give them the same level of profit. They may for instance try robbing houses but no house is going to give them the profits they would get from one night of selling drugs. Then there's all the risk and effort required to rob houses, it's just not comparable at all. They simply couldn't support their activities like they did with drug profits, they wouldn't be able to legitimise their profits or afford the high cost legal aid.

You ever read the undercover economist? he dispels the myth that all drug dealers make loads of money from selling drugs. A few a the top do, but your average footsoldier dealer makes about $8k a year (if i remember correctly).

Think about it...most dont have big flashy cars/houses/clothes/watches etc....most are sc*m living in 'working class' areas.

Most have to claim legal aid when they are up in court.

Arghus

Surprised there's never been a thread on this before....

ScumLord

daheff wrote: »

You ever read the undercover economist? he dispels the myth that all drug dealers make loads of money from selling drugs. A few a the top do, but your average footsoldier dealer makes about $8k a year (if i remember correctly).

Think about it...most dont have big flashy cars/houses/clothes/watches etc....most are sc*m living in 'working class' areas.

Most have to claim legal aid when they are up in court.

It must work differently than in Ireland, because they're making a hell of a lot more than €8k a year here. It's easy enough to make €400 a week pure profit without much more effort than answering the door. That's only on 1 ounce of cannabis, selling to no more than 10 people.

KingBrian2

ScumLord wrote: »

It must work differently than in Ireland, because they're making a hell of a lot more than €8k a year here. It's easy enough to make €400 a week pure profit without much more effort than answering the door. That's only on 1 ounce of cannabis, selling to no more than 10 people.

One possible explanation is life is easier in Dublin, Ireland whereby the cost of paying for cops, distribution costs, cost to sell the product to inaccessible areas and buying weapons would eat into their profits in Latin America. That income they get from the cocaine and heroine is reinvested into the Drug Empire this means you'd get a lot more manual workers at the bottom with very little pay and the specialists at the top are paid more apportion-ate to how the business performs on a day to day basis.

learn_more

Statistics show that in countries where drugs have been decriminalized convictions for personal drug use have decreased by 100%.

JCX BXC

ScumLord wrote: »

How would that ever be an issue? I always assume that people that come out with statements like this really, really want to try heroin and will if they get the slightest encouragement. The people who want to use drugs are already using drugs. Making them legal will just allow them to use drugs without being thrown in jail, it won't turn everyone in the country into and addict.

Ahm, so, from that you assume I'm a person who wants to try heroin.

That is by far, one of the most peculiar conculsions I've ever came across on AH.

Commotion Ocean

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

Just because it's legal, doesn't mean more people will do it. The people who do it, will do it regardless of whether it is legal or not.

JCX BXC

dfeo wrote: »

Just because it's legal, doesn't mean more people will do it. The people who do it, will do it regardless of whether it is legal or not.

The people who do it now will do it regardless, but if it's not illegal I could see more people doing it.

Commotion Ocean

Grass and mushrooms will NEVER be legal if the vintners' syndicate have anything to do with it.

Commotion Ocean

JCX BXC wrote: »

The people who do it now will do it regardless, but if it's not illegal I could see more people doing it.

So if murder became legal would we see a new Hitler gassing people all over Ireland?

JCX BXC

dfeo wrote: »

So if murder became legal would we see a new Hitler gassing people all over Ireland?

If murder became legal, then yes, you'd have a hell of a lot more murders.

Do you think the law accounts for nothing?

bitburger

Banning shrooms was pretty dumb though, i mean they grow wild so there is no humanly possible way to even fathom controlling the supply of them

PARlance

dfeo wrote: »

So if murder became legal would we see a new Hitler gassing people all over Ireland?

Not with the price of gas these days.

BalcombeSt4

JCX BXC wrote: »

The effects of most prescription drugs and heroin are slightly different.

Codeine, Hydrocodone, Hydromorphone, Oxycodone, Fentanyl, Oxymorphone, Methadone, Morphine etc...

KingBrian2

I believe in a lot of countries economics is the issue. Drugs could be made accessible to the people with the right safeguards in place, having consumer watchdogs that control the exchange of drugs and legal highs. Get that set up straight and people won't need to buy stimulants on the black market. One of the biggest markets is contraband cigarettes. We have this new big market place coming on called the Silk Road which is under the auspices of the Chinese. This could be a way of releasing safe and controlled substances to potential customers and with better policing it could serve to minimize the role criminals play in the exchanges.

Django99

I find the whole war on drugs a bit bizarre. Its almost like a false economy.

So somebody wants to take an illegal drug. They buy it from a drug dealer. The drug dealer is being chased around by police, normally special police who's only job is to catch drug dealers. If they are caught, they are put into prison. I'm. It 100% sure on this but I'm fairly sure the majority of prisoners are there for drug crimes.

There's huge money spent on trying to catch drug dealers, and then to put them into prison, and then to keep them in prison.

But none of this has stopped the original person who wanted to take drugs, from taking drugs. Once you can access the dark web, or know one person who takes drugs, it's so easy to get drugs.

Seanachai

I've been thinking about how this would actually pan out in reality, if drugs are legalised and distributed in dispensaries, unless they are cheaper to buy than those sold by dealers, won't it defeat the purpose?

Government generally doesn't do things that efficiently and the only customers may end up being people who only use drugs occasionally but would like a 'clean' product. Younger people will just continue to use the dodgy stuff sold on the street.

hatrickpatrick

Clear cut as far as I'm concerned, people should be free to do literally whatever they like to their own body, as long as they don't infringe upon anyone else's rights in the process.

Billy86

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

It would cause societal issues - we would see overdosing deaths plummet.

I was against legalisation/decriminalisation of anything beyond grass for a long while, but the results are kind of hard to argue with:

https://www.buzzworthy.com/portugal-approach-to-drugs/

JCX BXC wrote: »

The effects of most prescription drugs and heroin are slightly different.

You don't appear particularly knowledgeable when it comes to prescription drugs, I would recommend reading into the origins of the USA's current horrible opioid epidemic.

hatrickpatrick

Most recreational drugs were banned for ideological reasons and not because of health concerns - specifically, the idea that they would contribute to the "moral degradation of society" or some such bullsh!t. It was primarily about social control and imposing certain values and lifestyles on the population, not about health - much the same as bans on contraception, homosexuality, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, anything which has its roots in a desire to control how people live their lives from a moral standpoint should be entirely expunged from our statute books.

Effects

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

So because it's legal, that means everyone is going to do it?

weldoninhio

Seanachai wrote: »

I've been thinking about how this would actually pan out in reality, if drugs are legalised and distributed in dispensaries, unless they are cheaper to buy than those sold by dealers, won't it defeat the purpose?

Government generally doesn't do things that efficiently and the only customers may end up being people who only use drugs occasionally but would like a 'clean' product. Younger people will just continue to use the dodgy stuff sold on the street.

Price would be worth it to make sure you are getting the exact strain you want, knowing the buzz you'd get off it, rather than the hit and miss stuff you get on the street.

valoren

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

Grass and mushrooms will NEVER be legal if the vintners' syndicate have anything to do with it.

They'd be missing a trick by not investing in it themselves.

I can see it now.....Diageo Marijuana.

Hector Bellend

Shouldn't we also legalize prostitute fanny among consenting adults.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Fags are legal and cigarette smuggling has become a massively profitable racket for organised criminal organisations across Europe over the past few years.

If all drugs are made legal what's to stop gangs from undercutting the State's tax and continuing to supply at a cheaper price?

Ipso

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Clear cut as far as I'm concerned, people should be free to do literally whatever they like to their own body, as long as they don't infringe upon anyone else's rights in the process.

And if they mess up their own health in the process or end up being unable to function properly and get a job, what then?

ceadaoin.

Ipso wrote: »

And if they mess up their own health in the process or end up being unable to function properly and get a job, what then?

Plenty of people are already doing a fine job of ruining their health with cigarettes, alcohol and too much food. I don't think de criminalising drugs would lead to that many more addicts. The people who want to try heroin do it regardless of whether it's legal or not. Those that don't want to dont. Being legal won't change that. Just that the ones who already are addicted would be safer

professore

Effects wrote: »

So because it's legal, that means everyone is going to do it?

I'm a mid 40s guy who has never taken drugs in my life - except alcohol - and the odd fag back when I was a teenager. I don't associate with inner city dopeheads - I don't even know what they are called.

Yet I could have any drug I want in a couple of hours - far easier than I could get any prescription drug - or even alcohol, which can only be purchased at certain times of the day. So it's a nonsense to say keeping it illegal stops supply.

Ash.J.Williams

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'm sure nobody would have a problem with everyone walking around off their face on heroin, I doubt that would cause any society any issues at all!

like the Dublin city centre now?

Ash.J.Williams

Seanachai wrote: »

I've been thinking about how this would actually pan out in reality, if drugs are legalised and distributed in dispensaries, unless they are cheaper to buy than those sold by dealers, won't it defeat the purpose?

Government generally doesn't do things that efficiently and the only customers may end up being people who only use drugs occasionally but would like a 'clean' product. Younger people will just continue to use the dodgy stuff sold on the street.

I'd imagine if heroin was legalised it would have to be free, due to the nature of the beast.

Berserker

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

-end of the drug war which is just a viscous cycle with no finish

-eliminate criminal gangs

-create taxes which can be put back into the country eg.cigerettes are huge source of tax income

I'd be open to discussing legalisation in some form or another. However, I think you need to take off your rose tinted glasses. Legalisation will not end the drug war and it is comical to suggest that it will eliminate criminal gangs. If I was a senior figure in a gang here, I wouldn't be worried about legalisation at all. I know that I am going to be able to provide that product far cheaper than any legal source will. 15%-20% of the cigarettes consumed in the RoI are purchased illegally. Also, what rate would you tax them at? It'd need to be hefty rate to cover to health bill alone. Legalisation is going to result in an increase in consumption, naturally. Finally, where are you going to sell these drugs?

Samuel T. Cogley

Berserker wrote: »

I'd be open to discussing legalisation in some form or another. However, I think you need to take off your rose tinted glasses. Legalisation will not end the drug war and it is comical to suggest that it will eliminate criminal gangs. If I was a senior figure in a gang here, I wouldn't be worried about legalisation at all. I know that I am going to be able to provide that product far cheaper than any legal source will. 15%-20% of the cigarettes consumed in the RoI are purchased illegally. Also, what rate would you tax them at? It'd need to be hefty rate to cover to health bill alone. Legalisation is going to result in an increase in consumption, naturally. Finally, where are you going to sell these drugs?

It would do massive damage to gangs over a period of time. Anything with a prohibition against it always increases crime, this has been shown over and over again with, alcohol, drugs and gambling. Prostitution is a more difficult one as industrialised legal prostitution doesn't do much to reduce trafficking.

The reason there is cigarette smuggling is simply a tax issue. If taxation is moderated it cuts down on smuggling. There is no way there is even a fraction of the money in cigarette smuggling that there is in heroin supply.

Billy86

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It would do massive damage to gangs over a period of time. Anything with a prohibition against it always increases crime, this has been shown over and over again with, alcohol, drugs and gambling. Prostitution is a more difficult one as industrialised legal prostitution doesn't do much to reduce trafficking.

The reason there is cigarette smuggling is simply a tax issue. If taxation is moderated it cuts down on smuggling. There is no way there is even a fraction of the money in cigarette smuggling that there is in heroin supply.

I've a feeling that I read the cigarette black market being a lot bigger than I had expected not too long ago, but I do definitely agree with you. As a smoker I buy mine in a shop or duty free; were cigarettes made illegal I would buy them off the black market and gangs would make more money off of them.

Even if 15-20% of drugs continued to be sold illegally for example as with the cigarette example, that would mean a 80-85% drop in that revenue stream for gangs and such.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I find it interesting that most of the arguments for the legality/illegaliy seems to center around illegal selling and profit-making. That's not the reason they're illegal in the first place and should had have no bearing on any legalisation decisions.