Insulation in 70's timber framed house -help!

Annini

We are looking at potentially purchasing a 70's timber.framed bungalow which has been empty for almost a year. Upon viewing instantly we felt the cold internally along with smell however we still love it. The problem is insulation. We have spoken to Seai and been told we cannot wrap it. It has aluminum double glazed windows and large sliding doors ..do we replace these first, then attic topup? And is our only option drylining? We really don't want to take down bathroom.tiles and kitchen fittings (budget will.be tight but it just feels like a nightmare. It's ber F! Any advice would be much appreciated .

BryanF

could the smell be rot in a +40 year old timber frame?
Is there block work on the outside?
Assuming the above
Insulating will mean removal of all internal plasterboard linings (of the external walls)

This will not be cheap.

And this is before you know if there are structural problems.

Annini

Thank you Bryan. We have had an engineer and there isn't any rot or structural damage it's more a smell of damp from no heating for such a long time. so the only way is skyline internally outside walls? There is brick outside yes. Not plastered, Red.

Metric Tensor

If it is a timber frame with a masonry external leaf and a cavity between the two then this is almost certainly a ventilated cavity designed to ventilate the timber in the walls.

Hence you can't use external insulation (because you will be letting cold air in behind it into the cavity) and you can't use cavity insulation (because you need to keep the cavity open to ventilate the timber).

This leaves only one option - insulation on the inside of the external walls. As BryanF said - this essentially means gutting the house. On the up side it will allow you to do a complete examination of the timber frame which should give you great comfort into the future ... or of course show any areas that might require attention.

Annini

Thank you so much. I woke this morning dreading the thought of gutting the house. We would be leaving a warm smaller home into a fridge that sounds like will soak money to do up. Can the walls be done room by room internally? Problem is fitted kitChen and tiled to ceiling walls in bathrooms. I do really like the house but as it would be hard enough to raise funds to purchase we would have all this extra expense. I'm not afraid of mess and hard work so wouldn't let that put me off and was hoping new windows and attic insulation might be adequate. (ALUMINUM double glazed presently) with minimum insulation in attic. Would new windows go in before internal wall insulation? Is Kingspan insulation the only internal way to go? Foam? And can you place these boards over what is there already? Thanks so much.

Metric Tensor

It is possible to do the walls in a piecemeal method but the result will be unsatisfactory and will never be "right." The tiling and fitted kitchen problem is one of the main ones for anyone considering dry-lining. Attic insulation always helps and when it comes to bang for buck it is very cheap when compared to the benefit you get.

The frames in those old aluminium windows are almost certainly not thermally broken and are a massive heat loss location so that would help too ... but it can only do some much.

Actually one of your most likely heat loss problems in a house of that age is draughts and lack of air-tightness ... again this is something that can be addressed if you are doing a strip back internally but it's very difficult to do anything about it without major intervention.

Have you actually seen the build-up of the walls. Is there any insulation in them?

caesarthechimp

I'd be a bit worried about a TF house built in Ireland in the 1970's, as very few people knew anything about building them back then. If any of that timber frame has rotted, there is a serious structural issue with the house.

If its a really good location, maybe consider demolition and building a new passive house instead.

I've seen some 1970's (hollow block masonry) houses totally gutted and rebuilt, with most external walls and all internal ones completely replaced, and also mostly new roof, and new concrete floors with underfloor heating, new windows.
Its a scam as far as I can see really to avoid having to comply with all the new build official requirements, avoid planning for demolition and new build, no need for mandatory renewables like solar panels, and at the end they can claim the SEAI grants as if its an old house.

Absolutely riddled with thermal bridges though, and probably no cheaper than knocking it and building a new house. With a new house, you know everything is going to be right.

cnarf

Has anybody come across retrofit instalation using expanding foam as I found in the following website
http://www.retrofoamuk.com/timber-frame-wall-insulation.php

BryanF

cnarf wrote: »

Has anybody come across retrofit instalation using expanding foam as I found in the following website
http://www.retrofoamuk.com/timber-frame-wall-insulation.php

Utter sh1t

kieran.

BryanF wrote: »

Utter sh1t

With BryanF here how will it work around Bridging, racking inserts, first fix noggins, existing conduits/wiring/pipeworks etc, there is generally lots of going on behind the scenes in a TF Kit house.

Metric Tensor

In most TF houses I know it would come shooting out the plug sockets and light switches/fixings!!! - That is if it "flows" the way they claim.

No BBA cert that I can see.

cnarf

Metric Tensor wrote: »

In most TF houses I know it would come shooting out the plug sockets and light switches/fixings!!! - That is if it "flows" the way they claim.

No BBA cert that I can see.

This one has
https://www.ecoinsulate.co.uk/rertofit/

Metric Tensor

I just had a brief look at the certs but none of them certs seem to say it can be used on top of existing fibreglass. The closest thing is the Walltite cert showing it blown into the stud void in advance of slabbing - i.e. new build rather than retrofit. Walltite has been on the market here for some time but I've never seen it used in that way.

kilcul123

Just wondering did you buy that house and take on a deep retrofit? I'm in a similar position with my house and doing some research on what our options are.