Gui affiliated clubs without open days

The Premier Man

As stated above,this is something that really grinds my gears and is something I think should be discussed..I was down in lahinch direction yesterday visiting the cliffs of moher and doing general touristy things and what not.i called into Lahinch golf club as I was passing and had a look at some of the pictures,trophys and history on the walls.in the pro shop I got the course guide (adding to my personal collection) but asked about their fixture list and in particular if they had a junior scratch cup.the girl behind the counter informed me they didn't and in fact they don't have any open competitions. She said they have 1 and some years maybe 2 invitational events and the south of Ireland and that's it...I am wondering what people's opinions are on this?I think it's a disgrace and would seriously question if members here should be allowed play at open days at other clubs?also I would also question the clubs membership of the gui as a whole?I know portmarnock have the same policy,is there any other clubs? No one is asking for many open but 3 or 4 a year,even on weekdays surely would be possible and uphold their gui membership

bustercherry

Is your faux outrage is driven by the fact you believe these open competition should be at a reduced green fee? If you don't want to pay full green fee that's your choice but GUI shouldn't be dictating pricing.

I've played all the courses you name but not in competitions. I'd like to play them in open competition for the challenge as would other people; but if you can't afford it I say tough. There are plenty of great courses in Ireland at great prices without resorting to the usual sense of entitlement.

Hoof Hearted2

bustercherry wrote: »

Is your faux outrage is driven by the fact you believe these open competition should be at a reduced green fee? If you don't want to pay full green fee that's your choice but GUI shouldn't be dictating pricing.

I've played all the courses you name but not in competitions. I'd like to play them in open competition for the challenge as would other people; but if you can't afford it I say tough. There are plenty of great courses in Ireland at great prices without resorting to the usual sense of entitlement.

+1 to this.

OP I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but this place is only a discussion forum and not a direct line to the GUI or any administrator involved with a GUI affiliated club.

If you believe you have a legitimate gripe, then go through the proper channel and bring it up on the proper forum, i.e. your GUI branch ADM.

The Premier Man

bustercherry wrote:

I've played all the courses you name but not in competitions. I'd like to play them in open competition for the challenge as would other people; but if you can't afford it I say tough. There are plenty of great courses in Ireland at great prices without resorting to the usual sense of entitlement.

bustercherry wrote:

Is your faux outrage is driven by the fact you believe these open competition should be at a reduced green fee? If you don't want to pay full green fee that's your choice but GUI shouldn't be dictating pricing.

Hold on a minute now,point out where on my post I mentioned money or pricing??I didn't I'm not one bit concerned about the cost or anything else but the opportunity to play a gui affiliated course in a competition...I can't see how there members avail of other clubs open competitions but have a closed doors policy themselves

The Premier Man

Hoof Hearted2 wrote:

If you believe you have a legitimate gripe, then go through the proper channel and bring it up on the proper forum, i.e. your GUI branch ADM.

Hoof Hearted2 wrote:

OP I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but this place is only a discussion forum and not a direct line to the GUI or any administrator involved with a GUI affiliated club.

That's grand so,we won't have a discussion on it in a discussion forum...will we close any threads on rule changes etc. also as they should be brought up with the R&A and usga if anyone has a legitimate gripe

FixdePitchmark

I'd agree and go further than OP.

No open in your club - you shouldn't enjoy the reduced rate or opens in other clubs. Simple.

FixdePitchmark

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

+1 to this.

OP I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but this place is only a discussion forum and not a direct line to the GUI or any administrator involved with a GUI affiliated club.

If you believe you have a legitimate gripe, then go through the proper channel and bring it up on the proper forum, i.e. your GUI branch ADM.

Still a good place to get views and a good sounding board. Is a golf topic.

bustercherry

The Premier Man wrote: »

Hold on a minute now,point out where on my post I mentioned money or pricing??I didn't I'm not one bit concerned about the cost or anything else but the opportunity to play a gui affiliated course in a competition...I can't see how there members avail of other clubs open competitions but have a closed doors policy themselves

"Is your faux outrage is driven by the fact you believe these open competition should be at a reduced green fee? "

It's not a closed door policy either; they do accept green fees.

FixdePitchmark

bustercherry wrote: »

"Is your faux outrage is driven by the fact you believe these open competition should be at a reduced green fee? "

It's not a closed door policy either; they do accept green fees.

But there is no Open and it is at a higher rate - they get reduced rates at other clubs.

What is your point ?

It is not faux outrage - it is bloody annoying and mean spirited to golfers in the same Union.

bustercherry

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But there is no Open and it is at a higher rate - they get reduced rates at other clubs.

What is your point ?

It is not faux outrage - it is bloody annoying and mean spirited to golfers in the same Union.

It's not a closed doors policy; you can still play the course. It's not at a higher rate, it's the same rate as everyone else.

FixdePitchmark

bustercherry wrote: »

It's not a closed doors policy; you can still play the course. It's not at a higher rate, it's the same rate as everyone else.

Opens in every course that have opens - 95 % do - are at a rate well below rack.

That is the point of the thread.

5% have chosen to do the wrong thing (IMO) and have a different rule. I think the 95 % are in a good position to at least ask the question of the problematic 5% and if they want to go their own route - be it excluding women - not having open days or even totally doing their own thing, that is fine.

But I'm saying - and it is my opinion - they shouldn't be in the union.

Simple - controversial as it is - a split in sport is not unusual.

But if you are in a union you are in a union - being selective in it - is totally against the spirit of a union.

Genuinely - I don't think they should be in opens in my club.

Senna

Agree with the OP 100%, nothing to do with expecting a discount, but I have no interest in playing an expensive course outside a comp. Charge the usual rate, but have it as an open every so often and atleast it's an incentive to Irish golfers rather than concentrating on getting more Americans in, which lets face it, is all these clubs care about.

FixdePitchmark

Senna wrote: »

Agree with the OP 100%, nothing to do with expecting a discount, but I have no interest in playing an expensive course outside a comp. Charge the usual rate, but have it as an open every so often and atleast it's an incentive to Irish golfers rather than concentrating on getting more Americans in, which lets face it, is all these clubs care about.

I'm expecting a discount too - they get one at our clubs.

Even in America there is a local rate.

Dublin Spur

completely agree with the OP

members of 'closed' clubs should not be allowed to open on other club's open competitions

members of Portmarnock regularly play in opens in my club but we never get a chance to play in an open in their club - its not fair and there needs to be some balance.

I would be interested to see how these clubs would react if such a rule came in.
Wold they change ? I reckon they would have to.

FixdePitchmark

Dublin Spur wrote: »

completely agree with the OP

members of 'closed' clubs should not be allowed to open on other club's open competitions

members of Portmarnock regularly play in opens in my club but we never get a chance to play in an open in their club - its not fair and there needs to be some balance.

I would be interested to see how these clubs would react if such a rule came in.
Wold they change ? I reckon they would have to.

GUI need these clubs for their majors - so doubt it.

They could put forward the argument - that, this is enough.

But - this is just benefiting a very small number of elite players.

The Premier Man

bustercherry wrote:

It's not a closed doors policy; you can still play the course. It's not at a higher rate, it's the same rate as everyone else.

I understand that but why can't it be in a competition format and give players a chance to play the course and if play well enough might get a prize of some sort or get cut etc..they are afforded this opportunity at our clubs as they are part of the union but we're denied at theirs.We all still pay the same gui membership after all.

dan_ep82

Maybe I'm outside the average but I like to play opens regulary rather than my own course all the time.

If Opens weren't a thing I could save money on GUI fee's, being able to play opens is a huge factor for me joining a Golf Club

CalamariFritti

The first two replies are a slight bit strong, are they not?

If members of that club play opens elsewhere its hardly faux outrage. Its a perfectly legitimate question to ask and does not warrant painting the OP as s cheapskate with a sense of entitlement. And surely we are allowed to talk about it on a golf board? OP seems to have hit a nerve.

bustercherry

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The first two replies are a slight bit strong, are they not?

If members of that club play opens elsewhere its hardly faux outrage. Its a perfectly legitimate question to ask and does not warrant painting the OP as s cheapskate with a sense of entitlement. And surely we are allowed to talk about it on a golf board? OP seems to have hit a nerve.

Not really, it's always the same regurgitated arguments. The simple fact is most people see opens as a way to play courses at a reduced green fee. All these threads follow the same path.

Do I think they should run a few opens? Yes.
Do I think they forced too by the GUI? Not sure.
Do I think if they are forced by the GUI to offer a few opens, the GUI should enforced it at a reduced green fee rate? No Fcuking way

I don't believe people when they talk sh1te about the spirt of the union etc...

CalamariFritti

bustercherry wrote: »

Not really, it's always the same regurgitated arguments. The simple fact is most people see opens as a way to play courses at a reduced green fee. All these threads follow the same path.

Do I think they should run a few opens? Yes.
Do I think they forced too by the GUI? Not sure.
Do I think if they are forced by the GUI to offer a few opens, the GUI should enforced it at a reduced green fee rate? No Fcuking way

I don't believe people when they talk sh1te about the spirt of the union etc...

You certainly feel strongly about it.

On your last point (no effin way). I understand those clubs have a constant high paying revenue stream and I assume your argument is that this shouldn't be affected. Fair enough stance I suppose, but at the same time its a fair enough question to ask why. If they were putting on a small number of midweek opens at a reduced rate it would hardly turn them into poor mouths.

I don't think anyone has mentioned spirit of the union. I believe it was more practical than that. Like if their members play reduced elsewhere ...

Me personally I have no stake at all in this. Most of the time I'm too lazy anyway to drive for hours for a round of golf, especially when its just casual. And I believe they are entitled to charge what they want and if it was worth it to me I'd pay it. Plenty of nice courses around for less than €180. I'm asking from the fairness angle alone.

FixdePitchmark

I used the concept of spirit.
But ok ,if that is a bit flowery I'll expand.

Opens in my view should be bilateral. Simple .

We are not saying impact on income . Fit one in - during off season.

The big course are fairly empty in shoulder and winter.

Pat Ruddy is doing it at European. Golfers heading out in winter/ shoulder are not typically hackers from the local pub.

They are GUI members of clubs and supporting golf in this country.

In sporting associations you shouldn't turn your back on people in the same sport - not to mention same actual union.

Kingswood Rover

Good proposal for a motion at a branch delegate meeting "All clubs affiliated to the GUI are required have a minimum of 3 opens a year to remain affiliated the following year" ........Would it be passed, not really sure.

Ollieboy

Firstly, the GUI don't give a **** about members in clubs (except getting money from them) and the CEO stated this in his podcast last month along with a lot of other stupid comments like calling out cheats is your responsibility. They are only interest in promoting Elite Golfers and running national golf tourneys. The whole GUI model is flawed and needs replacing urgently.

The reason most clubs hold opens at discount rates is probably for the following reasons:

1. Generate extra income in Green Fees (if you have 150 people paying the discount rate of €20 it's still 3k for the club in a single day).

2. Perhaps generate interest from visitors from other clubs to join there club.

So if the above reasons are correct and the club in question don't need that green fee income at a discount rate then they don't need to hold open days at there club.

But I do agree with some of the other posters, they should be force to have open days at the standard green fee rate at least or there members shouldn't be allow to access other clubs Open Days.

But I am sure each individual club can prevent these clubs members from having access to opens at there club and it's not really a GUI matter. So just ask your own committee to stop Portmarnock/Lahinch or other similar clubs to having access to your timesheet on your open days. But I am pretty sure your own club will not want to turn down the potential income.

Kingswood Rover

I am not so Sure that the GUI is that all that broken all the major sporting organizations promote the ****e out of their high profile stars and competitions to maximize revenue and interest. To be fair to the GUI they have invested major time and resources towards the CGI which is certainly doing its best to promote the game across a wider spectrum. Dodgy handicaps are the clubs responsibility, the CEO is right in that regard. All clubs need to publish their results in full with open access, that may discourage some of the handicap protecting that so annoys us "honest golfers"

Hoof Hearted2

The Premier Man wrote: »

That's grand so,we won't have a discussion on it in a discussion forum...will we close any threads on rule changes etc. also as they should be brought up with the R&A and usga if anyone has a legitimate gripe

FWIW, I think you have a point, but there is no condition of GUI affiliation that requires a club to hold X amount of open comps.

So you can discuss it and talk away to your hearts content for all I care, but nothing will come of it and you won't raise it in a forum where something might actually be done about.