€40 boiler service

TPM

Sorry I know its been said here before.

I just got a text message re an oil boiler I was due to service tomorrow. "can you drop the price for the service tomorrow, my neighbor gave me the number of someone who will do it for €40"

When will people accept that an oil boiler CANNOT be serviced properly for €40 or €50. its getting beyond a joke, someone takes a burner out looks at it and puts it back in charges €40 and calls it a service.
Something needs to be done to protect both homeowners and service technicians/plumbers/heating engineers or what ever you want to call them. but dont think i will hold my breath for oftec,or the government to do anything

the_pen_turner

I see this all th time. Customers will let any clown do work for them if they are cheaper


How much is a real service

TPM

thats the question.
im trying to set a price myself
apart from the actual boiler/burner service(cleaning, inspection, nozzle/oil line and filter replacement, electrode checking, oil pump/pressure and filter check, combustion setting and fga etc.)

you are checking/responsible for
boiler/flue location installed corectly
safety valve operation
high temp stat operation
fire valve operation
oil tank condition, integrity and being installed correctly(including if it should be bunded)
tank location and base meets requirements
water or other contamination in oil tank/supply system
oil supply system condition, integrity and correct installation
even the operation of timeclock and heating controls if you want to get really technical.

taking into account what you are actually suppose to do, the responsibility you are taking on, parts fitted (and cost of carrying spares (capacitors, gaskets, safety valves, fire valves, photo cells etc) overheads (insurances, registration fees, transport costs, tools and calibrations) imo it really needs to be over €100.

let the war commence lol

JamesM

It may be of interest to some young service guys how us ancient types ran our businesses over the years.
After 5 years in an office selling car parts, I joined Texaco in 1970 and trained to be a service engineer. I was self employed from 1974. From 1979 to 2013,when I retired, I did not do one off services. I insisted that people sign a service agreement every September. It worked very simply, I sent out a form and they sent part of the form back with a cheque. The services were spread out over the whole year, so I often has as many services in May as October, not like some guys who are rushed off their feet in the months before Christmas, and then, if it's a mild year, not much work on towards the summer. I included 1 service, unlimited breakdown calls and a nozzle when needed. Sometimes for regular customers I included gaskets, oil lines and maybe second hand parts that I had accumulated from old burners - sometimes I even passed on old burners. The price usually increased every 2 years. From 2007 the price stayed at €120.00, incl VAT until I retired in 2013. From 1979, I had between 500 and 550 customers signed up every year, up to the last 2 years, when I started winding down.
Jim.

cupan_tae

It must be a certain mindset, but as a consumer I expect to pay based on the service provided, experience, workmanship, honesty etc. I'm happy to pay top price - but the job must be done to the highest of standards anything else is simply not acceptable. The consumer in this scenario really needs to think - why is the quoted price so low ? Either its some clown without a clue - or be ready for a whole heap of extras once they are on site.

interesting read jim, you sound like a legend, a career behind you and looks like a sound business model. Hope your enjoying your retirement - still checking the plumbing forum here I see . Father in law is the same, we'll be toasting retirement one night and the next morning see the Van driving out the gate to a job

pilly

TPM wrote: »

Sorry I know its been said here before.

I just got a text message re an oil boiler I was due to service tomorrow. "can you drop the price for the service tomorrow, my neighbor gave me the number of someone who will do it for €40"

When will people accept that an oil boiler CANNOT be serviced properly for €40 or €50. its getting beyond a joke, someone takes a burner out looks at it and puts it back in charges €40 and calls it a service.
Something needs to be done to protect both homeowners and service technicians/plumbers/heating engineers or what ever you want to call them. but dont think i will hold my breath for oftec,or the government to do anything

How long does it take you to do the service?

Sleeper12

pilly wrote:

How long does it take you to do the service?

I replaced a mira shower today just past greystones. It was a 2 hour round trip. Took 25 minutes to replace the actual shower.
A correctly serviced oil boiler will save you money as it will be adjusted for optimum performance. The 400 euro service is a guy with a vacuum cleaner thinking a service is just cleaning it out

pilly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I replaced a mira shower today just past greystones. It was a 2 hour round trip. Took 25 minutes to replace the actual shower.
A correctly serviced oil boiler will save you money as it will be adjusted for optimum performance. The 400 euro service is a guy with a vacuum cleaner thinking a service is just cleaning it out

You didn't actually answer the question though? How long does it take to service a boiler? That was a politicians answer.

Sleeper12

pilly wrote:

You didn't actually answer the question though? How long does it take to service a boiler? That was a politicians answer.

I don't service boilers so I didn't answer. I'll leave it to the service guys.
I was just showing that it's not just time spent at the house. I might have to go a half an hour our of my way to pick up shower parts. I'm sure it is the same with boilers.

pilly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't service boilers so I didn't answer. I'll leave it to the service guys.
I was just showing that it's not just time spent at the house. I might have to go a half an hour our of my way to pick up shower parts. I'm sure it is the same with boilers.

Oh right sorry, I thought you were the OP. Okay, I get that there's time travelling to a job etc. but my point would be there's a market rate for labour and it's set by the market so if there are guys out there charging a cheaper hourly rate, they can't all be crap at what they do.

An example would be mechanics, there are a lot of guys out there who are cheap but very good at what they do.

Dtp1979

pilly wrote: »

Oh right sorry, I thought you were the OP. Okay, I get that there's time travelling to a job etc. but my point would be there's a market rate for labour and it's set by the market so if there are guys out there charging a cheaper hourly rate, they can't all be crap at what they do.

An example would be mechanics, there are a lot of guys out there who are cheap but very good at what they do.

If you can get a guy to service your boiler to the standard outlined a few posts back for 40 euro then go with that. It generally takes anything up to 1.5 hrs to service a Boiler depending on its condition.

pilly

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If you can get a guy to service your boiler to the standard outlined a few posts back for 40 euro then go with that. It generally takes anything up to 1.5 hrs to service a Boiler depending on its condition.

That's fine, that's all I wanted to know. So €40 is obviously not a fair payment. Just wanted a simple answer as to how long it takes, that's all.

cruiser202006

Takes anything between 1-2 hours to service oil boiler. For €40 I doubt he'd be even changing nozzle as they cost between €6 to €10 euro depending where he's buying them.

Tom44

And don't forget the tax man also gets more than 1/3 of the bill, between VAT & Personal Tax.

TPM

pilly wrote: »

How long does it take you to do the service?

how long is a piece of string it depends on the make/model of boiler and burner, what condition it is in what access is like etc. but typically 1-2 hrs.
the time the service takes is only a small portion of the whole thing
you have standard consumable parts, nozzle, filters, hoses
you then have to carry a full range of parts
tools, van running costs
insurance, registration fees, analyser calibration
etc etc

allowance for callback if the boiler fails shortly after service, for the times you turn up and no one is there.

But the bigger problem is that people are not aware of what a full oil service actually is and therefor dont know how much they are getting shortchanged by the €40 man

TPM

pilly wrote: »

if there are guys out there charging a cheaper hourly rate, they can't all be crap at what they do.

An example would be mechanics, there are a lot of guys out there who are cheap but very good at what they do.

they are doing cash work so no vat or tax being paid, no insurance,
not changing the required service parts,
no analyser to set up the burner correctly(so no purchase and calibration cost to recover)
not carrying out all the inspection and tests.

in reality €40 inc vat would not cover the costs of a legit, insured, properly trained individual with all the required tools and equipment calibrated with the nozzle even getting to the boiler.

Sleeper12

Tom44 wrote: »

And don't forget the tax man also gets more than 1/3 of the bill, between VAT & Personal Tax.

He gets around 60% off me. This doesn't take into account tolls, diesel, insurance, accountant, van, updating equipment & tools or even doing courses to keep your knowledge up to date. I don't get sick days or paid bank holidays. For an hour before I leave the house I get invoices ready for the day. When I'm home I beg my wife to leave me alone for another hour because I'm not on facebook I'm answering emails or printing quotes. My phone is on 8am to 8pm & I get 2 to 3 dozen call during this time. Most won't turn into jobs. A lot would be trying to fix the shower over the phone.

I like what I do & I make a good living at it so I hate to complain but it really depresses me when someone compares my prices to a guy on the dole

DGOBS

My usual response to the '€40' call was to ask the customer if they were driving down the road to get their car serviced and they passed working on the side of the street servicing cars with a sign that was half the price of the garage or dealership they were heading too, would they stop and use him instead.

Most said 'no', when asked why they would usually give the obvious reasons, then I'd tell them, well, thats the same for your boiler service, now do you want to go ahead as arranged, or give the €40 guy a call?

The ones I lost, I would say most came back the following year, as they had seen what I usually did (or how long it usually took) and after the conversation above, a keen eye was usually kept and questions asked of their new 'service engineer'.

Can't win them all, but I would never adjust my price given that type of call, even for regular customers.

There will always be this type of 'boiler cleaner' to compete with, but they are no competition, and where price is the ultimate and only reasoning for the customer to choose it, I have to ask myself, is that the customer I want too? When the appliance needs parts, preventative maintenance, its an argument.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He gets around 60% off me. This doesn't take into account tolls, diesel, insurance, accountant, van, updating equipment & tools or even doing courses to keep your knowledge up to date. I don't get sick days or paid bank holidays. For an hour before I leave the house I get invoices ready for the day. When I'm home I beg my wife to leave me alone for another hour because I'm not on facebook I'm answering emails or printing quotes. My phone is on 8am to 8pm & I get 2 to 3 dozen call during this time. Most won't turn into jobs. A lot would be trying to fix the shower over the phone.

I like what I do & I make a good living at it so I hate to complain but it really depresses me when someone compares my prices to a guy on the dole

WOW, your a very lucky man having to beg your wife to leave you alone:cool:, I only have my birthdays

jimf

gary71 wrote: »

WOW, your a very lucky man having to beg your wife to leave you alone:cool:, I only have my birthdays

so your one of these guys that age by the week so gary :D

Tom44

I have to beg wives to leave me alone!
But then I only charge €40
So maybe thats why.
Older boilers cost more, especially if it's over 30 years.





I wish.