Need to move out of student accommodation - can I get my prepaid rent back

LurkingLurker · 15-02-2017 3:59pm #1

I moved in to a place last September, and signed a lease that lasts up until May. In January I paid my rent in advance up until May. But because of unforeseen personal and financial reasons I decided that I will move out at the end of this month. I contacted my landlord and they told me because I signed a lease up until May i'm not entitled my money for the rent back which covers the next 3 months. Checked out citizens information and it seems they they are legally allowed to do this.

Anyone got any advice?
Is my only option to keep the place until the lease ends?

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:00pm

No they're not.

They can claim their damages, but if this is in Dublin that'll be a month at most. Open a dispute with the RTB.

vintagecosmos · 15-02-2017 4:16pm

Student accommodation by any chance? Do you have a lease or are you a licensee? If a licensee you have almost zero rights.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:18pm

vintagecosmos wrote: »

Student accommodation by any chance? Do you have a lease or are you a licensee? If a licensee you have almost zero rights.

If they're a licensee rules of simple contract apply. In fact one could easily argue that given the nature of reasonable notice, the amount they could claim in damages would be even less.

However you would need to use the Small Claims procedure and not the RTB in that situation right enough.

15-02-2017 4:21pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If they're a licensee rules of simple contract apply. In fact one could easily argue that given the nature of reasonable notice, the amount they could claim in damages would be even less.

However you would need to use the Small Claims procedure and not the RTB in that situation right enough.

Its far from unheard of for college students who drop out not to get rent paid in advance back when renting in college accommodation so I wouldn't be so posting with such confidence in getting money back.

Without knowing the type of setup the op is in though its hard to judge.

LurkingLurker · 15-02-2017 4:22pm

Yeah student accommodation, not in Dublin though, and it's a lease i have.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:25pm

LurkingLurker wrote: »

Yeah student accommodation, not in Dublin though, and it's a lease i have.

You'll have to look very carefully at the lease, this may change things as it may be nigh on impossible for them to fill the accommodation, thus you would lose the rent as it would be legitimate damages.

Delacent · 15-02-2017 4:25pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No they're not.

They can claim their damages, but if this is in Dublin that'll be a month at most. Open a dispute with the RTB.

The OP signed a lease. You can't simply walk away from a signed contract.

Similarly the LL could not simply say, tough, i want the premises back at end of February even though you have a signed contract to end of May.

Works both ways and protects BOTH parties.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:26pm

Frida Kind Doughnut wrote: »

Its far from unheard of for college students who drop out not to get rent paid in advance back when renting in college accommodation so I wouldn't be so posting with such confidence in getting money back.

College students fair enough, but to make that assertion on licensees in general is incorrect.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:28pm

Delacent wrote: »

The OP signed a lease. You can't simply walk away from a signed contract.

Similarly the LL could not simply say, tough, i want the premises back at end of February even though you have a signed contract to end of May.

Works both ways and protects BOTH parties.

You absolutely can, there is very easy to follow and very well established legal rules regarding this. (Damages and the duty to mitigate loss) I'll not derail the thread any further but if you want to know more start a thread in legal discussion.

It's actually our law in it's purest form as equity is a relatively new invention, but I digress.

15-02-2017 4:29pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You absolutely can, there is very easy to follow and very well established legal rules regarding this. (Damages and the duty to mitigate loss) I'll not derail the thread any further but if you want to know more start a thread in legal discussion.

It's actually our law in it's purest form as equity is a relatively new invention, but I digress.

In reality tenants should be bound by their lease and should be responsible for the rent to the end of the lease should they leave. In most other contracts both parties are bound but not when it comes to leases its only the LL and tenants can do as they please it appears.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:32pm

Frida Kind Doughnut wrote: »

In reality tenants should be bound by their lease and should be responsible for the rent to the end of the lease should they leave. In most other contracts both parties are bound but not when it comes to leases its only the LL and tenants can do as they please it appears.

Okay very last post I promise.

No they're not - contract is a very interesting area both legally and in terms of the underpinning philosophy. As I say you can get a great discussion on this in LD if you want to know more.

15-02-2017 4:33pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Okay very last post I promise.

No they're not - contract is a very interesting area both legally and in terms of the underpinning philosophy. As I say you can get a great discussion on this in LD if you want to know more.

They aren't I know but they should be is the point I was making.

Anyway on topic, if its student accommodation I can see it being very difficult to get the money back as they probably have it in the contract somewhere that money upfront if forfeit. Also student accommodation may not be considered a tenancy even if there is a lease.

Marcusm · 15-02-2017 4:34pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You absolutely can, there is very easy to follow and very well established legal rules regarding this. (Damages and the duty to mitigate loss) I'll not derail the thread any further but if you want to know more start a thread in legal discussion.

It's actually our law in it's purest form as equity is a relatively new invention, but I digress.

It's quite common with formal student accommodation arrangements for it to be a license rather than a lease as the college/accommodation provider retains the right to move you between units. Equally, because of the nature of the accommodation, ie restricted ability to relet, it is not uncommon to include a contractual entitlement to retain rent paid in advance. Whether this eliminates or simply informs the interpretation of the common law duty to mitigate your loss I do not know but it is not so easy to mitigate in circumstances such as this.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:38pm

Marcusm wrote: »

It's quite common with formal student accommodation arrangements for it to be a license rather than a lease as the college/accommodation provider retains the right to move you between units. Equally, because of the nature of the accommodation, ie restricted ability to relet, it is not uncommon to include a contractual entitlement to retain rent paid in advance. Whether this eliminates or simply informs the interpretation of the common law duty to mitigate your loss I do not know but it is not so easy to mitigate in circumstances such as this.

Okay, very last post :pac:

Yes absolutely - I completely agree. I can't see how student accom would mitigate their loss, especially when their policies probably prohibit taking all and sundry for the benefit and safety of the students.

I should have been less hasty in posting general terms when it was a specific situation.

LurkingLurker · 15-02-2017 4:50pm

So taking it up with the RTB would be pointless?

So the only thing i can do is hold onto the place to the lease ends?
I'd still get my deposit back that way, but be down 3 months rent.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 4:52pm

LurkingLurker wrote: »

So taking it up with the RTB would be pointless?

So the only thing i can do is hold onto the place to the lease ends?
I'd still get my deposit back that way, but be down 3 months rent.

Okay no more promises on last post, as clearly I can't stay away. But as it was me who suggested it. Yes totally pointless if it's student accom as I expect it's exempt.

Edit: If it's any consolation if you hadn't have paid it and left, it could have ended up with debt collectors, court and all that good stuff. So simply having not paid it probably wouldn't have help you much.

LurkingLurker · 15-02-2017 5:13pm

Oh ****, definitely wouldn't want that.
But what if you were paying rent monthly? Not that it applies to me, just curious? Would it be the same?
I always thought, that if you were leave before the lease ends you just lose your deposit?
Not that i know much about the legal side of these things.

Sparky_7 · 15-02-2017 5:17pm

LurkingLurker wrote: »

Oh ****, definitely wouldn't want that.
But what if you were paying rent monthly? Not that it applies to me, just curious? Would it be the same?
I always thought, that if you were leave before the lease ends you just lose your deposit?
Not that i know much about the legal side of these things.

Try lease it out to somebody for the few months(if your lucky enough to get someone for that short time)make a bit of money back.

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-02-2017 5:20pm

LurkingLurker wrote: »

Oh ****, definitely wouldn't want that.
But what if you were paying rent monthly? Not that it applies to me, just curious? Would it be the same?
I always thought, that if you were leave before the lease ends you just lose your deposit?
Not that i know much about the legal side of these things.

When you breach any contract the other side is entitled to the benefit of the contract. So if you lease my car from me for a year and after six months you lose you job, you'd hand the car back and say, Sorry Sam can't do it anymore.

It would be patently unfair, for me to then rent the car out again and get paid for doing so while making you pay for the same car. I'm getting paid twice. An extension of that is I can't park the car up and sit on my hole either. I have to advertise the car and when I get a suitable renter rent the car to them.

I'm then entitled to my advertising costs and the time it took me to rent the car from you, and no more.

Edit: Sorry at work so forget to apply this back for you. So generally people keep the deposit but they may be entitled to less or indeed more in a renters market.

15-02-2017 11:07pm

LurkingLurker wrote: »

So taking it up with the RTB would be pointless?

So the only thing i can do is hold onto the place to the lease ends?
I'd still get my deposit back that way, but be down 3 months rent.

Check what your contract says, it might be pointless going to the RTB but if you want to there is nothing stopping you trying.

newacc2015 · 15-02-2017 11:38pm

Frida Kind Doughnut wrote: »

Check what your contract says, it might be pointless going to the RTB but if you want to there is nothing stopping you trying.

They RTB are going to tell him you are residing in student accommodation and not covered by the RTB.

Nearly purpose built student accommodation is license agreements ( I dont know of any that are not). You can't go to the RTB about it, as it is not a tenancy agreement.

OP I would be almost 100% sure that you dont have a lease and it is a license. If you book 10 nights in a hotel and you dont like the hotel. You can't leave after the 5 th night and expect the other 5 nights returned to you.

4ensic15 · 16-02-2017 6:41am

The simple thing to do is find a replacement tenant and ask for an assignment. If that is refused you can end the lease and get the balance of the money back. It may involve an RTB claim for the money.

Henry Ford III · 16-02-2017 10:40am

If the landlord fulfills his end of the lease (provides the accommodation) he is entitled to be paid his rent.

In the circumstances he's been prepaid and is quite entitled to do nothing until the end of the lease.

OP should source a replacement tenant as has been suggested.

16-02-2017 11:20am

4ensic15 wrote: »

The simple thing to do is find a replacement tenant and ask for an assignment. If that is refused you can end the lease and get the balance of the money back. It may involve an RTB claim for the money.

Again it cannot be assumed that college accommodation runs like a normal tenancy or a tenancy at all even. They will most likely refuse a reassignment and point out that in the contract they are liable for rent to the end of the agreed term (which may not be a tenancy).

I did suggest the OP contacts the RTB but that was more to confirm what some others are saying, that student accommodation does not fall under the normal rules of the RTA. The chances are the RTB won't deal with it but he has nothing to lose by asking.

Marcusm · 16-02-2017 1:54pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

The simple thing to do is find a replacement tenant and ask for an assignment. If that is refused you can end the lease and get the balance of the money back. It may involve an RTB claim for the money.

Although the OP has not posted the terms of his agreement, it has been understood that he is renting from his college and is thus completely outwith the terms of RTA 2004, iei RTB etc has no application.

4ensic15 · 16-02-2017 8:02pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Although the OP has not posted the terms of his agreement, it has been understood that he is renting from his college and is thus completely outwith the terms of RTA 2004, iei RTB etc has no application.

The o/p claims he is a tenant. Renting from a college does not necessarily mean he is outside the RTA 2004 as amended.

Marcusm · 16-02-2017 11:18pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

The o/p claims he is a tenant. Renting from a college does not necessarily mean he is outside the RTA 2004 as amended.

When was the definition of "public authority" amended; it must have passed me by.

4ensic15 · 17-02-2017 8:01am

Marcusm wrote: »

When was the definition of "public authority" amended; it must have passed me by.

How many colleges are public authorities. This is the definition which passed you by.

“local authority” means—

(a) a county council,

(b) a city council,

(c) a town council;

Marcusm · 17-02-2017 9:26am

4ensic15 wrote: »

How many colleges are public authorities. This is the definition which passed you by.

“local authority” means—

(a) a county council,

(b) a city council,

(c) a town council;

I was quite particular in using "Public authority" which includes "local authority" but it also includes "(g) a recognised educational institution, namely, any university, technical college, regional technical college, secondary or technical college or other institution or body of persons approved of, for the purpose of providing an approved course of study, by the Minister for Education and Science, or".

It is a letting to or by a "public authority" which is outwith the ambit of Residential Tenancies Act 2094 (as amended). Certain social Tenancies have been brought within it's a bit in 2015 but I believe there has been no change to the educational institution exclusion. It may be that the OP's accommodation is not from the educational institution and thus potentially within its ambit but you'll see I posed the question much earlier as to the identity of his accommodation provider.

Need to move out of student accommodation - can I get my prepaid rent back

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