Driving school

Capri

Coming up the N11 at 6.30 am today, heavy traffic bunched up doing c.80kph, what should a Garda car do if they 'need to be somewhere'

1) Activate blues and maybe siren so people have time to see them and move out of their way

2) Come up behind other cars beeping their horn and flashing their headlights (NOT wig-wag headlights ), and when said cars don't move over for what they might consider an impatient driver, the blues finally get activated for a few seconds. This behavior was repeated after they passed me along with a distinct lack of progress

Could this be a driver who's not done the course yet ? And from another perspective it's bloody dangerous to be driving in a 'half legal' state because you either stay with the traffic or you activate the bells and whistles. I've seen quite a few drivers who'd be pissed off with someone flashing them and tip the brakes - THEN who'd get the blame ??:p

IrelandDylan

I think theres some rule regarding provisional Gardai and the cars, I dont think theyre allowed to activate the sirens until theyve 2 years done of something along them lines, so maybe it was just one of them lads.

EDIT: See here http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0426/784243-garda-representative-association/

irishrgr

I don't understand this....how can a Garda graduate Templemore with a degree in policing and then have to "take a course" to drive a patrol car???? That makes no sense at all (no offense intended at members BTW, this is a management issue). In the US police academies are generally 6-9 months and that includes firearms, (pistol & shotgun) police driving, baton, taser, the lot. I'm not suggesting the US way is better than the Irish way (we have our own policing challenges), but two years training and you can't drive a patrol car? Come on, the emergency driving course here is generally 5 days and it's not rocket science.
This exemplifies what I see as the Garda as an organization struggling with understanding policing in the 21st century. And Noreen wonders whey she gets a shellacking every time she's in front of the commission....lads & lasses, my hat's off to yous for keeping with it....

irishrgr

irishrgr wrote: »

I don't understand this....how can a Garda graduate Templemore with a degree in policing and then have to "take a course" to drive a patrol car???? That makes no sense at all (no offense intended at members BTW, this is a management issue). In the US police academies are generally 6-9 months and that includes firearms, (pistol & shotgun) police driving, baton, taser, the lot. I'm not suggesting the US way is better than the Irish way (we have our own policing challenges), but two years training and you can't drive a patrol car? Come on, the emergency driving course here is generally 5 days and it's not rocket science.
This exemplifies what I see as the Garda as an organization struggling with understanding policing in the 21st century. And Noreen wonders whey she gets a shellacking every time she's in front of the commission....lads & lasses, my hat's off to yous for keeping with it....

To just drive a Garda car with no lights/siren authorisations you have to spend a half day in the driving school and prove you are competent to drive a car correctly.
Standard driving course is three weeks long.

irishrgr

Interesting....here having a driving license (with a nice, clean record) is a condition of hiring. You don't get behind the wheel until you graduate the academy. Granted policing here is more car centric (as America is generally) but I still can't get my head around why the Gardai would accept the liability of officers in a car they have no authority to drive in an emergency.
Who decides if it's a "blues & two's" call for the Gardaí? Is it call type, officer discretion? It's left up to us individually, serious call...Code 3 (lights & sirens), routine calls Code 1 (normal driving)....not prescriptive. A pursuit is a bit different, you kick off, call it in and have to factor in traffic, nature of offense, road conditions, etc. A SGT can direct a pursuit to stop if they feel it's not safe.
We're all going through a driving refresher for the new patrol SUV's, looking forward to it....nothing like legging it on the track in someone else's car...zoom zoom!!!

irishrgr

irishrgr wrote: »

Interesting....here having a driving license (with a nice, clean record) is a condition of hiring. You don't get behind the wheel until you graduate the academy. Granted policing here is more car centric (as America is generally) but I still can't get my head around why the Gardai would accept the liability of officers in a car they have no authority to drive in an emergency.
Who decides if it's a "blues & two's" call for the Gardaí? Is it call type, officer discretion? It's left up to us individually, serious call...Code 3 (lights & sirens), routine calls Code 1 (normal driving)....not prescriptive. A pursuit is a bit different, you kick off, call it in and have to factor in traffic, nature of offense, road conditions, etc. A SGT can direct a pursuit to stop if they feel it's not safe.
We're all going through a driving refresher for the new patrol SUV's, looking forward to it....nothing like legging it on the track in someone else's car...zoom zoom!!!

Because the officers in the car have signed a document saying they won't drive the car in emergency situations, they are not even allowed to put on the blue lights or sirens while the vehicle is in motion.

Calls are graded by importance, Priority 1 and Emergency calls are usually blue light calls but it is up to the individual driver at the end of the day if they want to activate them.

Capri

Capri wrote: »

Coming up the N11 at 6.30 am today, heavy traffic bunched up doing c.80kph, what should a Garda car do if they 'need to be somewhere'

1) Activate blues and maybe siren so people have time to see them and move out of their way

2) Come up behind other cars beeping their horn and flashing their headlights (NOT wig-wag headlights ), and when said cars don't move over for what they might consider an impatient driver, the blues finally get activated for a few seconds. This behavior was repeated after they passed me along with a distinct lack of progress

Could this be a driver who's not done the course yet ? And from another perspective it's bloody dangerous to be driving in a 'half legal' state because you either stay with the traffic or you activate the bells and whistles. I've seen quite a few drivers who'd be pissed off with someone flashing them and tip the brakes - THEN who'd get the blame ??:p

Just because the guards are in a rush to get somewhere doesn't mean they have to activate lights & sirens!
Maybe they just wanted you to move out of the lane?
Nothing like lights & sirens to make every car ahead of you slam on their brakes and make ya slower!

TallGlass

I always thought it was strange that, they didn't adapt it into the new training that students are thought to drive the cars or even given some sort of basics. I suppose it would totally piss off the members waiting ten years or so for the course, but it's a step in the right direction and get the finger out.

What is it down to, is it just a lack of training staff? Can it not be outsourced to another company, who trains the DFB or other ES, can they not approve the Gardaí or do I dare say it? Head over to the UK for training.

I think its stock with new recruits to get this training in other countries, it's like that in AUS.

Are there any figures out there that show how many members are trained drivers doing the day in day out stuff?

easygoing1982

Capri wrote: »

2) Come up behind other cars beeping their horn and flashing their headlights (NOT wig-wag headlights ), and when said cars don't move over for what they might consider an impatient driver, the blues finally get activated for a few seconds. This behavior was repeated after they passed me along with a distinct lack of progress

Any chance there where trying to get behind a car without drawing attention to themselves to possibly prevent a pursuit ensuing.

Potential-Monke

As an ex-member, i'll tell you why the driving course SHOULDN'T be included in initial training. Think about it. You have a (more than likely) fairly young person joining, learning about the law and all the "powers" they're going to have. These same individuals (and i'm only talking about a select few, but they're there) are coming out, potentially jumped up on a power trip, and you're giving them the automatic right to speeds and break the rules of the road. That, to me, is not good for anyone.

In my opinion, new entrants should not be allowed to drive anything until at least 2 years of service, if not 5. That gives them a better understanding of why and when to use the blues and twos, otherwise they'll use them for everything (it is quite a thrill, i will admit that).

As for the topic, it's possible that activating the lights and siren might work against the reason for the call, ie: burglary in progress. The Gardaí would rather catch the criminals, and letting them know you're coming will make them run and hide quicker. I will say that flashing the lights and driving like an impatient civilian is not the way about it though. Without the lights and sirens, it's just another car.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

As an ex-member, i'll tell you why the driving course SHOULDN'T be included in initial training. Think about it. You have a (more than likely) fairly young person joining, learning about the law and all the "powers" they're going to have. These same individuals (and i'm only talking about a select few, but they're there) are coming out, potentially jumped up on a power trip, and you're giving them the automatic right to speeds and break the rules of the road. That, to me, is not good for anyone.

In my opinion, new entrants should not be allowed to drive anything until at least 2 years of service, if not 5. That gives them a better understanding of why and when to use the blues and twos, otherwise they'll use them for everything (it is quite a thrill, i will admit that).

First point is unfair. Plenty of long term trained drivers put lights on for stupid reasons.

I drove on blues under chiefs permission and only used them when responding to the appropriate call, I had less than five years service. In some districts members on their probation are getting CBD1 driving because of the needs of the job. Not enough members to do the job and even less with the courses done.

It's a failure of the job to plan and just get the courses done. One big problem that regularly occurs is lad waiting 5-10+ years for course, gets it and is gone within a year or two due to promotion or move to specialist units.

kub

foreign wrote: »

First point is unfair. Plenty of long term trained drivers put lights on for stupid reasons.

I drove on blues under chiefs permission and only used them when responding to the appropriate call, I had less than five years service. In some districts members on their probation are getting CBD1 driving because of the needs of the job. Not enough members to do the job and even less with the courses done.

It's a failure of the job to plan and just get the courses done. One big problem that regularly occurs is lad waiting 5-10+ years for course, gets it and is gone within a year or two due to promotion or move to specialist units.

Surely promoted officers and specialist units still have to have the necessary course done?

kub

kub wrote: »

Surely promoted officers and specialist units still have to have the necessary course done?

They do but it means the regular lose their trained driver. It doesn't happen all the time but as we are talking about lack of trained drivers it can leave units with only CBD1 drivers.