Ryanair to commence Kerry - Berlin SXF route

ongarboy

http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/ryanair-announces-direct-flights-from-kerry-to-berlin-35434784.html

Nice to see provincial airports such as Kerry acquire a route to a significant European capital such as Berlin. Kerry airport also has a German route to Frankfurt Hahn such is the popularity of the region with German visitors.

L1011

Inbound tourism driven I'd guess - Germans love that kind of slightly wild landscape - Newquay which does less traffic supports Dusseldorf and Hahn. Although it has the Rosamund Pilcher fascination too!

driver02

Is the airport out far from Berlin? Hahn is 70KM from Frankfurt I think?

robyntmorton

SXF Schonefeld is one of the main airports for Berlin. Not that far out really. About 18km

aaronm13

Train straight into the city from there. It's a hole of an airport though.

embraer170

No, SXF is close to the city and on the site of what will eventually be Berlin's only airport.

Why start this new route in winter?

Even Hahn-Kerry, with a massive catchment area on the German side (as far as NRW a little North, Switzerland far South, Luxembourg and parts France) and a very long history of flights to the Southwest of Ireland from the Frankfurt region only sustains 2 flights a week in winter. These have low-ish loads and below average fares. I am not sure what Ryanair expects from the Berlin market in winter.

Ryanair tried Kerry - Dusseldorf Weeze in summer a few years ago but that only lasted one season. Liverpool didn't last much longer either.

Still, fingers crossed.

driver02

embraer170 wrote: »

No, SXF is close to the city and on the site of what will eventually be Berlin's only airport.

Why start this new route in winter?

Even Hahn-Kerry, with a massive catchment area on the German side (as far as NRW a little North, Switzerland far South, Luxembourg and parts France) and a very long history of flights to the Southwest of Ireland from the Frankfurt region only sustains 2 flights a week in winter. These have low-ish loads and below average fares. I am not sure what Ryanair expects from the Berlin market in winter.

Ryanair tried Kerry - Dusseldorf Weeze in summer a few years ago but that only lasted one season. Liverpool didn't last much longer either.


Still, fingers crossed.

Thanks everyone

murphaph

Berlin airports have a large enough catchment area as you have to go to Hamburg or Hanover in the west and Prague in the south before you get to an airport with more than a handful of destinations. On Dublin - Berlin flights there are always plenty of Poles for example. You see the shuttle buses outside the airports taking them on to Polish destinations.

I wouldn't assume these flights are primarily aimed at German tourists at all.

gar32

Will there be any deal's here. I am always looking to get home to Ireland. With a wife and 2 kids anything cheaper then €500 for all of us would be great.

pepe the prawn

gar32 wrote: »

Will there be any deal's here. I am always looking to get home to Ireland. With a wife and 2 kids anything cheaper then €500 for all of us would be great.

That shouldn't be any problem, I'm going to Berlin via Shannon with Ryanair in a few weeks time for €128 return. Only booked it about two weeks ago.

billie1b

gar32 wrote: »

Will there be any deal's here. I am always looking to get home to Ireland. With a wife and 2 kids anything cheaper then €500 for all of us would be great.

Granted from Dublin but I flew DUB - SXF - DUB in August last year for 1 adult and 2 kids for €170 odd euro return.

Quaderno

The SNN-SXF route will be discontinued, so they have just moved the flight from SNN to KIR. Should work out trafficwise so...

embraer170

Quaderno wrote: »

The SNN-SXF route will be discontinued, so they have just moved the flight from SNN to KIR. Should work out trafficwise so...

Is the SNN news confirmed or a rumour?

highlydebased

Quaderno wrote:

The SNN-SXF route will be discontinued, so they have just moved the flight from SNN to KIR. Should work out trafficwise so...

How do you know this....

martinsvi

I read somewhere that there are around 15000 Irish living in Germany, couldn't find exact figures now, but seems about right. I think Berlin's IT/Tech scene has a lot of offer to young educated Irish who can't afford to live in the capital but have very little opportunities elsewhere in the country

munchkin_utd

martinsvi wrote: »

I read somewhere that there are around 15000 Irish living in Germany, couldn't find exact figures now, but seems about right. I think Berlin's IT/Tech scene has a lot of offer to young educated Irish who can't afford to live in the capital but have very little opportunities elsewhere in the country

theres about that amount of Irish in Germany all right, but its a big country !

Theres a concentration around the industrial areas near Cologne/ Düsseldorf and Munich as well as Berlin. There's a smattering too in Stuttgart and Hamburg but not all that many.

With 80+ million in Germany it's the locals who'll fill the planes rather than a few hundred emmigrants who will likely come from nowhere near Kerry in the first place.

embraer170

munchkin_utd wrote: »

theres about that amount of Irish in Germany all right, but its a big country !

Theres a concentration around the industrial areas near Cologne/ Düsseldorf and Munich as well as Berlin. There's a smattering too in Stuttgart and Hamburg but not all that many.

With 80+ million in Germany it's the locals who'll fill the planes rather than a few hundred emmigrants who will likely come from nowhere near Kerry in the first place.

The Kerry-Hahn flight has lots of Irish. It varies by season but I would put it at 40% German tourists, 40% Irish living in Germany, 10-15% other tourists (Swiss, French, Belgians) with the remainder Irish holidaying in Germany (very few).

I would say the Berlin route needs to attract some Irish outbound traffic to survive in the long run. SXF can serve as a decent connecting airport (plenty of EasyJet and Ryanair routes) for those willing to risk a self connect.

BZ

embraer170 wrote: »

Is the SNN news confirmed or a rumour?

There is zero rumours around SNN about this route being discontinued and there is nothing confirmed.

martinsvi

munchkin_utd wrote: »

theres about that amount of Irish in Germany all right, but its a big country !

Theres a concentration around the industrial areas near Cologne/ Düsseldorf and Munich as well as Berlin. There's a smattering too in Stuttgart and Hamburg but not all that many.

With 80+ million in Germany it's the locals who'll fill the planes rather than a few hundred emmigrants who will likely come from nowhere near Kerry in the first place.

no need to read into my comment that categorically, I was just trying to add a little balance to the opinion that it's only going to be Germans and Poles using the route

KCAccidental

c'mon ORK-SXF!

embraer170

Still not on sale. Ryanair are in no hurry for whatever reason.

Jamie2k9

Looks like KIR has replaced SNN service....

Masala

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Looks like KIR has replaced SNN service....

Would you reckon its just for Winter 2017/18???? Could it be back for Summer 2018???

BZ

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Looks like KIR has replaced SNN service....

Have you got a source on this or just speculation?

highlydebased

BZ wrote: »

Have you got a source on this or just speculation?

SNN service off sale now

JCX BXC

Masala wrote: »

Would you reckon its just for Winter 2017/18???? Could it be back for Summer 2018???

With the days being changed to Tuesday and Saturdays, it looks like Ryanair wanted to destroy the route and cancel it. Whatever the motive may be, we won't see it back I'd say.

IngazZagni

I think simply put, Ryanair can't turn a profit on many Shannon routes. If Ryanair were cancelling it for other reasons then they would tell the world about it. The flight from Shannon to Berlin on Monday is being sold for €17. That is just completely unsustainable.

JCX BXC

IngazZagni wrote: »

I think simply put, Ryanair can't turn a profit on many Shannon routes. If Ryanair were cancelling it for other reasons then they would tell the world about it. The flight from Shannon to Berlin on Monday is being sold for €17. That is just completely unsustainable.

Few points:

1. Why is Kerry any better at all?

2. Dublin-Charleori is going for €15 on Wednesday, Bremen going for €17, Berlin is going for a still cheap €28.99

3. It's low season.

4. Try going Friday-Monday in a weeks time, it's €130 for 1 adult, hardly cheap.

5. Monday fares going cheap shows more of a somewhat poor inbound weekend market, rather than a poor outbound market.

IngazZagni

JCX BXC wrote: »

Few points:

1. Why is Kerry any better at all?

2. Dublin-Charleori is going for €15 on Wednesday, Bremen going for €17, Berlin is going for a still cheap €28.99

3. It's low season.

4. Try going Friday-Monday in a weeks time, it's €130 for 1 adult, hardly cheap.

5. Monday fares going cheap shows more of a somewhat poor inbound weekend market, rather than a poor outbound market.

Ryanair are in the business of making money. Some flights will but if overall the service is underperforming they will drop it, simple as. I find it bizarre how people have conspiracy theories against Ryanair here. If people in the southwest don't want to use the service then they will cut it.

Will Kerry do better? I wouldn't think so but maybe Ryanair know better. How long has Kerry-Hahn been operating? A long time anyway and it's still going strong.

JCX BXC

Would you care to elaborate on my conspiracy theory?

I'd also like to point out that routes are based on alot more than just how well they preform, if that was the case then I'm sure Ryanair would have a lovely big base in Gatwick and Heathrow

BZ

The route has performed strongly out of SNN and will be missed. Moving it to a Tues and Sat rotation will kill it off in the summer months to come and Ryanair can then say it's not making money and close the route.

IngazZagni

This is the conspiracy theory I'm talking about. Why would they kill off a route that is performing strongly when they are adding another 40 or so aircraft to the fleet this year?
For what it's worth, Faro is moving into the original slot for Berlin on Mondays and Fridays this summer. Perhaps they feel they can make more money this way.

JCX BXC

IngazZagni wrote: »

This is the conspiracy theory I'm talking about. Why would they kill off a route that is performing strongly when they are adding another 40 or so aircraft to the fleet this year?
For what it's worth, Faro is moving into the original slot for Berlin on Mondays and Fridays this summer. Perhaps they feel they can make more money this way.

Ryanair have done it time and time again, I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory, it's almost factual.

One very good question for you, why would Ryanair move it's strongest performing European route from Shannon (Krakow) to a TUE/SAT time slot and keep Wroclaw, a much lesser performing route on a MON/FRI time slot.

Why would Ryanair switch Nantes, a long time running and sucessful route with the rural Poititers (To which even Dublin didn't have flights to at the time) and then drop the route swiftly when it didn't preform well at all?

No efforts are made with these routes. Maybe the sweetheart deal is no longer as sweet and the new CEO isn't indulging Ryanair any longer?

IngazZagni

As I alluded to, Faro switches to a Shannon based aircraft and slots into the Monday and Friday slot. There are only 2 based aircraft. Not every flight can operate on the busiest days.
As for the French flights, Ryanair has a very small presence at both airports operating about 3 routes each, a couple being domestic or Morrocco flights. It could be more of a lack of subsidies being offered on the French side rather than the Shannon side.

I still feel Ryanair purposely making their flights unprofitable because they don't agree with Shannon management seems a bit ridiculous. They would simply just drop them.

JCX BXC

Faro was unbased until this year.

IngazZagni

JCX BXC wrote: »

Faro was unbased until this year.

Probably switched to help facilitate the 9 or so new routes from Faro this summer.

embraer170

SXF 15:00 16:35 KIR THU, SAT
KIR 17:00 20:35 SXF THU, SAT

The Hahn-Kerry winter schedule changes too:

HHN 10:25 11:35 KIR MON
HHN 17:45 18:55 KIR FRI

KIR 12:00 15:00 HHN MON
KIR 19:20 22:20 HHN FRI

737max

Looks like I won't be flying in to Kerry again then.
Service from Hahn to pretty much anywhere in Ireland has been pretty much ripped to shreds.
I'd travel via Hahn if the times and days were any way reasonable.

JCX BXC

Bookable now.

ongarboy

Launched on Oct 29th and extended into next summer driven by healthy advance bookings!

http://www.radiokerry.ie/tourism-boost-kerry-ryanair-extends-new-kerry-berlin-service-summer-2018/

JCX BXC

ongarboy wrote: »

Launched yesterday and extended into next summer driven by healthy advance bookings!

It launched 3 days ago and on the 29th.

It would be highly unusual for Ryanair to cut a route after a winter of operation.

Mr rebel

Booked my cheapest flight ever with the outbound flight from Kerry to Schönefeld for just €15....delighted with that

embraer170

embraer170 wrote: »

SXF 15:00 16:35 KIR THU, SAT
KIR 17:00 20:35 SXF THU, SAT

The Hahn-Kerry winter schedule changes too:

HHN 10:25 11:35 KIR MON
HHN 17:45 18:55 KIR FRI

KIR 12:00 15:00 HHN MON
KIR 19:20 22:20 HHN FRI

HHN-KIR-HHN has been moved back to the old schedule on Fridays for the rest of the winter schedule. It must have been having an impact on bookings.

JCX BXC

embraer170 wrote: »

HHN-KIR-HHN has been moved back to the old schedule on Fridays for the rest of the winter schedule. It must have been having an impact on bookings.

I'm not following your logic here, was the last time table on the same day better at attracting passengers?

Doltanian

Its very late to arrive into Hahn and there is a two hour coach journey to Frankfurt and Mainz after. The times are very antisocial really and you must get up very early on the Monday morning to get the coach and to allow enough time to arrive there on time.

Mr rebel

The flight to Berlin from Kerry on Thursday wasn't full by any means...lots of empty seats in the first five rows, in fact I had a whole row to myself and even the one across from me was completely empty.
I hope the route is successful as it's a joy to fly from Kerry airport.

Sikpupi

Mr rebel wrote: »

The flight to Berlin from Kerry on Thursday wasn't full by any means...lots of empty seats in the first five rows, in fact I had a whole row to myself and even the one across from me was completely empty.
I hope the route is successful as it's a joy to fly from Kerry airport.

That could still mean a load of 150++ which is an 80% Load Factor.

Am sure Ryanair wont snub that for the 2nd week in November on a startup route.

JCX BXC

Sikpupi wrote: »

That could still mean a load of 150++ which is an 80% Load Factor.

Am sure Ryanair wont snub that for the 2nd week in November on a startup route.

Well, someone's really trying to be the most optimistic they can!

While it is a start up route, Ryanair would have no problem snipping it from next winter (or perhaps March if it performs really badly).

737max

Mr rebel wrote: »

The flight to Berlin from Kerry on Thursday wasn't full by any means...lots of empty seats in the first five rows, in fact I had a whole row to myself and even the one across from me was completely empty.
I hope the route is successful as it's a joy to fly from Kerry airport.

if people were going to be travelling they'd have been travelling from 28th Oct to 1st November which was a very long weekend in Germany(with bridging day). That weekend was enough to destroy load on planes out of Germany for the rest of November.

Sikpupi

JCX BXC wrote: »

Well, someone's really trying to be the most optimistic they can!

While it is a start up route, Ryanair would have no problem snipping it from next winter (or perhaps March if it performs really badly).

Agreed.... but you can say that about any Ryanair route. If the numbers don't book then no one can blame them for pulling. So it's a case of waiti & see.

embraer170

Winter was really not the best time to launch the route.

Kerry airport are doing quite a bit to promote the route: a roadshow to the travel agencies in Kerry to advertise Berlin as a destination, attempts to sell the route at travel events in Germany, some social media work... I am not convinced it will be enough.

Not that it changes anything but Ryanair's new COO was Kerry airport general manager in the 1990s.