Fog lights - NCT

richy

Hi there,

One of my fog lights arent working on my car. A friend of my dad says that the fog light not working isnt a failure. I read on here that having one fog out is a failure but having both out isnt. Reason being that sometimes fog lights are for show only.

Any truth to this?

Atlantic Dawn

If they are there they are tested and it will fail if they either are not working. See page 52...

https://www.ncts.ie/media/1004/nct-manual-july-2014.pdf

vandriver

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If they are there they are tested and it will fail if they either are not working. See page 52...

https://www.ncts.ie/media/1004/nct-manual-july-2014.pdf

Page 52 says.,.
'
Where auxiliary lamps are found to be inoperative, this should not be considered a reason for failure'

Tigger

front fogs are optional

punisher5112

Get insulation tape and cover them.

bazz26

Only rear fog light(s) are required and tested. Front fog lights are not required or tested in the NCT.

Cheensbo

bazz26 wrote: »

Only rear fog light(s) are required and tested. Front fog lights are not required or tested in the NCT.

Rears are not required either, they are tested if present though.

GM228

vandriver wrote: »

Page 52 says.,.
'
Where auxiliary lamps are found to be inoperative, this should not be considered a reason for failure'

That only applies to auxiliary lamps (spot/long range lamps), fog lamps are different.

Special Circumstances

GM228 wrote: »

That only applies to auxiliary lamps (spot/long range lamps), fog lamps are different.

Son I am disappoint.

If a light is not an auxiliary light... what is it? A legally required light? Fog lamps are not legally required on the front.


EDIT - bizarre, GM228 you are correct in the "letter of the law (well,NCT manual)" sense. We really do have a strange relationship with fog lamps in this country.
Rather than the list being
Auxiliary lamps:
-Fog lamps...
-spot/longrange ...

It's
Foglamps:
Auxiliary lamps:
-spot/long range...

Front foglamps are auxiliary lamps by any sane definition of auxiliary lamps. Why have they done this arseways definition in the NCT manual.

GM228

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Son I am disappoint.

If a light is not an auxiliary light... what is it? A legally required light? Fog lamps are not legally required on the front.


EDIT - bizarre, GM228 you are correct in the "letter of the law (well,NCT manual)" sense. We really do have a strange relationship with fog lamps in this country.
Rather than the list being
Auxiliary lamps:
-Fog lamps...
-spot/longrange ...

It's
Foglamps:
Auxiliary lamps:
-spot/long range...

Front foglamps are auxiliary lamps by any sane definition of auxiliary lamps. Why have they done this arseways definition in the NCT manual.

It's not just the NCT manuals "law", the actual law on the issue (S.I. No. 322/2014 - Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2014) says the same. An non working front fog lamp is a failure, and intetestingly so is an auxiliary lamp, no exemption for that is written into statute like it has in the NCT manual.

Any sane definition is irrelevant, it's what is written into law that counts.

joujoujou

Tape them over. Remove/hide/tapeover switch. No lights - no fail.

jca

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If they are there they are tested and it will fail if they either are not working. See page 52...

https://www.ncts.ie/media/1004/nct-manual-july-2014.pdf

I've never seen a fail for front fogs, whether they work or not. I've seen vehicles with broken glass on front fogs pass the test.

Noveight

Spots weren't working in an old Micra I had and the testers took no notice, pretty sure he didn't even check them.

Buffman

punisher5112 wrote: »

Get insulation tape and cover them.

joujoujou wrote: »

Tape them over. Remove/hide/tapeover switch. No lights - no fail.

Maybe I'm too old skool, but I think changing the bulb to get it working would be less hassle, and as a added bonus you actually end up with working lights.:rolleyes:

richy wrote: »

One of my fog lights arent working on my car. A friend of my dad says that the fog light not working isnt a failure. I read on here that having one fog out is a failure but having both out isnt.

Hi, while it mightn't fail the NCT, after all the hassle you had in court over the broken brake lights, I'd be inclined to have everything working.

Isambard

Noveight wrote: »

Spots weren't working in an old Micra I had and the testers took no notice, pretty sure he didn't even check them.

Spot lights are lights that come on/ go off with full headlights. What you are talking about is front foglights presumably.

Special Circumstances

Isambard wrote: »

Spot lights are lights that come on/ go off with full headlights. What you are talking about is front foglights presumably.

I admire your dedication to common sense and correct terminology, but the battle was lost a long time ago. The legal status of front fogs as above and distinct from "auxiliary" lights is the final blow against any hope of a sensible treatment of foglights in this country.

Presumably as only "spots/long range/driving" lamps are legally auxiliary or optional lamps and don't necessarily need to work, front fogs must be a legal requirement and must work as they are main/primary lighting?
Can you be fined for not having these non-auxiliary lamps?
Does this explain some peoples desperate need to turn them on any chance they get - "look garda, I am a responsible driver not like those people who don't even have the full complement of non-auxiliary lighting"?

Noveight

Isambard wrote: »

Spot lights are lights that come on/ go off with full headlights. What you are talking about is front foglights presumably.

Indeed you're right there, the ones I'm on about had their own switch separate to the headlights.

Isambard

Noveight wrote: »

Indeed you're right there, the ones I'm on about had their own switch separate to the headlights.

presumably with a little foglight symbol on the switch.

punisher5112

Buffman wrote: »

Maybe I'm too old skool, but I think changing the bulb to get it working would be less hassle, and as a added bonus you actually end up with working lights.:rolleyes:



Hi, while it mightn't fail the NCT, after all the hassle you had in court over the broken brake lights, I'd be inclined to have everything working.

Will you stop.

I have many a time had to as unlucky test date glass smashed.

Other was electrical fault and no power cable corroded so covered no issues.

Of course fit a bulb if it sorts it but not always that simple.

Buffman

punisher5112 wrote: »

Will you stop.
..............
Of course fit a bulb if it sorts it but not always that simple.

With the limited information in the OP, I think a suggestion to a least attempt to fix it first is reasonable. If it's something more complex or expensive than a bulb, then consider the cover up/removal bodge if you're stuck.

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have many a time had to as unlucky test date glass smashed.

Other was electrical fault and no power cable corroded so covered no issues.

Ye, I've had the same, some clear 'lens repair tape' does a good job as long as there's some glass left.

I've had to rewire the connections and go chasing/repairing relays in the past. Unless you're really stuck for time, I don't see the point in not fixing it TBH.

punisher5112

Buffman wrote: »

With the limited information in the OP, I think a suggestion to a least attempt to fix it first is reasonable. If it's something more complex or expensive than a bulb, then consider the cover up/removal bodge if you're stuck.




Ye, I've had the same, some clear 'lens repair tape' does a good job as long as there's some glass left.

I've had to rewire the connections and go chasing/repairing relays in the past. Unless you're really stuck for time, I don't see the point in not fixing it TBH.

No totally true. I would fix straight away just time restraints at times.

Buffman

While we're on the topic of fog lights, anyone else find it annoying that some manufacturers/models have glass front fog lights and plastic headlights. I can't see the logic, the plastic headlights fade over time while the lower glass foglights get broken? If anything it should be the other way around.

punisher5112 wrote: »

No totally true. I would fix straight away just time restraints at times.

That's fair enough, the OP hasn't confirmed the exact issue so it's difficult to offer accurate advice.

jenny smith

my sister failed nct partly because the rear fog lights did not work. But one of the front fogs has lens missing but works? So are front fogs checked?

Seth Brundle

If they're present then they must work.
https://www.ncts.ie/media/1004/nct-manual-july-2014.pdf

punisher5112

Buffman wrote: »

While we're on the topic of fog lights, anyone else find it annoying that some manufacturers/models have glass front fog lights and plastic headlights. I can't see the logic, the plastic headlights fade over time while the lower glass foglights get broken? If anything it should be the other way around.



That's fair enough, the OP hasn't confirmed the exact issue so it's difficult to offer accurate advice.

Plastic ones wouldn't take as much abuse at the lower level.

TheRiverman

Isambard wrote: »

Spot lights are lights that come on/ go off with full headlights. What you are talking about is front foglights presumably.

Yes,front foglights, those things on the front of a car that alot of drivers have on all the time regardless whether there is fog or not, don't know how to turn them off and haven't a ****ing clue what they are for:mad:

biko

The only topic in this thread is "how are fogs tested in nct?"

laneooo

Sisters car passed with one fog light bulb blown(front) depends on who ya get i suppose.

richy

Thanks for those with helpful replies. They didn;t test it so it was fine. Passed no problem, The fog light doesn't just need a new bulb. I am not an idiot.

The problem would require an auto electrician to run a new electrical wire through the car to get it working again. Its a big job for a car thats worth only a couple hundred.

It is the front fog light too that isnt working and yes I did go to a mechanic before my NCT.

richy

Buffman wrote: »

Maybe I'm too old skool, but I think changing the bulb to get it working would be less hassle, and as a added bonus you actually end up with working lights.:rolleyes:



Hi, while it mightn't fail the NCT, after all the hassle you had in court over the broken brake lights, I'd be inclined to have everything working.

Thanks Inspector Clouseau!

blastman

The front fog lights on my car haven't worked for years and it has never been an issue at NCT

Buffman

From my reading of section 32 (AUXILIARY LAMP CONDITION AND POSITION) of the NCT manual, the section relates to both 'front fog lamps' and 'auxiliary headlamps' and has specific fails for both. For front fog lamps the reasons for failure are:

1 Incorrectly positioned (see page 53).
2 Insecurely mounted.
3 Switch defective or does not operate lamp independently
of side light.
4 Not white or yellow.

From the 3rd post on the thread:

vandriver wrote: »

Page 52 says.,.
'
Where auxiliary lamps are found to be inoperative, this should not be considered a reason for failure'

From my reading of the section and the position diagram on page 53, the 'auxiliary lamps' in that sentence relate to both 'front fog lamps' and 'auxiliary headlamps'.

Then in section 33 (AUXILIARY LAMP AIM), there's an additional test for front fog lamps with the reason for failure of:

1 The upper edge of the beam is above the 2% horizontal line.

So, based on what's said in section 32, a non-working front fog light will pass this section also.

richy wrote: »

They didn;t test it so it was fine. Passed no problem, The fog light doesn't just need a new bulb. I am not an idiot.

Congratulations on passing the test. I don't think anyone was implying the last bit. My earlier point, which wasn't aimed at yourself, was more that covering over the problem rather than at least attempting to fix it, should not be the suggested first course of action.

richy wrote: »

The problem would require an auto electrician to run a new electrical wire through the car to get it working again. Its a big job for a car thats worth only a couple hundred.

Ye, sounds like corrosion or a break in the wiring loom. It would be a very quick and simple job for any mechanic to run a wire over from the working foglight. Any I've worked on have had both fog lights on the same relay and fuse anyway so no issues with doing it.

But, yes, I can understand if the car isn't worth much it's probably not worth paying to get it done, more of a DIY job.

richy wrote: »

Thanks Inspector Clouseau!

No worries 'Mon'Ami'!:)

GM228

Buffman wrote: »

From my reading of section 32 (AUXILIARY LAMP CONDITION AND POSITION) of the NCT manual, the section relates to both 'front fog lamps' and 'auxiliary headlamps' and has specific fails for both. For front fog lamps the reasons for failure are:

From the 3rd post on the thread:

From my reading of the section and the position diagram on page 53, the 'auxiliary lamps' in that sentence relate to both 'front fog lamps' and 'auxiliary headlamps'.

Then in section 33 (AUXILIARY LAMP AIM), there's an additional test for front fog lamps with the reason for failure of:
So, based on what's said in section 32, a non-working front fog light will pass this section

The NCT manual specifically refers to auxiliary lamps and fog lamp as seperate items, even the diagram distinguishes them in their own bold title as seperate types of lamps, the inoperative note referenced from the manual specifically refers to the auxiliary lamp, but not the fog lamp.

And what makes it even more interesting is that the real law on the issue (statute, not the manual) requires a refusal for auxiliary and fog lamps.