New distribution board

stoneyxox

Hi all new to this. I've just become registered with Reci. I've been asked to replace a old fusebord with fuses to a new distribution board. On inspection I found that the lighting has no earths. At the switches the back boxes are plastic. At the fittings there are no earths. On completion my client wants a cert 3. Where do I go from here. The house is two storey and has been newly done up eg painted new carpets and flooring. Everything else is up to scratch as in earth rod, Esb tails, sockets earthed etc. do I tell the client that I have to start bashing ceiling to get earths to lighting circuits or do I walk away from the job which I don't want to or should i be is giving her a notice of potential hazard.
Seems a bit crazy that she wants to upgrade her electrical system but has to break up the house to do so? Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is all new to me as been an industrial sparks last 15 years

Steve

Don't know the answer, I'd be in the same position as yourself..

Any idea how old the wiring is?

Is it brown/blue or red/black?

stoneyxox

Steve wrote: »

Don't know the answer, I'd be in the same position as yourself..

Any idea how old the wiring is?

Is it brown/blue or red/black?

Red black

Steve

That would mean it's >20 years old.. don't know if regs cover it but imo needs a full rewire.

I don't do domestic either, so wait for more opinions here.

stoneyxox

Steve wrote: »

That would mean it's >20 years old.. don't know if regs cover it but imo needs a full rewire.

I don't do domestic either, so wait for more opinions here.

I would have recommended that if I got there before the place was done up 😳

Steve

Yeah, I agree.

What if you took all the fuses out, unhook the main neutral and stick a megger on it. If it fails, then you are definitely in bother.

As I said, I don't know what the domestic regs are, I'm not RECI either.

My fear with wiring that old is once you start to move it to replace the board, the insulation cracks and if that happens you are fubar.

Tuco88

If its red and black t&e it could still be fine only an I.R test will answer that.

If it's the old rubber sheath cable it will need a rewire asap.

I asked a instructor for the testing and commising course a similar question years ago, all gave a very unsure answer at the time. Would a letter of notification signed by you and the client of the issue cover it I'm not sure.

I'm also not in the domestic sector, the where to stop questions are a dose I'd imagine... In the end it's Cost what it all boils down to.

2011

Tuco88 wrote: »

If its red and black t&e it could still be fine only an I.R test will answer that.

If it's the old rubber sheath cable it will need a rewire asap.

Exactly.
PVC cabling if installed correctly can last a very, very long time.

stoneyxox

2011 wrote: »

Exactly.
PVC cabling if installed correctly can last a very, very long time.

Yes sockets at e done in t/e and looks in good condition.all wiring looks to be in good condition. That's not the issue. The issue is the lights which is wired in singles and have no earths. Can I proceed with board if these lights are not earthed. I can't do loop test on these afterwards.

meercat

The rules aren't retrospective so you can replace the consumer unit and do your tests as required
You will have to upgrade the mains cable and also make sure the main Earth system is upgraded too. Rod,gas and bonding etc
you then issue a cert to Esbn and they will come out and connect your new tails into their meter(€180 charge directly to customer)

Take a note of anything that's not up to current regulations and mark this in your test sheets and point it out to customer

If there are any issues you are concerned about you can issue a notice of potential hazard form.

You could point out before undertaking that work that some issues may arise when the new cu is fitted i.e.
Rcd tripping
Wrong neutrals to lights etc
Immersion fault

It's better to install a new consumer unit rather than leaving the existing one in place. There's some chance that existing faults will be found and rectified and new cu will operate successfully


I know you're new to Reci but if you ask them for your inspectors number and ring him up. I've always found them cooperative and willing to explain rules and regulations. They're here to help and guide contractors and make sure everything is in order.
(Boardsies help too!!!!!)

stoneyxox

meercat wrote: »

The rules aren't retrospective so you can replace the consumer unit and do your tests as required
You will have to upgrade the mains cable and also make sure the main Earth system is upgraded too. Rod,gas and bonding etc
you then issue a cert to Esbn and they will come out and connect your new tails into their meter(€180 charge directly to customer)

Take a note of anything that's not up to current regulations and mark this in your test sheets and point it out to customer

If there are any issues you are concerned about you can issue a notice of potential hazard form.

You could point out before undertaking that work that some issues may arise when the new cu is fitted i.e.
Rcd tripping
Wrong neutrals to lights etc
Immersion fault

It's better to install a new consumer unit rather than leaving the existing one in place. There's some chance that existing faults will be found and rectified and new cu will operate successfully


I know you're new to Reci but if you ask them for your inspectors number and ring him up. I've always found them cooperative and willing to explain rules and regulations. They're here to help and guide contractors and make sure everything is in order.
(Boardsies help too!!!!!)

Thanks for that meercat much appreciated. What about board height if cabling is not long enough to reach new height requirements?

2011

stoneyxox wrote: »

Thanks for that meercat much appreciated. What about board height if cabling is not long enough to reach new height requirements?

It would be better to leave the board at the height it is than to join cables.

2011

stoneyxox wrote: »

Yes sockets at e done in t/e and looks in good condition.all wiring looks to be in good condition. That's not the issue. The issue is the lights which is wired in singles and have no earths. Can I proceed with board if these lights are not earthed. I can't do loop test on these afterwards.

If I were doing this:
At a minimum ensure than any circuit without an earth is only connected to devices that do not require an earth such as a plastic light switch or other double insulated device. Where it is not possible to make the installation 100% compliant with current regulations make it safe and highlight the noncompliance to the customer in writing (on test record sheets).

meercat

stoneyxox wrote: »

Thanks for that meercat much appreciated. What about board height if cabling is not long enough to reach new height requirements?

You are allowed replace the board without lowering it.

Tuco88

If the tails are ok does he have to replace them,As he said they are ok? Is it the c.s.a of the earth?

What's the norm with the esb do you have to be there. Or will they connect new tails in both ends?

Just an idea. If your circuits are short maybe a 3 row board will help. Use the top row for din rail terminals.

Tuco88

If the tails are ok does he have to replace them,As he said they are ok? Is it the c.s.a of the earth?

What's the norm with the esb do you have to be there. Or will they connect new tails in both ends?

Just an idea. If your circuits are short maybe a 3 row board will help. Use the top row for din rail terminals.

meercat

Tuco88 wrote: »

If the tails are ok does he have to replace them,As he said they are ok? Is it the c.s.a of the earth?

What's the norm with the esb do you have to be there. Or will they connect new tails in both ends?

Just an idea. If your circuits are short maybe a 3 row board will help. Use the top row for din rail terminals.

If it's an old dz type fuse board then I'd be surprised if tails are 16 square
The earth is unlikely to be 10 square either
Best practice would be to replace with 16square t&e.
I would normally terminate my new tails into consumer unit and the other end into neutral links(Lucy boxs)on the meter tails.do not break any Esbn seals. esbn will then connect to meter when they call out
Don't forget an over current protection device needs to be fitted in meter cabinet or make sure there's one in the board if it's beside meter as a lot of cu are being sent out with isolators only fitted