Rent a room relief, in property less than 50% of the time

monsterdev

Hi Guys,

I have a property in Limerick that I live in with 3 tenants. I am currently availing of the rent-a-room relief up to 14k.

I recently got a job in Dublin and I will be renting a room there mon-friday.

Am I still entitled to avail of this exemption on my Limerick property ?

You should be imo. It will still be your PPR, it will be your postal address for all official documents and it will be the place people would expect to find you if they were looking for you.

Replace renting a room mon-fri with staying in a B&B and it would be very clear, renting a room to sleep in is really no different to a B&B.

Mrs OBumble

You will likely also be at home when you arr on leave, on public holidays, and if your job ever allows you to work from home. You could easily be there for 50% of the days in a year.

monsterdev

Interesting, it seems to be very reasonable. Anybody got any experience of this scenario , also curious as to what happens if requested by revenue for an audit. Proof of 50% stay required ? etc.

monsterdev

monsterdev wrote: »

Interesting, it seems to be very reasonable. Anybody got any experience of this scenario , also curious as to what happens if requested by revenue for an audit. Proof of 50% stay required ? etc.

I'm not even sure you have to prove 50% stay or not. The chances are you will be there at least 50% of the time but even if you weren't its still your PPR.

There is a big difference between renting a room to sleep in while away working and renting a second home where you and your family live.

You wont have any family ties or otherwise to where you rent the room, its no different to someone who travels all the time for work staying in various hotels and B&Bs etc.

Could be an interesting one......... I certainly wouldn't be claiming Rent Relief for Private Rented Accommodation in Dublin if I was availing of the rent-a-room relief up to 14k on my home in Limerick with 3 tenants in it


It's not simply a case of reckoning it's your PPR......

Qualifying Residence
...........
The room or rooms must be in a residential premises that is situated in the State and that is occupied by an individual as his/her sole or main residence during the particular tax year. An individual may live in more than one residence but can only avail of rent-a-room relief in respect of his/her sole or main residence. In general, an individual’s sole or main residence is that individual’s home for the greater part of the time and where friends and correspondents would expect to find him/her. The individual does not have to own the residence and it could, for example, be occupied
as rented accommodation.


If you are working in Dublin people won't expect to find you in Limerick.

monsterdev

"I certainly wouldn't be claiming Rent Relief for Private Rented Accommodation in Dublin", I'm not, I'm paying for a room in cash Monday-Friday.

Mrs OBumble

Augeo wrote: »

If you are working in Dublin people won't expect to find you in Limerick.

With the motorways we have now, rubbish.

I know a number of people who have Galway based jobs, who stay here for a few nights each week, but who live elsewhere. If anyone is looking for them, they wouldn't bother looking during the week because the person is working then. Instead they'd wait for the weekend and find them at home.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

With the motorways we have now, rubbish.

I know a number of people who have Galway based jobs, who stay here for a few nights each week, but who live elsewhere. If anyone is looking for them, they wouldn't bother looking during the week because the person is working then. Instead they'd wait for the weekend and find them at home.

It's not rubbish at all

While you are here though..........

Qualifying residence.......... "In general, an individual’s sole or main residence is that individual’s home for the greater part of the time and where friends...would expect to find him/her" ............... compare that to what I've bolded

monsterdev

What if you have no friends in Dublin

monsterdev

monsterdev wrote: »

What if you have no friends in Dublin

Would you take your chances asking revenue that when there's €14k income concerned?
It would apply equally to your Limerick friends btw, so if after a few months it's common knowledge you work in Dublin and are there Mon to Fri than Limerick folk know that you aren't in Limerick

If you are spending 2/3 nights a week in Limerick at home (house with the tenants) than there's little problem of course (or should be).

Samuel T. Cogley

It's your PPR, the room you're renting is not. It's fine to avail of RAR in your PPR.

(Holy Acronyms batman!)

Thoie

Very rough calculations - if you drive to Dublin Monday mornings, and back straight from work Friday evenings, let's say that's 52 weeks a year that you're sleeping in Dublin Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs. If we say all bank holidays fall on Mondays (they don't), and you take 4 weeks of holiday one entire week at a time (unlikely), then you're sleeping in Dublin :
38 Mondays
48 Tuesdays
48 Wednesdays
48 Thursdays.

which is 182 days out of 365, or 49.863%

On that basis I'd call Limerick my PPR, but not sure Revenue would agree

Samuel T. Cogley

Revenue take any part of the day as a 'day' for tax purposes. So if you're worried come back Friday night.

However it's not about days spent there - but whether you can verifably call it your PPR. You're up in the big smoke renting a room, that shouldn't dislodge your PPR in my view at least.

Claw Hammer

If it is the only dwelling you own and you overnight there frequently there will not be a problem. Your Dublin accommodation might be transient and everyone will expect to find you at the Limerick base. You could be a sales rep moving around staying in hotels most of the week and Limerick would be considered your main base.

athtrasna

Augeo wrote: »

Could be an interesting one......... I certainly wouldn't be claiming Rent Relief for Private Rented Accommodation in Dublin if I was availing of the rent-a-room relief up to 14k on my home in Limerick with 3 tenants in it
.

Rent relief disappeared many many years ago??

Carlos Orange

"The room or rooms must be in a residential premises that is situated in the State and
that is occupied by an individual as his/her sole or main residence during the
particular tax year. An individual may live in more than one residence but can only
avail of rent-a-room relief in respect of his/her sole or main residence. In general, an
individual’s sole or main residence is that individual’s home for the greater part of the
time and where friends and correspondents would expect to find him/her. The
individual does not have to own the residence and it could, for example, be occupied
as rented accommodation."

If you aren't in Limerick 4 nights a week I wonder if you meet "where your friends expect to find" criteria.
Easiest thing to do is ring them and ask.
I imagine it isn't too strictly enforced one way or the other but it might look weird if you are claiming rent a room and have a lease registered in your name elsewhere.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-07/07-01-32.pdf?download=true

CIARAN_BOYLE

It's better to be a licensee renting a room rather than a tennant in a property when seeking to establish that somewhere isn't your main residence. It just looks a little better imo.

Sleeper12

Keep the bills in your name. If it were me I'd keep revenue post going to the rent a room house. Also there's nothing stopping you using this address for your employer too.

izzyflusky

Ah here! They are hardly going to go around asking his friends and family where they think he is on a Wednesday afternoon.

Keep your post going to Limerick, etc and I'd say that should be more than enough.

davindub

athtrasna wrote: »

Augeo wrote: »

Could be an interesting one......... I certainly wouldn't be claiming Rent Relief for Private Rented Accommodation in Dublin if I was availing of the rent-a-room relief up to 14k on my home in Limerick with 3 tenants in it
.

Rent relief disappeared many many years ago??

Still in place if you were claiming it in 2010. Being phased out though.

James Bond Junior

What happens if you are outside the state? I hope to rent a room in my house but will be living for 9 months a year abroad. I assume I can forget about it?

Samuel T. Cogley

James Bond Junior wrote: »

What happens if you are outside the state? I hope to rent a room in my house but will be living for 9 months a year abroad. I assume I can forget about it?

No longer your PPR as you're not resident in the state. Although you'd have to look at the rules regarding if it's resident or ordinarily resident. OMG I just got a revenue law flash back... no actually knowledge just someone trying to introduce numbers to a class full of law students.

vandriver

...' I am currently availing of the rent-a-room relief up to 14k'..
Is the total rent collected including utilities under 14k?

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No longer your PPR as you're not resident in the state. Although you'd have to look at the rules regarding if it's resident or ordinarily resident. OMG I just got a revenue law flash back... no actually knowledge just someone trying to introduce numbers to a class full of law students.

It could very well still be your PPR even if you spend a large amount of time outside the country.

Samuel T. Cogley

Jamir Sour Waste wrote: »

It could very well still be your PPR even if you spend a large amount of time outside the country.

But I suspect, and I stand to be corrected, that a PPR requires legal residence.

Yourself isit

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

But I suspect, and I stand to be corrected, that a PPR requires legal residence.

Yes. That's clear. You could spend a lot of time outside the country for work but you would have to be based here.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

But I suspect, and I stand to be corrected, that a PPR requires legal residence.

Residency is a mine field of a term with different types of residency and applied in very different ways depending on the situation.

For example a student who is studying abroad full time for many years is still a resident of Ireland and does not become a resident of the county they are studying in.

Samuel T. Cogley

http://parfreymurphy.ie/residence-ordinary-residence-and-domicile/

davindub

Residence and domicile are actually just for tax status.

If you were not resident you would probably find it hard to claim a residence here is your PPR, but sometimes these definitions are left to the tax inspector to decide.....

Look if you actually live somewhere (rent/own whatever), it is your home and you stay Monday to Friday elsewhere, I doubt your PPR will change. If you buy a second house, you nominate your PPR, if you just don't live somewhere, you can't claim it as your PPR.

monsterdev

Yea I try and keep it under the threshold 14k to avoid the hassle. Happy tenants and less paperwork

monsterdev

monsterdev wrote: »

Yea I try and keep it under the threshold 14k to avoid the hassle. Happy tenants and less paperwork

Just to point out if you go over the 14k by even 1 euro you have to pay tax on everything not just the amount you go over by.

Samuel T. Cogley

Jamir Sour Waste wrote: »

Just to point out if you go over the 14k by even 1 euro you have to pay tax on everything not just the amount you go over by.

And to point out it doesn't avoid any paper work even when under the 14K - you still have to declare it.

monsterdev

monsterdev wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I have a property in Limerick that I live in with 3 tenants. I am currently availing of the rent-a-room relief up to 14k.

I recently got a job in Dublin and I will be renting a room there mon-friday.

Am I still entitled to avail of this exemption on my Limerick property ?

monsterdev wrote: »

Yea I try and keep it under the threshold 14k to avoid the hassle. Happy tenants and less paperwork

There's a whiff off this topic IMO.
How long do you own the Limerick property?