Recommendations required

IrishZeus

Hi all,

As per other valuation thread, we are looking to move away from the Insignia to a large, spacious family car. Space, fuel efficiency and yes, “chape tax” are priorities for this. Fortunately and unfortunately over the past year with family changes, a car has become a necessary tool rather than a luxury I can afford, so I am looking to buy my first ever “sensible” car.

Currently we are paying €1320/year tax and MPG stands at 25MPG or 11.4l/100km. Being a 9 year old car we have experienced increased maintenance costs already and will probably soon be looking at increases in NCT and insurance costs due to being 10 years old. Hence, we need to change.

As above, important for us is:

• Space – Large boot and rear seat space to accommodate car seats. (We only need 5 seats – no requirement for a 7 seater!)
• Efficiency – Diesel or Hybrid is an option. Current commute is 50km/day and we do about 25,000km/year over all, which includes long trips at least once per month. (Commute = 12900km, trips = 13000km)
• Toys – Wishlist would include Leather, Sat Nav, Xenons and Bluetooth and auto-dimming mirror. I can live without the Sat Nav as my phone will do the trick and could live with halogens as would be happy to upgrade the bulbs myself. Obviously though, coming from an Elite spec Insignia with every available toy, I would like as high a spec as possible in the new car.
• Gearbox – I could live with a manual if I found the right car, but would much prefer an automatic.

Cars we are considering to date:

• Nissan X-Trail SVE – PRO: Large enough, like the height. Spacious boot. Decent specs available. Reasonably fuel efficient. Decent resale value. CON: However, almost impossible to find an automatic.
• Skoda Superb Combi Style – PRO: Would aim for the new facelifted model. Large and spacious enough. Efficient. Can be found with decent spec and should be able to find an automatic. CON – No cons as yet!
• Mitsubishi Outlander – PRO: Large and spacious enough. Reasonably efficient. Can find an automatic. 4x4 lock would be handy for longer trips to back end of Donegal in winter. CON: Very poorly specced. Poor resale value.
• Insignia Estate – PRO: Large and spacious enough but less so than the others. Reasonably efficient. Can find an automatic. Well specced. CON: I fancy a change and would like more space.

Cars we have ruled out:

• Too small – Qashqai, Sportage, Tuscon, Kadjar and others in this class
• Too expensive – X3’s Q5’s, Discoveries, Santa Fe’s, Landcruisers etc. Cannot get 141 upwards for less than 35k.
• Outlander PHEV – This was top of my list until I ran the figures. Oddly enough, although it would cover most/all of my daily commute on EV mode, when I include the longer trips it would actually be cheaper per year overall to run the diesel variant.

I’m not a brand snob by any means so all cars would be considered. Any suggestions welcome but we really do need the space and we really want to move up in the years, preferably to 2014 or above. The cheaper to run the better but (almost) anything would be cheaper at this stage!


Our budget is €25,000 max, including trade in. Anything above this is not possible as this is the max we can flex to.

Any suggestions for us?

Thanks a mill for any help,

P.


EDIT: As sensible and practical as they are, I am trying to avoid MPV/People carriers for the moment

grogi

IrishZeus wrote: »

Hi all,

As per other valuation thread, we are looking to move away from the Insignia to a large, spacious family car. Space, fuel efficiency and yes, “chape tax” are priorities for this. Fortunately and unfortunately over the past year with family changes, a car has become a necessary tool rather than a luxury I can afford, so I am looking to buy my first ever “sensible” car.

Currently we are paying €1320/year tax and MPG stands at 25MPG or 11.4l/100km. Being a 9 year old car we have experienced increased maintenance costs already and will probably soon be looking at increases in NCT and insurance costs due to being 10 years old. Hence, we need to change.

As above, important for us is:

• Space – Large boot and rear seat space to accommodate car seats. (We only need 5 seats – no requirement for a 7 seater!)
• Efficiency – Diesel or Hybrid is an option. Current commute is 50km/day and we do about 25,000km/year over all, which includes long trips at least once per month. (Commute = 12900km, trips = 13000km)
• Toys – Wishlist would include Leather, Sat Nav, Xenons and Bluetooth and auto-dimming mirror. I can live without the Sat Nav as my phone will do the trick and could live with halogens as would be happy to upgrade the bulbs myself. Obviously though, coming from an Elite spec Insignia with every available toy, I would like as high a spec as possible in the new car.
• Gearbox – I could live with a manual if I found the right car, but would much prefer an automatic.

Cars we are considering to date:

• Nissan X-Trail SVE – PRO: Large enough, like the height. Spacious boot. Decent specs available. Reasonably fuel efficient. Decent resale value. CON: However, almost impossible to find an automatic.
• Skoda Superb Combi Style – PRO: Would aim for the new facelifted model. Large and spacious enough. Efficient. Can be found with decent spec and should be able to find an automatic. CON – No cons as yet!
• Mitsubishi Outlander – PRO: Large and spacious enough. Reasonably efficient. Can find an automatic. 4x4 lock would be handy for longer trips to back end of Donegal in winter. CON: Very poorly specced. Poor resale value.
• Insignia Estate – PRO: Large and spacious enough but less so than the others. Reasonably efficient. Can find an automatic. Well specced. CON: I fancy a change and would like more space.

Cars we have ruled out:

• Too small – Qashqai, Sportage, Tuscon, Kadjar and others in this class
• Too expensive – X3’s Q5’s, Discoveries, Santa Fe’s, Landcruisers etc. Cannot get 141 upwards for less than 35k.
• Outlander PHEV – This was top of my list until I ran the figures. Oddly enough, although it would cover most/all of my daily commute on EV mode, when I include the longer trips it would actually be cheaper per year overall to run the diesel variant.

I’m not a brand snob by any means so all cars would be considered. Any suggestions welcome but we really do need the space and we really want to move up in the years, preferably to 2014 or above. The cheaper to run the better but (almost) anything would be cheaper at this stage!


Our budget is €25,000 max, including trade in. Anything above this is not possible as this is the max we can flex to.

Any suggestions for us?

Thanks a mill for any help,

P.

S-Max 2.0 Powershift Titanium...

IrishZeus

grogi wrote: »

S-Max 2.0 Powershift Titanium...

Ah, you beat me to my edit. Honestly, as sensible and as suitable as they are to our needs at the moment, I am not a fan of MPV's. I had a Ford Galaxy rental for a week just before Xmas and whilst it ticks every box, I just didn't like it... Prefer the look and feel of Estates or SUVs.

But thanks for the suggestion!

grogi

IrishZeus wrote: »

Ah, you beat me to my edit. Honestly, as sensible and as suitable as they are to our needs at the moment, I am not a fan of MPV's. I had a Ford Galaxy rental for a week just before Xmas and whilst it ticks every box, I just didn't like it... Prefer the look and feel of Estates or SUVs.

But thanks for the suggestion!

Test drive it before you strike it out. Galaxy looks similar, but the suspension is tuned in completely different fashion.

Despite its practicality, an S-Max is a fun car to drive - and if you get one in Sports Trim - it looks like a million dollar too.


And Ford brings a lot to the table - reliable and fast automatic gearbox combined very robust, reliable and powerful engine...

IrishZeus

grogi wrote: »

Test drive it before you strike it out. Galaxy looks similar, but the suspension is tuned in completely different fashion.

Despite its practicality, an S-Max is a fun car to drive - and if you get one in Sports Trim - it looks like a million dollar too.


And Ford brings a lot to the table - reliable and fast automatic gearbox combined very robust, reliable and powerful engine...

Fair enough, will give it a go and arrange a test drive.

I took a new Superb Combi Style out for a test yesterday and was blown away by it - excellent car. Will be taking an Octavia VRs Combi out today hopefully.

PCP deals are in or around the same as it would cost us to buy a 3 year old car outright, so we are considering it at this stage.

Anybody have any experience with the new Superb / Octavia RS?

Thanks,

bazz26

The facelifted Octavia is due very soon but the current one is better looking. A pending facelift model might help with the negotiations on current stock though.

They have also launched a Sportline Superb which visually will go along way to making it a bit more sporty looking than the standard model.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

The facelifted Octavia is due very soon but the current one is better looking. A pending facelift model might help with the negotiations on current stock though.

They have also launched a Sportline Superb which visually will go along way to making it a bit more sporty looking than the standard model.

It comes with stiffer/lowered suspension too (judging solely by pictures though).

IrishZeus

What is the margin they make on a new car? I'm wondering what room I have for negotiation on the price. I reckon (using real world figures for MPG, Tax and Servicing) that I will save circa €290/month by changing. PCP payments are coming in anywhere from €333/month for the Octavia RS to €390/month for the Superb Style.

Its 0% finance so for every €1000 I can knock of the financed amount, I save €27/month on payments. (I think - €1000/36 = 27)

Do they have much margin to play with on a new car sale? What would you expect to knock off?

slave1

We had an SMax and I can't fault it but changed to a Honda CRV which I believe ticks most of your boxes.

Space, due to the internal layout I get a bigger boot with the CRV, with the SMax I could just about get one set of golf clubs and a trolley into her, now I can get two sets into the CRV. Also the CRV rear seats fit three comfortably and they have a very low raise at the foot level of the centre read seat (drivetrain ?). Loads of headroom and leg room for all passengers.

Efficiency, I have a 48km commute and got 56mpg last Autumn and around 54mpg at the minute, I had a 380km work trip a few weeks back and got 57mpg (1.6L diesel). €270 road tax

Toys, personally I did not want a Sat Nav on board so discounted that model and went for the SR (high spec), it has auto-dim mirror, auto lights including auto full beam (works really well), auto wipers, headlight washers, auto cornering lights, all around parking sensors, reverse camera, heated front seats, electric lumbar front seats, selectable stop/start function, excellent bass driven sound, USB playback, multiple power points, DAB radio, eco driving mode with color coding dash readouts/change gear prompts, fast front screen demist, heated side mirrors, cruise and limit control, dual climate control, very easy one handed rear seat drop, Bluetooth, voice activated phone hook up and probably a few bits I've not listed...

Gearbox, it's manual, I prefer manual however it does exist in an automatic but I discounted it due to less fuel efficiency.

I'm very happy with it, can't think of a single downer being dead straight

slave1

Oh, never noticed your budget, I got the car above 132 including VRT with 17,000miles, 100% outside/inside condition for €22k landed and sold the SMax privately so well within your Budget, I'd say you'd get a 141 now for same money given I got mine 6 months ago.

bazz26

IrishZeus wrote: »

What is the margin they make on a new car? I'm wondering what room I have for negotiation on the price. I reckon (using real world figures for MPG, Tax and Servicing) that I will save circa €290/month by changing. PCP payments are coming in anywhere from €333/month for the Octavia RS to €390/month for the Superb Style.

Its 0% finance so for every €1000 I can knock of the financed amount, I save €27/month on payments. (I think - €1000/36 = 27)

Do they have much margin to play with on a new car sale? What would you expect to knock off?

There is always discount on a new car. Focus on the total price of the car and negotiate the discount on that front. Then look at the PCP figures based on that discounted price. Lots of people just focus on the headline grabbing 0% PCP monthly figures which can actually be massaged and based on the full price. So in reality while your paying 0% in interest, you could instead be paying it on the full retail price. It can be a case of giving it to you in one hand and taking it back with the other.

IrishZeus

bazz26 wrote: »

There is always discount on a new car. Focus on the total price of the car and negotiate the discount on that front. Then look at the PCP figures based on that discounted price. Lots of people just focus on the headline grabbing 0% PCP monthly figures which can actually be massaged and based on the full price. So in reality while your paying 0% in interest, you could instead be paying it on the full retail price. It can be a case of giving it to you in one hand and taking it back with the other.

Ya, fully understand that and used to do it myself when I worked in sales. (Different industry)

What I'm wondering is how much you can knock off the price? E.g. the Superb Style is 38950 list - what should I be able to negotiate off that? (My own car will get €4k scrappage and will add 6k in cash for a deposit of €10k overall)

bf

When you say space do you mean boot space or room for 3 kids seats in the back? 3 kid seats in the back is tough in most cars, regardless of size - so you are pretty much looking at MPVs.

If it is just space generally, it is hard to beat the Superb Combi for space & spec. RS combi always seems to hold its value well, but Skoda have made a dogs dinner of the front end of the new model. Alternatively, something different like this:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/BMW/3-Series/320D-M/3219722884765561003/

Very rare to see one of these in 4 wheel drive & looks like it has the Harmon Kardon sound system.

IrishZeus

Mostly in the boot. We have two kids so don't need massive space internally but the more the better to be honest. Either the Octavia or the Superb in Combi format would put the Insignia boot to shame.

Superb Style manual and Octavia RS (pre-facelift) manual are within our means.

slave1

Don't discount the higher off the ground S-Max or CRV, bending down to put kids into their seat or in general in putting things in the boot or taking them out is not good in the long run, you also get a superior (IMHO) driving view seated "up"

Casati

The CRV although a fine car will feel very dead coming from a 2.0T Insignia

I think if you have only two kids and dont need the extra legroom, I'd be trying for one of the last Octavia RS's around before the new model arrives- you might get one with DSG box which matched with the 184 bhp engine is a great combination. The boot in the Superb and Octavia is basically the same size.

The other car you might consider would be a new Mondeo ST line estate - in the 2.0 150bhp Powershift its very nice but might be over your budget.

The 4k scrappage on the Superb I'd say is the most you'd get - typically you'd be doing well to get 6% discount on a straight deal - however you might be better off trying to flog your own into the taxi trade - they dont have the road tax worry but it would make a great taxi. Somebody like MD Motors might take it and give you a good price on a Superb too

IrishZeus

Thanks for all the replies so far. I have been given a reasonably good deal on both a 171 Octavia RS 2.0TDI with upgrades and also on a 171 Superb Style 1.6TDI. Both are manual unfortunately but I can live with that - the amount of stop-/start driving I do has reduced quite a bit. These are top choices at the moment.

Apparently there are no new DSG RS's left in the country at the moment. 0% finance will not be available on the new face-lifted model so it is manual or nothing.

Casati wrote: »

The other car you might consider would be a new Mondeo ST line estate - in the 2.0 150bhp Powershift its very nice but might be over your budget.

Thanks, will look at this option but I think it may be outside the budget.

Casati wrote: »

The boot in the Superb and Octavia is basically the same size.

610 litres in the Octavia vs 660 in the Superb, although I think that is just up to the window line/load line. The flexibility of the estate in either model will give us far more flexibility than the Insignia. The boot is in the Insignia is very "curved" and can be hard for loading bigger items like double-buggy's etc.

bazz26

New Kia Optima is available as an estate, will come with a 7 year/150,000 km warranty. They are well speced too for the money.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

New Kia Optima is available as an estate, will come with a 7 year/150,000 km warranty. They are well speced too for the money.

But manual only - which is beyond me... They have Cee'd with nice DCT box...