Reasonable Notice

Samuel T. Cogley

Not a request for legal advice but Nox and I were having a discussion on this and I was trying to find case law but wasn't having any luck. I then stumbled across this which I though was interesting.

I know it's a stretch but one presumes they had sight of the common law position in E&W and although the Protection From Eviction Act 1977 may have come into force specifically to over ride the common law position it go me thinking in the current pro-tenant (an by extension perhaps pro-licencee) culture, what is reasonable notice?

Mr. Incognito

I have no idea what you are talking about

Commercial premises notice is in the lease.

Residential premises notice is in the lease and is over written by the Residential Tenancy Acts.

I cant see how this would arise.

I dont know what context you are asking in

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have no idea what you are talking about

Commercial premises notice is in the lease.

Residential premises notice is in the lease and is over written by the Residential Tenancy Acts.

I cant see how this would arise.

I dont know what context you are asking in

He means in the case of a licencesee living with his or her landlord on a rent a room type arrangement.

Grolschevik

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote:

rent a romantic type arrangement.

Where do I sign up for one of these?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Grolschevik wrote: »

Where do I sign up for one of these?

Edited. I hate my phone!!!

Samuel T. Cogley

Yes indeed. What is the position on reasonable notice for 'tenants' in a RAR type scenario.

I couldn't find any case law, and neither did I expect to find any directly applicable, the E&W position just struck me as interesting it's likely completely irrelevant.

athtrasna

The general wisdom on this is that reasonable is related to the periodicity of rent payment. If someone pays weekly then one week, monthly one month and so on.

Not sure it's got any legal basis but I've seen it discussed many many times and that's what keeps coming up.

Mr. Incognito

Theres no such thing as reasonable notice for licensees.

In absence of agreement you can put out without any notice

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Theres no such thing as reasonable notice for licensees.

In absence of agreement you can put out without any notice

I was under the impression that licensees were entitled to reasonable notice and that reasonable was not defined. However the only sources I can find regarding this are boards.ie threads and citizens advice (and we all know how bad that can be).

Mr. Incognito

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I was under the impression that licensees were entitled to reasonable notice and that reasonable was not defined. However the only sources I can find regarding this are boards.ie threads and citizens advice (and we all know how bad that can be).

I dont know any legislation that sets down reasonable notice for Licencees.

I suspect, even by the term "reasonable notice" that was set down by a Judge.

However, if you consider 99% of licencee arrangments in a private dwelling what is reasoable notice. You are there with the permision of the homeowner. Once that is withdrawn you have no entitlement to be there and in the absence of something to hang reasonable notice on it's pretty much out you go from that point. In practice you might be able to take a case for damages but the costs of doing so would outweigh any damages payable.

in reality you are a glorified guest who is paying for that privilege. Once the permission for a guest to stay is withdrawn, well, that's it.

Michael D Not Higgins

After some digging, I found this which applies to English law and may show the basis for the interpretation of the law here, in the absense of specific legislation.

In 1.121 it shows reasonable notice from a case Smith v Northside Developments Ltd (1988). I don't know the details of this case. 1.122 shows some examples of reasonable notice, but the most interesting is 1.123 which says:

Where a person is excluded because he or she is sharing another person’s
home, enforcing a right to ‘reasonable notice’ may be impossible:
a court will be reluctant to order someone to allow another
person to occupy his or her home for a further period of time if the
relationship has clearly broken down.

Samuel T. Cogley

Thanks I'll have a read though that, much obliged. However I'd be careful to distinguish enforceing that a LL keeps someone in their home (clearly impractical) from awarding damages.

Michael D Not Higgins

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thanks I'll have a read though that, much obliged. However I'd be careful to distinguish enforceing that a LL keeps someone in their home (clearly impractical) from awarding damages.

I get where you're coming from. Certainly I can imagine a case where someone decides willy nilly to evict their lodger on a whim. The lodger then has to leave with no notice and put themselves up in a hotel, hostel, etc. for a few nights while searching for somewhere else to stay. There's certainly scope to award damages, in my limited understanding of the law.

On the other hand, a landlord with a genuine grievance would be unlikely to have any damages awarded against them.

Samuel T. Cogley

Has anyone any idea where P&CR are reported - I found the publication using Cardiff but any idea what database it's on? It's not on my westlaw (UK).

Victor

The understanding is reasonable notice. If the tenant has just burnt out the kitchen, then reasonable notice is probably counted in minutes. Randomly kicking someone out at 4am in January during a snow storm is not reasonable.

Otherwise, it may mean a period equal to the period of the rent.