Avensis engine won't turn over

Nekarsulm

Hi all,
In a previous thread, I was chasing up a tail light problem.
Got that sorted, but in the process, ran the battery down due to having the dipped lights turned on.
Battery is marginal at the best of times. (if you left the interior light on overnight, not enough juice to start in the morning, etc.)

So put its own battery on the charger, and swopped in another fully charged one.
Now the dash lights up properly, but turning the key to the start position has no effect. No attempt to cause the starter to turn.

I have checked every fuse, but all are good.

Any ideas what could have happened?

punisher5112

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Hi all,
In a previous thread, I was chasing up a tail light problem.
Got that sorted, but in the process, ran the battery down due to having the dipped lights turned on.
Battery is marginal at the best of times.

So put its own battery on the charger, and swopped in another fully charged one.
Now the dash lights up properly, but turning the key to the start position has no effect. No attempt to cause the starter to turn.

I have checked every fuse, but all are good.

Any ideas what could have happened?

Battery may not be charged could also be to low a amp rate to power it up. Diesels need a good current at start up.

Try jumping the original and give a good spin.

Atlantic Dawn

Are you hearing a clicking noise when you try to start, if you are that would indicate the battery has not enough power to turn the engine over. If your hearing nothing it could be starter motor that's gone, possibly caused by trying to turn it over too much with the battery that had run down earlier.

Nekarsulm

Punisher, I'll try jumping it from the jeep and see what happens.
Atlantic, no clicking or anything. The only thing that happens when you turn key to the start position, is that the centre consol digital display disappears.

miketheDIYman

If its a Toyota don't forget to press clutch fully down when starting, expect you already know about this ?

Nekarsulm

miketheDIYman wrote: »

If its a Toyota don't forget to press clutch fully down when starting, expect you already know about this ?

What? Are you serious?

corglass

Nekarsulm wrote: »

miketheDIYman wrote: »

If its a Toyota don't forget to press clutch fully down when starting, expect you already know about this ?

What? Are you serious?

He is serious.

Nekarsulm

corglass wrote: »

He is serious.

OK!

Well I have it jumped to an Isuzu Trooper, so should have lots of power, still nothing when you turn the key.

Is there an immobilizer on those model Avensis? 2003 d4d.

I hope not, cause the key I got with it, while originally remote locking, does not have this function working.

miketheDIYman

Have you tried my tip ???

Nekarsulm

miketheDIYman wrote: »

Have you tried my tip ???

I have Mike, but no progress.

Nekarsulm

Is there a transponder in those Avensis keys/lock barrel?

punisher5112

Have you a second key? Lock doors and re open then try but leave for a few minutes locked.

Double check battery connection and if dead battery is back in hook up as you have and rev to around 2 to 2.5 on trooper for a couple of minutes as the cable you using may be poor ( not sure) keep eye on it as they get hot.

Turn off all lights including interior.

colm_mcm

Check your fuses.

JohnBoy26

miketheDIYman wrote: »

If its a Toyota don't forget to press clutch fully down when starting, expect you already know about this ?

You don't need to press the clutch on a 2003 avensis to start it.

JohnBoy26

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Hi all,
In a previous thread, I was chasing up a tail light problem.
Got that sorted, but in the process, ran the battery down due to having the dipped lights turned on.
Battery is marginal at the best of times. (if you left the interior light on overnight, not enough juice to start in the morning, etc.)

So put its own battery on the charger, and swopped in another fully charged one.
Now the dash lights up properly, but turning the key to the start position has no effect. No attempt to cause the starter to turn.

I have checked every fuse, but all are good.

Any ideas what could have happened?

Do the dash lights dim at all when you attempt to start it?

colm_mcm

Immobiliser wouldn't stop the starter motor from turning.

scrap_man

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Punisher, I'll try jumping it from the jeep and see what happens.
Atlantic, no clicking or anything. The only thing that happens when you turn key to the start position, is that the centre consol digital display disappears.

sounds like a bad connection on the battery,

Nekarsulm

Dash lights do not dim, but the digital display in the center (average fuel use, journey trip etc, etc) disappears when you turn the key to the START position.
Have its own battery on the charger overnight, and locked the car, so will have another go in the morning with its own battery.
Have pulled every single fuse and checked them all.

punisher5112

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Dash lights do not dim, but the digital display in the center (average fuel use, journey trip etc, etc) disappears when you turn the key to the START position.
Have its own battery on the charger overnight, and locked the car, so will have another go in the morning with its own battery.
Have pulled every single fuse and checked them all.

Battery a dud put its original back in and jump it. Also make sure to clean terminals and tighten correctly.

Put multimeter on battery should tell you.

JohnBoy26

punisher5112 wrote: »

Battery a dud put its original back in and jump it. Also make sure to clean terminals and tighten correctly.

Put multimeter on battery should tell you.

The lights would dim if the battery was at fault. I'd say it could be a starter issue tbh.

punisher5112

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The lights would dim if the battery was at fault. I'd say it could be a starter issue tbh.

How it doesn't have enough juice and he said clock back light goes.

Starter would still make a sound.

Nekarsulm

Its strange that a starter would fail without warning, was working perfectly yesterday. I'll give all connections a good clean in the morning and see what happens with its own battery back in.

JohnBoy26

punisher5112 wrote: »

How it doesn't have enough juice and he said clock back light goes.

Starter would still make a sound.

The starter motor might not make a sound if there is something wrong with it, a connection could be broken for example.

With a dud battery it would usually make some sound and the dash lights should dim some bit or if very flat the dash lights would dim until they are nearly out. The trip computer going off doesn't mean much imo if the lights on the dash remain consistently bright when attempting to start the car.

JohnBoy26

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Its strange that a starter would fail without warning, was working perfectly yesterday. I'll give all connections a good clean in the morning and see what happens with its own battery back in.

Starters can fail suddenly, or a broken wire or connection could be preventing the starter from recieving power.

punisher5112

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The starter motor might not make a sound if there is something wrong with it, a connection could be broken for example.

With a dud battery it would usually make some sound and the dash lights should dim some bit or if very flat they dash lights would dim until they are nearly out. The trip computer going off doesn't mean much imo if the lights on the dash remain consistently bright when attempting to start the car.

Its all possible but very unlucky for it to go with battery.

Like the bulb issue they had they put new bulb in which both were a dud.

I've come across plenty with symptoms like above and was just battery.

I've taken them out fully charged on external charger and nothing. Sometimes it will just fail and with it being so cold any issue with weak battery will show. If they put original back in and jump but give it a few minutes on leads before trying.

honda boi

Sounds like the starter.
I drove to Aldi awhile ago,all grand not a bother on the car.
Came back out and nothing,starter fecked!

colm_mcm

Just keep turning the key from on>start quickly.

Nekarsulm

Honda boi & Colm-mcn, if there isn't some relay that failed, it must be the starter, I suppose.
Going to try putting an extension bar to the starter and whacking it with a lump hammer.
After that, its look for someone with a laptop diagnostics.....

punisher5112

Put car in gear and rock back and forth.

Give it a good go.

If you can then push start if juice in battery.

Go from there.

JohnBoy26

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Honda boi & Colm-mcn, if there isn't some relay that failed, it must be the starter, I suppose.
Going to try putting an extension bar to the starter and whacking it with a lump hammer.
After that, its look for someone with a laptop diagnostics.....

I don't think a diagnostics test will show a starter problem. A competent mechanic should be able to diagnose the problem easily enough though if it's the starter.

jca

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Honda boi & Colm-mcn, if there isn't some relay that failed, it must be the starter, I suppose.
Going to try putting an extension bar to the starter and whacking it with a lump hammer.
After that, its look for someone with a laptop diagnostics.....

Don't hit the starter too hard a gentle tap should be enough if a brush is sticking. I'd say it's either a bad connection or your replacement battery is a dud.

Irish Steve

Does the Avensis have anything like the fusible link in the starter cable that's on the Ford Mondeo? Had one a few days ago that was making all the right noises, the solenoid was activating, but nothing, and on closer investigation, the fusible link that's part of the cable had gone open circuit, so no power to the starter for cranking.

JohnBoy26

jca wrote: »

Don't hit the starter too hard a gentle tap should be enough if a brush is sticking. I'd say it's either a bad connection or your replacement battery is a dud.

None of what the op describes points to a dud battery or a bad connection though

Nekarsulm

Well tipping the solenoid and starter made no difference, so tomorrow I'll push it down the hill and start it (hopefully!) and drive it to a garage, see what they come up with.

Tigger

put power directrly to the starter from the battery if that does something
its probably the solenoid

http://www.wikihow.com/Test-a-Starter-Solenoid

Waterson

Check the cleanliness and security of your battery cables

fancy pigeon

Toyota d4d (6A/C) starter is a common failure point, I'd be starting with the starter myself no pun intended

Nekarsulm

So, an update.
Started with a hill start this morning, so went to a local garage.
By coincidence, they had a 1.4 Corolla up on the lift. It had just got a replacement gearbox, and when the box was in, the starter had mysteriously failed, so they were fitting a new starter.

Out with their multimeter, and there was 12.4 volts at the solenoid.
Tested at the trigger wire to the solenoid, and no current coming from the ignition switch when in the "start" position.
Brought a live straight from the battery to the solenoid trigger wire, and started at once.

So either there is a fuse/relay somewhere between the ignition switch and the solenoid, or the switch itself is faulty.

Bringing it back tomorrow for them to sort it out.

Nekarsulm

The fault had been found.
It's about 6 foot tall, and has dark hair.

Embarressing really, but here goes.

When checking the tail lights, the bulbs all looked good, no broken filaments etc.
So I checked the fuses.
They were all good as well.
The only problem was, that in a small fuse block just above the Diagnostics socket, there are about 12 fuses, but 20 fuse holders.
In taking them out, looking at them, and putting them back in, whilst twisted upside down, I put the fuse for the ignition circuit back into an unused position by mistake.

Red face on me !

The only consolation is, I found the problem before bringing it back to the garage.
To have to pay some lad to confirm your an idiot would be adding insult to injury!

elperello

I know the feeling!
What I see lads doing now when going at something like that is they take a pic on the phone. Then they can then refer to the pic when putting things back in place.

jca

Nekarsulm wrote: »

The fault had been found.
It's about 6 foot tall, and has dark hair.

Embarressing really, but here goes.

When checking the tail lights, the bulbs all looked good, no broken filaments etc.
So I checked the fuses.
They were all good as well.
The only problem was, that in a small fuse block just above the Diagnostics socket, there are about 12 fuses, but 20 fuse holders.
In taking them out, looking at them, and putting them back in, whilst twisted upside down, I put the fuse for the ignition circuit back into an unused position by mistake.

Red face on me !

The only consolation is, I found the problem before bringing it back to the garage.
To have to pay some lad to confirm your an idiot would be adding insult to injury!

Well done!!