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Amendments to penalty point structure - what changes would you make?

  • 11-02-2017 01:52AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭


    Imagine you have been asked by the Gardaí and RSA, you have been given a carte blanche to abolish or ammend one penalty point offence of your choice and to introduce a new one of your choice. What would you do?

    I would amend the speeding one:
    I wold introduce a rule whereby speeding only attracts penalty points for exceeding the speed limit by 10%+10km/h for N and M roads for all other roads, the motorist has to be 10 km/h over.

    It's very easy to slip over the speed limits, especially on certain roads if you're focused on the road ahead of you rather than having your eyes on the speedometer all the time. Slipping a few 4 or 5 km/h over the limit happens to everyone, so don't pretend you never do it :)

    I'd introduce a specific penalty point offence of not keeping left when not overtaking on a M or N road. This will be an on-the-spot 3 penalty point offence, or 6 if disputed in court.

    What would you change / abolish or introduce and why?


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    First time - 0 points.

    After that sliding scale to a ban.

    I'd rather see the courts tackle the scroats with 100 previous burglary and drugs convictions before hammering (in relative terms, innocent) motorists.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Inappropriate lane usage


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,974 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Failure to wear your seatbelt would result in six penalty points and a thirty day driving ban for first offence.
    From articles I've read online and even the programme on TV the other night the amount of fatal accidents that involve people not wearing seat belts are far to high.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,751 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Id make it a penalty point offence for cars with bulbs gone or incorrect use of fog lights.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭Isambard


    kbannon wrote: »
    Inappropriate lane usage

    100 points......


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Pete67


    Aftermarket HID kit, 3 points for first offence, 6 points for second offence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭amcalester


    dfeo wrote: »
    Imagine you have been asked by the Gardaí and RSA, you have been given a carte blanche to abolish or ammend one penalty point offence of your choice and to introduce a new one of your choice. What would you do?

    I would amend the speeding one:
    I wold introduce a rule whereby speeding only attracts penalty points for exceeding the speed limit by 10%+10km/h for N and M roads for all other roads, the motorist has to be 10 km/h over.

    It's very easy to slip over the speed limits, especially on certain roads if you're focused on the road ahead of you rather than having your eyes on the speedometer all the time. Slipping a few 4 or 5 km/h over the limit happens to everyone, so don't pretend you never do it :)

    I'd introduce a specific penalty point offence of not keeping left when not overtaking on a M or N road. This will be an on-the-spot 3 penalty point offence, or 6 if disputed in court.

    What would you change / abolish or introduce and why?

    Hardly a speed limit then if you have built in tolerances, you'll just have people saying I was doing x kph +10% +11kph (which is a very confusing way to say I was speeding)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    dfeo wrote: »
    I'd introduce a specific penalty point offence of not keeping left when not overtaking on a M or N road. This will be an on-the-spot 3 penalty point offence, or 6 if disputed in court.
    kbannon wrote: »
    Inappropriate lane usage
    Isambard wrote: »
    100 points......

    This doesn't go far enough. This has always been a bugbear of mine but recently it has been frustrating me more and more. Years ago I suggested on here that the RSA make and ad to explain lane usage to people. Then the RSA made a very good ad. And nothing changed. People just don't care... So here's my drastic proposal:

    Everyone's licence should be suspended and people's driving privilages will only be restored once they have proved they understand and will abide by correct lane usage. (I'm thinking a theory test will suffice to ensure a giant backlog doesn't develop).

    Once you're back on the road, there will be mobile patrols, in tanks, who when observing anyone in an incorrect lane will immediately and permanently remove them from the road.


  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Get rid of points and back to just fines.
    irishgeo wrote: »
    Id make it a penalty point offence for cars with bulbs gone or incorrect use of fog lights.

    It would be stupidly unfair. A bulb can blow at any time and you could come on a check point just after it happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭SBPhoto


    Parking in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic, especially at night time when some leaves their lights on, have been nearly blinded a few times.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    amcalester wrote: »
    Hardly a speed limit then if you have built in tolerances, you'll just have people saying I was doing x kph +10% +11kph (which is a very confusing way to say I was speeding)

    I think in most cases, Guards will apply common sense and allow a margin of about +10% anyway. What they could implement after that is a a €40 fine for a further +5%, then €80 and 1 penalty point for another +5% and so on with the penalty points increasing but not the fine unless it's a court summons.


  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SBPhoto wrote: »
    Parking in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic, especially at night time when some leaves their lights on, have been nearly blinded a few times.

    Another very petty thing to complain about. It's often the only practical way to get a parking space.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    amcalester wrote: »
    Hardly a speed limit then if you have built in tolerances, you'll just have people saying I was doing x kph +10% +11kph (which is a very confusing way to say I was speeding)

    There will still be fines once the limit is exceeded, points should only kick in for exceeding the limit the way I said.

    Other countries have a simile system, namely DE and NL.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
    Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
    Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.


  • Posts: 8,756 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    irishgeo wrote: »
    Id make it a penalty point offence for cars with bulbs gone.

    So it's midnight, you come out of the cinema in a well lit carpark flip on the lights and drive out into the well lit city. Only time you notice a bulb is goine is when you drive onto the darker roads. You think that should be a penalty point offence?


    Or you are driving long distance, it gets dark and you flip on the lights but ony one comes on. Cops stop and give you points for this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    iamtony wrote: »
    Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
    Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
    Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.

    Hi, Gay Byrne. Welcome to the motors forum of boards.ie.


  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iamtony wrote: »
    Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
    Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
    Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.

    Speeding is a stupid term based on made up numbers that someone decided exceeding them were dangerous 40 years ago. Modern cars are very safe and comfortable at well in excess of our very low limits.

    Also pull in and allow others to pass, not everyone has time for creeping along the road. It's not your job to enforce speed limits, I despise getting stuck behind people who think they
    Who think they are in charge of enforcing the rules of the road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭iamtony


    dfeo wrote: »
    Hi, Gay Byrne. Welcome to the motors forum of boards.ie.
    :-) it would also put go safe out of business hopefully.
    Seriously though I drive Taxi and would love this. The amount of passengers who want me to speed cause they are late.


  • Posts: 8,756 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Speeding is a stupid term based on made up numbers that someone decided exceeding them were dangerous 40 years ago. Modern cars are very safe and comfortable at well in excess of our very low limits.

    Also pull in and allow other to pass, not everyone has time for creeping along the road.

    I would disagree that speed limits are too low, in many city/town roads, given pedestrians traffic but yeah motorway speed limits would be too low if people would obey lane usage.

    So yeah Lane Misuse would be much more of a point magnet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 486 ✭✭DUBACC


    Only if they review the ridiculous limits on some roads. Example is the four lane dual carriageway n11 heading into Dublin city being 60kph. Often see speed vans parked where it drops from 80 to 60 too, sneaky f**kers. Such a cash grab! Amazing when you see some small rural roads at 80 in comparison.
    iamtony wrote: »
    Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
    Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
    Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Speeding is a stupid term based on made up numbers that someone decided exceeding them were dangerous 40 years ago. Modern cars are very safe and comfortable at well in excess of our very low limits.

    Also pull in and allow others to pass, not everyone has time for creeping along the road. It's not your job to enforce speed limits, I despise getting stuck behind people who think they
    Who think they are in charge of enforcing the rules of the road.
    Its nothing to do with how capable the car is its more the reaction times of drivers and the limits even on new roads are selected for many reasons and they can include all sorts like the possibility of cyclists using the road or a footpath that kids could stray from.
    Its a lot more complicated that most people think.
    Seriously though if your in that much of a hurry you should of just left earlier.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭iamtony


    DUBACC wrote: »
    Only if they review the ridiculous limits on some roads. Example is the four lane dual carriageway n11 heading into Dublin city being 60kph. Often see speed vans parked where it drops from 80 to 60 too, sneaky f**kers. Such a cash grab! Amazing when you see some small rural roads at 80 in comparison.
    It drops to sixty probably because theres a school nearby or something.


  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iamtony wrote: »
    Its nothing to do with how capable the car is its more the reaction times of drivers and the limits even on new roads are selected for many reasons and they can include all sorts like the possibility of cyclists using the road or a footpath that kids could stray from.
    Its a lot more complicated that most people think.
    Seriously though if your in that much of a hurry you should of just left earlier.

    Leaving earlier is an inefficient use of my time.

    Have you ever seen a comparison in braking distance between an modern car and one from when speed limits and braking distances were set. It will open your eyes.

    Pedestrians and kids should stay off the road and cyclists should keep out of the way of cars.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭SBPhoto


    Another very petty thing to complain about. It's often the only practical way to get a parking space.
    I wouldn't call it petty when their lights are on as they can really blind you, very dangerous in fact. without the lights on is okay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭SBPhoto


    Leaving earlier is an inefficient use of my time.

    Have you ever seen a comparison in braking distance between an modern car and one from when speed limits and braking distances were set. It will open your eyes.

    Pedestrians and kids should stay off the road and cyclists should keep out of the way of cars.

    I am glad that not everybody thinks like you do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,041 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Gradual speeding.

    0-20% over the limit - 1 penalty point.
    20%-40% over the limit - 2 penaly points.
    40%-60% over the limit - 4 penalty points.
    60%-80% over the limit - 8 penalty points.
    over 80% over the limit - disqualification.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 344 ✭✭ikeano29


    So it's midnight, you come out of the cinema in a well lit carpark flip on the lights and drive out into the well lit city. Only time you notice a bulb is goine is when you drive onto the darker roads. You think that should be a penalty point offence?


    Or you are driving long distance, it gets dark and you flip on the lights but ony one comes on. Cops stop and give you points for this?

    Always carry a few spare bulbs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    iamtony wrote: »
    Its nothing to do with how capable the car is its more the reaction times of drivers and the limits even on new roads are selected for many reasons and they can include all sorts like the possibility of cyclists using the road or a footpath that kids could stray from.
    Its a lot more complicated that most people think.
    Seriously though if your in that much of a hurry you should of just left earlier.

    Leaving earlier is an inefficient use of my time.

    Have you ever seen a comparison in braking distance between an modern car and one from when speed limits and braking distances were set. It will open your eyes.

    Pedestrians and kids should stay off the road and cyclists should keep out of the way of cars.

    I guess you're one of those drivers who overtake cars abiding by the 50/60km limits where in force ? who overtakes on continuous white lines ? who tailgates and bullies speed limit compliant
    drivers out ur way if they're impeding your progress ? who blow their horns if car in front if you even dares to slow down on an orange traffic light or who isn't out the traps like a hare when green shows ? Yep, I've encountered your type regularly on our roads and ye seem to have some kind of immunity when it comes to getting caught for your careless/reckless driving ?
    Last week I was tailgated by an articulated lorry in an 80km speed zone and felt so unsafe with this truck right on my tail. Eventually he must have got tired of being stuck behind me ( although I was traveling just within the allowed speed limit ) and overtook me - on a continuous white line. I didn't feel safe there, and it's a regular occurrence. Why should anyone be bullied or intimidated while driving to facilitate speeding drivers ??


  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SBPhoto wrote: »
    I am glad that not everybody thinks like you do.

    It's a pity alright, understanding the physics of speed and breaking would be very helpful to those making the rules.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    CiniO wrote: »
    Gradual speeding.

    0-20% over the limit - 1 penalty point.
    20%-40% over the limit - 2 penaly points.
    40%-60% over the limit - 4 penalty points.
    60%-80% over the limit - 8 penalty points.
    over 80% over the limit - disqualification.
    I'm inclined to agree with the above - 3 penalty points for a first time offense of a minor infringement (10-15% over limit) seems harsh. And despite their supposed discretion , I've known penalty points issued for 8km over the allowed speed limit.


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