What if we knew the afterlife was real?

Polo_Mint

And the Heavens were proved to exist.

Would it lead to an epidemic of suicides?

The idea came from this article

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170124-film-review-the-discovery-explores-the-idea-of-an-afterlife

Boom_Bap

Any thoughts on this yourself Polo_Mint?

Father Hernandez

Deep, so deep

biko

We know it exists!



No fattys or infidels welcome

Del2005

Polo_Mint wrote: »

And the Heavens were proved to exist.

Would it lead to an epidemic of suicides?

The idea came from this article

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170124-film-review-the-discovery-explores-the-idea-of-an-afterlife

I thought that you didn't get into heaven when you commit suicide.

aidan24326

Polo_Mint wrote: »

And the Heavens were proved to exist.

Would it lead to an epidemic of suicides?

The idea came from this article

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170124-film-review-the-discovery-explores-the-idea-of-an-afterlife

No, it wouldn't.

jimgoose

Which exact afterlife franchise are we looking at here? The "vanilla" Judaeo-Christian sort of setup? Valhalla? Reincarnation followed by eventual Nirvana? Muslim Day of Judgement?

not yet

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Deep, so deep

As the nun said to the bishop.

not yet

Del2005 wrote: »

I thought that you didn't get into heaven when you commit suicide.

Only if you're a Jihadi..

BrokenArrows

Del2005 wrote: »

I thought that you didn't get into heaven when you commit suicide.

Depends on the religion.

But assuming we knew 100% that an afterlife existed, it would make life on earth suck. Everyone would be terrified of doing something wrong that would send them to hell.

stimpson

jimgoose wrote: »

Muslin Day of Judgement?

Stupid judgemental fabrics.

andekwarhola

I'd call up my shrink, Dr. Everything'll-Be-Alright, in Beverley Hills.

jimgoose

stimpson wrote: »

Stupid judgemental fabrics.

Oh well-hoofed, chief!

seamus

Depends on so many factors, not least the rules for getting into such an afterlife as well as the conditions of such.

For example, if we knew that the afterlife existed, but we also knew that the only afterlife that existed was literally Hell, would there be any suicides?

Cee-Jay-Cee

But it does exist....

Polo_Mint

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Any thoughts on this yourself Polo_Mint?

My thoughts is that it could lead to mass suicides.

People around the world experience the loss of a loved one on a daily basis or unbearable life changes.

Alot of these people ( Mothers / Fathers / Children and Friends ) find it difficult to even function after these losses or experiences.

Its human nature to fear dying with the unknowns of what happens next no matter if you are religious or not.

If the unknown becomes known and turns out to be paradise . I dont believe alot of people will hang around in what seems to be purgatory for them here.

Thats my opinion. What about you?

Polo_Mint

seamus wrote: »

.
For example, if we knew that the afterlife existed, but we also knew that the only afterlife that existed was literally Hell, would there be any suicides?

IF you knew this would you change how you live your life today?

Terrlock

We only live in a virtual reality. When we die what we call our spiritual body continues in what we call the spiritual world.


I guess what it really is, is something we will all find out.

Maybe this virtual world is simply a test to see if we will are fit to be free in this spiritual world or not.

seamus

Polo_Mint wrote: »

IF you knew this would you change how you live your life today?

Along with everyone else, I'd probably be a bit more careful in making sure I didn't get there sooner than I had to

CruelCoin

jimgoose wrote: »

Which exact afterlife franchise are we looking at here? The "vanilla" Judaeo-Christian sort of setup? Valhalla? Reincarnation followed by eventual Nirvana? Muslim Day of Judgement?

The beer volcanoed, stripper factories heaven of our noodley master, The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only answer of course.

That said, PikkiWoki the Papua New Guinean mud god is offering all the coconuts i can carry!

Polo_Mint

seamus wrote: »

Along with everyone else, I'd probably be a bit more careful in making sure I didn't get there sooner than I had to

And hypothetically speaking, If your life turned to complete **** based on what I wrote above and it was proven to be indeed greener on the other side.

Would you also drag out your life when the fear what happens next is much better?

seamus

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Would you also drag out your life when the fear what happens next is much better?

What?

Polo_Mint

seamus wrote: »

What?

If it was proven that the afterlife was hell.

You said "I'd probably be a bit more careful in making sure I didn't get there sooner than I had to"

If it was proved that the afterlife was indeed what you vision Heaven to be

and you fell into this category

My thoughts is that it could lead to mass suicides.

People around the world experience the loss of a loved one on a daily basis or unbearable life changes.

Alot of these people ( Mothers / Fathers / Children and Friends ) find it difficult to even function after these losses or experiences.

Its human nature to fear dying with the unknowns of what happens next no matter if you are religious or not.

If the unknown becomes known and turns out to be paradise . I dont believe alot of people will hang around in what seems to be purgatory for them here.

Im interested if you would hang around here of take then Heaven Express route

seamus

I'm not 100% on what you're saying, it doesn't seem like English is your first language.

If you're saying that if we knew for a fact a heaven existed and that once you die, you go there unconditionally, then you've got a couple of potential scenarios;

1. Seeing as the time here will be relatively short, why wouldn't you explore and have a bit of craic? A lot of notions about wealth and nationality and race would go out the window.

2. If someone died, you'd know that you will definitely see them again in the afterlife, so the distress about the death of someone would be a good deal less. Especially when you can choose to join them at any time. People would have celebratory parties when they die.

It would completely change the dynamic of the world, so it's impossible and far too simplistic to assume that everyone would immediately choose to die straight away.

Zulu

seamus wrote: »

so it's impossible and far too simplistic to assume that everyone would immediately choose to die straight away.

Exactly, why squallor the "blink-of-an-eye" opportunity to experience mortal life?

Outlaw Pete

If I unlimited access to Swedish nineteen-year-olds and Cavan Cola.. sure, why not.

Sitting on cloud all day with no wifi though... I'll just take my chances down here that a Swedish teen acknowledges my existence and Cavan Cola makes a come back.

Zulu

WTF is Cavan Cola?

Outlaw Pete

Zulu

Well, I don't know what I was expecting...

Walter H Price

I probably still wouldn't be arsed going to mass , dull as fk and the free wafer is nasty

s4uv3

Zulu wrote: »

WTF is Cavan Cola?

Fcukin delish man.

Butters1979

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Is she Swedish though?

ScumLord

Zulu wrote: »

WTF is Cavan Cola?

It's bottled bog water, would be my guess.

Temptamperu

If the afterlife was real it's probably named after some insurance company like the way football stadiums are.

tayto lover

Terrlock wrote: »

We only live in a virtual reality. When we die what we call our spiritual body continues in what we call the spiritual world.


I guess what it really is, is something we will all find out.

Maybe this virtual world is simply a test to see if we will are fit to be free in this spiritual world or not.

Ah great, as long as I have no more electricity, insurance, heating and travel bills it will be great.:D

MonkieSocks

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah great, as long as I have no more electricity, insurance, heating and travel bills it will be great.:D

But there's Excise Duty on Spirits

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It does exist, for many people, and you don't see those believers rushing to commit suicide.

D0NNELLY

Could you opt out? Bound to get bored after a few thousand years

nozzferrahhtoo

I strongly value human life and the lives of individual human beings. I do so for the same reason gold is precious. Each life is RARE. Transient, precious, unique and rare in our universe.

An eternal after life therefore would have the same effect as flooding the market with 1000s of tonnes of Gold. It would cheapen the value of it to near meaninglessness. The very value of life itself, let alone any individual life, would become essentially meaningless under the concept of an after life.

Take the story of the Nazerene for example. This demi-god incarnate...... born of an impregnated against her will underage virgin apparently......... was said to have "given" his life as a "sacrifice" for our human sinful failings.

But we are THEN told this same character is living a life of ETERNAL bliss and dominion at the right hand of the lord of all things. At best I would describe this as a trading up.

Describing it as "giving" his life or a "sacrifice" however borders on absurdist comedy and actually does make an insulting mockery to anyone who actually
has GIVEN their life for a person, a place, or an ideal......... or a direct insult to any parent who actually HAS lost a child.

Chrstopher Hitchens in the final days of his death from cancer put it quite well. He described being informed of your impending death as feeling like being at the best party ever, being tapped on the shoulder, being told you have to leave, but that the party will be going on without you.

In contrast however he said that the Christian notion of an after life felt more like being at that party, being tapped on the shoulder, being informed you can NEVER leave.... and what is more (in ominous tones) the host INSISTS you have a good time while you are there.

No thanks at all. I have seen no reason whatsoever, least of all on this website, to think there is an after life, and every reason to be quite relieved at that fact.

Polo_Mint wrote: »

And the Heavens were proved to exist. Would it lead to an epidemic of suicides? The idea came from this article

I have heard it suggested that one of the reasons we invented the concept of hell was that the people who invented the idea of an eternal paradise to sell their religious nonsense found their targets all too keen to get there.

So a place like hell, coupled with the suggestion that suicide or other methods of checking out early might end up getting you there, was then invented to counter act the effects of the first lie.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

But it does exist....

^ Citation Needed ^

Laura Low Sun wrote: »

It does exist, for many people, and you don't see those believers rushing to commit suicide.

As I said above though, it would be interesting to know how much that is due to the fact that many religions have mediated those beliefs over time to prevent that occurrence. We have already had one user on the thread, for example, espousing the idea that suicide precludes you from heaven access.

gramar

Polo_Mint wrote: »

My thoughts is that it could lead to mass suicides.

People around the world experience the loss of a loved one on a daily basis or unbearable life changes.

Alot of these people ( Mothers / Fathers / Children and Friends ) find it difficult to even function after these losses or experiences.

Its human nature to fear dying with the unknowns of what happens next no matter if you are religious or not.

If the unknown becomes known and turns out to be paradise . I dont believe alot of people will hang around in what seems to be purgatory for them here.

Thats my opinion. What about you?

But knowing they will be reunited with their loved ones this burden would be easier to carry and not to mention the pain they would inflict on others taking their own lives to move onto the
afterlife.

realdanbreen

biko wrote: »

We know it exists!



No fattys or infidels welcome

I guess the problem is that we simply don't know. Even the pope or the most learned theolgians out there don't know, they may believe but they don't know. TBH I think the catholic church do a very bad job in promoting the idea of an afterlife. I'm around a while and I cannot recall a memorable sermon or conversation on the subject with any clergyman or woman.

the_pen_turner

a local preist asked a neighbour of mine would he come back to the church . the priest asked him if he would ike to go to heaven someday.
his response was no it would be very lonely up there.






i think the idea of spending eternity with loads of other people especially those i dont like would be hell.

D0NNELLY

gramar wrote: »

But knowing they will be reunited with their loved ones this burden would be easier to carry and not to mention the pain they would inflict on others taking their own lives to move onto the
afterlife.

Plus, two days over Christmas is enough.. never mind eternity.

nozzferrahhtoo

realdanbreen wrote: »

I guess the problem is that we simply don't know.

It is true that we do not know. Absolutely. But when phrased like you phrase it..... it gives off the impression that we are ENTIRELY lost on the issue and just wandering around as if the whole concept is 50:50 and we are simply clueless.

Now I am not saying that is the impression you INTEND to give off (it may, or may not be) but it is one given off regardless.

But that impression could not be more false. Our knowledge of human consciousness and it's workings is far from complete. FAR. But it is also FAR from empty either.

And ALL of that knowledge so far points to consciousness being linked to a working living brain. NONE of that knowledge so far even SUGGESTS a possible disconnect between the two. Let alone to the point one can survive the death of the other.

So sure. We do not "know". We can not say 100% there is an after life. We can not say 100% there is not one.

But we CAN say that 100% of the current data set suggests there is none and 0% of the current data suggests there is.

So we do not "know" but we can make a firm statement of what it is rational to expect on the subject because it is rare that ALL the data points one direction and NONE of it the other. A belief in an after life is not only itself unsubstantiated, it goes AGAINST what little substantiation and knowledge we actually do have.

And I think that small, but important, nuance is not carried across in a phrase like "we simply don't know".

munster87

San Junipero

Dr Crayfish

Butters1979 wrote: »

Is she Swedish though?

Do you come with the Cavan Cola?
Oh you hehe!

realdanbreen

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

It is true that we do not know. Absolutely. But when phrased like you phrase it..... it gives off the impression that we are ENTIRELY lost on the issue and just wandering around as if the whole concept is 50:50 and we are simply clueless.

Now I am not saying that is the impression you INTEND to give off (it may, or may not be) but it is one given off regardless.

But that impression could not be more false. Our knowledge of human consciousness and it's workings is far from complete. FAR. But it is also FAR from empty either.

And ALL of that knowledge so far points to consciousness being linked to a working living brain. NONE of that knowledge so far even SUGGESTS a possible disconnect between the two. Let alone to the point one can survive the death of the other.

So sure. We do not "know". We can not say 100% there is an after life. We can not say 100% there is not one.

But we CAN say that 100% of the current data set suggests there is none and 0% of the current data suggests there is.

So we do not "know" but we can make a firm statement of what it is rational to expect on the subject because it is rare that ALL the data points one direction and NONE of it the other. A belief in an after life is not only itself unsubstantiated, it goes AGAINST what little substantiation and knowledge we actually do have.

And I think that small, but important, nuance is not carried across in a phrase like "we simply don't know".

My main point was that I cannot recall a sermon or conversation with a priest or nun that was full of enthusiasm about an afterlife. Sermons that consist of parsing through the letters of St Paul to the ........... ain't working I'm afraid. I live 1/2 mile from a church and I have never had a priest call for a chat or to enquire if I had any concerns. The bottom line is that if I was convinced about an afterlife or even the existance of God I would be SHOUTING it from the rooftops!

nozzferrahhtoo

realdanbreen wrote: »

My main point was that I cannot recall a sermon or conversation with a priest or nun that was full of enthusiasm about an afterlife.

I suspect that part of the reason for that is it pays the religious business model to not be too specific about the aspects of a religion that the majority of the religious hold dear.

The reason for this is simple. If you are too specific about it, then you risk alienating the followers who have a belief that those not match the specific.

So to be TOO specific about an after life, and it's from and attributes would be to risk alienating the people who have differing beliefs about the after life.

I saw something very similar when I was performing scientific experiments on the crackers I have in my possession.

I discovered that Catholics generally fall into three main camps in what they believe about the Eucharist. And priests on the pulpit, or religious education in schools, did not appear to me to be rushing in with clarifications and specifics.

And it dawned on me that one reason for this is likely that whichever camp they support by being specific and clear.......... they risk losing the people in the other camps who think "No that is not what I believe, this is not for me!". So it pays not to be TOO clear or enthusiastic about talking deeply on some issues.

The business model is best served by letting people THINK they personal beliefs are matched by those of their church, and to not be too keen about getting into the specifics of it.