Finding Birth Record

ladygoodman

Hi All,

I recently did a college project on my family tree - I have more or less found documents for most family members (as far as great great grandparents)

However, I cannot find any records on my dads mother - I know when and how she died but I cannot find any record of her birth or death at all. I found a marriage record for 1938 - says 'full' for age.

Her parents were both on the census in 1901 and no sign of them on the 1911. She was born c. 1917 and died in 1971.

I have been using Irish genealogy and family search. I have tried different dates (give or take 5 years) I have used all surnames she had (birth/marriages) I have also searched in all counties (however I know she was born and bred in Dublin)

Any advice appreciated

pinkypinky

Her birth and death records will not be on irishgenealogy.ie (most recent birth online is 1915 and deaths go up to 1965). However, you should be able to find an index reference for her birth on FMP/Ancestry/Familysearch. Do you want to give us her name and place of birth and we can help you look?

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

Her birth and death records will not be on irishgenealogy.ie (most recent birth online is 1915 and deaths go up to 1965). However, you should be able to find an index reference for her birth on FMP/Ancestry/Familysearch. Do you want to give us her name and place of birth and we can help you look?

Her birth name was Mary Feery. First marriage was Fleming. Second marriage was Duff. She would have been born in Dublin City (north) - around Gardiner street or Mountjoy square, lived in Ballybough. There are a lot of family connections to St. Mary Pro Cathedral - not sure if that would help.

pinkypinky

Right, there's no one with that name 1917 +/-2 years.

I widened it out to 5 years either side. There's a Mary Farry born 1912 in the Rotunda - parents address is Henrietta St, mother's name Canavan.
There's one in 1914 but southside.

Also 1921 index reference:
First name(s) Mary
Last name Feary
Registration year 1921
Registered quarter/year Jul - Sep 1921
Registration district Dublin South
Volume 2
Page 606

Remember that people from the northside could be born in Holles St and their births would then be registered on the southside.

pinkypinky

Also a Mary Margaret Furey in 1918

First name(s) Mary Margaret
Last name Furey
Registration year 1918
Registered quarter/year Jul - Sep 1918
Registration district Dublin North
Volume 2
Page 369

Do you want to link to the parents on 1901?

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

Also a Mary Margaret Furey in 1918

First name(s) Mary Margaret
Last name Furey
Registration year 1918
Registered quarter/year Jul - Sep 1918
Registration district Dublin North
Volume 2
Page 369

Do you want to link to the parents on 1901?

Thanks - her mothers maiden name would have been Tully.

pinkypinky

This looks like the parents' marriage then:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10508/5827315.pdf

And the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mountjoy/Upper_Gloucester_Place/1328738/

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

This looks like the parents' marriage then:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10508/5827315.pdf

Thanks - I have this document. I'm hoping to just find her birth record but seem to be hitting a dead end.

Will continue the search - thanks again for getting back to me

pinkypinky

The reason to put those links in is in case anyone else wants to try help you.

I've had a good look on 1911 in Dublin playing wildcards and I have not seen them. Try searching for people called James who are painters though. There's a couple of options on Gloucester St but I can't make the handwriting into Feery.

mickmackey1

Here they are in 1911 -

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Gardiner_Street__Lower/24604/

pinkypinky

Doffs cap! Well done.

mickmackey1

Strangely enough there is a death of Anne Feery, 31st May 1912, wife of painter, aged 38. Address is given as 5 Waterford St. This could mean the OP has a different great-grandmother than she thought she had.

ladygoodman

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Strangely enough there is a death of Anne Feery, 31st May 1912, wife of painter, aged 38. Address is given as 5 Waterford St. This could mean the OP has a different great-grandmother than she thought she had.

Interesting - never would have thought that, but very possible!

ladygoodman

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1936/04810/4294973.pdf


I actually found Anastatia Feerys (Tully) death, died 1936 - matches up with the census (Luisa Tully being her niece)

mickmackey1

ladygoodman wrote: »

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1936/04810/4294973.pdf


I actually found Anastatia Feerys (Tully) death, died 1936 - matches up with the census (Luisa Tully being her niece)

There was no shortage of painters back then anyway! Well if you're 100% sure they were the parents of your grandmother I'm not sure what more can be done. Married in 1896, no children listed by 1911 or none on either death cert, it's a bit of a mystery.

ladygoodman

mickmackey1 wrote: »

There was no shortage of painters back then anyway! Well if you're 100% sure they were the parents of your grandmother I'm not sure what more can be done. Married in 1896, no children listed by 1911 or none on either death cert, it's a bit of a mystery.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to do really at this point! Thanks anyways

pinkypinky

DNA - find a Tully descendant and see if you match.

ladygoodman

Will look into it - My dad seems pretty adamant his grandmother was a Tully.

Is there anywhere I can access birth records offline?

pinkypinky

Have a read of our sticky: you can go to the GRO reading room and investigate those records I found further up the thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056388162

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

Have a read of our sticky: you can go to the GRO reading room and investigate those records I found further up the thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056388162

Thanks for your reply.

I have been in touch with the GRO and they cannot find a record of her - really struggling now.

Whereisgerry?

ladygoodman wrote: »

pinkypinky wrote: »

Have a read of our sticky: you can go to the GRO reading room and investigate those records I found further up the thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056388162

Thanks for your reply.

I have been in touch with the GRO and they cannot find a record of her - really struggling now.

Have you tried the local church for baptism records? I have a similar issue with my great grandfather but the church had no record of him either. I'm actually starting to wonder if he was their child at All.

pinkypinky

Just to be clear, did you eliminate the birth records I found earlier in this thread?

If so, you need to widen the search to people born in other parts of the country & as we saw with the census, transcriptions errors will abound.

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

Just to be clear, did you eliminate the birth records I found earlier in this thread?

If so, you need to widen the search to people born in other parts of the country & as we saw with the census, transcriptions errors will abound.

Yes, I have eliminated the records found earlier - don't think information adds up.

I have widened the search, there are a few feerys' around Ireland but can't seem to find a connection at all.

Doesn't make a lot of sense, her parents/grandparents/greatgrandparents on both sides were all born within the same area in Dublin and are all connected to the same church and so are her (first) husbands family and I also have a record of their marriage in said church. I can't understand why the GRO would have no record - unless her parents moved for a few years and she was born elsewhere but apparently unlikely as they were quite poor.

Hermy

You say in your opening post that you have no record of Mary Feery's death.
I assume you mean you found no civil record of her death but it may interest you to know that there is an entry for her in the 1971 will calendars at the National Archives.

ladygoodman

Hermy wrote: »

You say in your opening post that you have no record of Mary Feery's death.
I assume you mean you found no civil record of her death but it may interest you to know that there is an entry for her in the 1971 will calendars at the National Archives.

That would be interesting to see - however she wouldn't have been Mary Feery at the time of her death.

Mary Feery (Maiden name) Mary Fleming (First marriage) Mary Duff (Second marriage)



*EDIT* Thanks - Looked it up just there.

Hermy

Glad you found it.
I didn't want to post it as the other party mentioned may still be living.

ladygoodman

Whereisgerry? wrote: »

Have you tried the local church for baptism records? I have a similar issue with my great grandfather but the church had no record of him either. I'm actually starting to wonder if he was their child at All.

Yes, I was in touch with them and they just got back to me and found no record of her baptism between 1915 - 1918.

I have asked them to widen those years, so fingers crossed.

Whereisgerry?

ladygoodman wrote: »

Whereisgerry? wrote: »

Have you tried the local church for baptism records? I have a similar issue with my great grandfather but the church had no record of him either. I'm actually starting to wonder if he was their child at All.

Yes, I was in touch with them and they just got back to me and found no record of her baptism between 1915 - 1918.

I have asked them to widen those years, so fingers crossed.

Did you try St Josephs church near the Mater? That's very close to Mountjoy Square.

I found my record of my great grandfather this week after months of looking. His first name wasn't on the record & his mothers maiden name wasn't spelled correctly either. It was a relief to find him. The family have been looking for years and even hired a genealogist! I stumbled on the record almost by accident.

ladygoodman

Whereisgerry? wrote: »

Did you try St Josephs church near the Mater? That's very close to Mountjoy Square.

I found my record of my great grandfather this week after months of looking. His first name wasn't on the record & his mothers maiden name wasn't spelled correctly either. It was a relief to find him. The family have been looking for years and even hired a genealogist! I stumbled on the record almost by accident.

Thanks, will definitely look into it. I would find it strange if she was recorded in a different church as all family members seem to be associated with St Mary's pro-cathedral. I'm also now speculating if her parents are even her parents!

Great news on your find!

ladygoodman

Not sure if I am getting closer or further away.

On closer inspection, I noticed her mother Annie Tully, died in 1936 aged 54
Making her year of birth 1882.
From her marriage record she married in 1896.
Now according to these two dates, 1896 - 1882, Annie Tully would have been only 14 years of age at the time of her marriage.

She had apparently 2 children, James (1915) and Mary (1917) If that is correct, it took them 19 years to have children?

pinkypinky

That just can't be right!

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

That just can't be right!

Any thoughts?

pinkypinky

Most likely, her age is incorrect by a few years. There's no logical explanation for why a couple would be married 19 years (in that time period) without having children. There could of course be multiple miscarriages, stillborn or infant deaths but this is just speculation. Was her husband in the army? If he was away for a long stretches, this might explain.

ladygoodman

pinkypinky wrote: »

Most likely, her age is incorrect by a few years. There's no logical explanation for why a couple would be married 19 years (in that time period) without having children. There could of course be multiple miscarriages, stillborn or infant deaths but this is just speculation. Was her husband in the army? If he was away for a long stretches, this might explain.

As far as I know, he was not in the army.

Possibility of miscarriages, or still births. In 1911 census, blank spaces underneath 'total children born alive' meaning no infant deaths. Unsure about the fertility though, as far as I am aware, her first child was born in 1915 and second came along only 2 years later - doesn't seem like much of a struggle, but who knows.

googled eyes

Instances like this are exactly why we need the 1926 census released.

ladygoodman

googled eyes wrote: »

Instances like this are exactly why we need the 1926 census released.

It's a real shame. I seem to have run out of options right now.

googled eyes

ladygoodman wrote: »

It's a real shame. I seem to have run out of options right now.

I'm in a similar situation. My grand-dad said his father was born in Wicklow and even spreading the year range to five years either side of his estimated birth on his death cert I can't find any matching in Wicklow.

One in Dublin, one in Wexford but unfortunately I can't be certain of either ( the Dublin family would be nice and easy but I suspect it could be the Wexford family). Waiting on AncestryDNA to come back in the hope that someone could have a match on that family line.

If not that I'll be waiting on the 1926 census to see if my great grandfather states his county of birth

spurious

Have you allowed for a birth where he might not have been named yet, or was registered under a different first name?

googled eyes

spurious wrote: »

Have you allowed for a birth where he might not have been named yet, or was registered under a different first name?

I've tried to be as thorough as possible. Which is why I've switched from thinking it was the Dublin family to the Wexford family. Thankfully you can have many trees on Ancestry so I have possible trees with both these families created.

KildareFan

googled eyes wrote: »

I've tried to be as thorough as possible. Which is why I've switched from thinking it was the Dublin family to the Wexford family. Thankfully you can have many trees on Ancestry so I have possible trees with both these families created.

Have you check the Rathdown registration district? This district can include people born in South Dublin/North Wicklow.

tabbey

googled eyes wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation. My grand-dad said his father was born in Wicklow and even spreading the year range to five years either side of his estimated birth on his death cert I can't find any matching in Wicklow

Two points:
1. your grandfather may have been mistaken.
2. Where have you been searching, if in civil records, remember Superintendent Registrar's districts historically were based on the Unions, counties are unrelated. Rathdown, Rathdrum, Naas are the main SRDs for Co Wicklow,but do not forget Shillelagh and maybe even Carlow.

googled eyes

tabbey wrote: »

Two points:
1. your grandfather may have been mistaken.
2. Where have you been searching, if in civil records, remember Superintendent Registrar's districts historically were based on the Unions, counties are unrelated. Rathdown, Rathdrum, Naas are the main SRDs for Co Wicklow,but do not forget Shillelagh and maybe even Carlow.

Im working under the assumption now that grand-da was mistaken.

Sorry OP didn't mean to hijack your thread.