Giving old XP laptop to mama

cormie

Hey folks,
I kept my Dell Vostro 1500 as a backup incase my replacement XPS L502x had to be sent back for any repairs etc. I'm considering upgrading to a Dell XPS 9560 next and will use my L502x as a backup and considering I'd probably get nothing (?) for my Vostro and my mam has expressed interest in getting a laptop for word processing (she has an android tablet she gets use out of for YouTube, web browsing etc), so I was going to give it to her.

The only thing is, it's got XP and I believe that this is no longer supported security wise, so I'm not sure it's safe to have it connected to the internet for her?

At the same time, it would be great for her to learn how to use the laptop for general browsing and the likes too (she's always been a huge technophobe but has slightly grasped using the tablet).

I'd like as little hassle with this as possible and if I can avoid reinstalling the OS etc I certainly will.

I'd also like to be able to help her remotely if need be, so guessing a shortcut to teamviewer on the desktop will be enough for this

I'm just posting for any cautionary things I may not be thinking of. I don't think it'd be necessary to keep it disconnected, but just if there's anything specific to look out for!

Any feedback would be great

me_irl

Personally I'd format it and put Peppermint OS with LibreOffice on it.

You can use Teamviewer on Linux... or use the Chrome Remote Desktop Viewer.

ItHurtsWhenIP

It is a really risky proposition to connect a WinXP machine to the internet as it is no longer receiving any sort of security patches. Also most browsers and anti-virus software are no longer providing support for WinXP which makes it's use by a complete novice very risky.

While this is a whimsical view of the problem of letting the Mammy at the internet, without a well protected OS and other operational protections, you're asking for trouble:

For a machine that old, you could try Linux Mint, Ubuntu or if they don't work LUbuntu. Use something like PenDriveLinux to burn the OS image to a USB stick and boot from that (not install) just to see what they look like and if they even work with the older hardware.

AnCatDubh

Unwise to give anything with XP on it to anyone at this stage (venerable and all as it was/is), and if you are reluctant to reinstall the OS then that's where your journey ends. Simply don't give it.

On the other hand if you seriously want to give it to her, then throw something like what me_irl above suggests. Its a no cost solution but for your time installing and learning a little about it (if you don't already know the operating system). Mint is also a good choice, but as they are free OSs - try one or two of them before committing and see what you like / what might work for her.

Lastly, if incurring some cost is an option, then there are some good deals at the moment for basic or entry level consumer grade laptops or maybe a cheap tablet would suffice for her uses.

Obviously XP will continue to run but you don't really want to put your mum on the internet with the potential of compromise at every click of her mouse within the web browser.

cormie

Wow. thanks for the speedy replies folks. So 2 recommendations for linux so far?!

I've always been a fan of opensource and used rockbox for my mp3 players, would always go android over APPLE etc, but I've always wanted to stick with windows for pc/laptop use as I know it so well and it's pretty customisable as it is.

That's annoying to hear it would actually be a risk. My mam is 100x worse than the mammy portrayed there (questions like does it run out of ink etc for our first pc and asking can you print things from the laptop and when I say yeah, asking where does the paper go :pac:)

The pen drive option might be good. I'd rather openoffice as it's what I use myself and I'm familiar with it, would a pen drive option loaded with openoffice be ok? Will everything else be similar enough in daily usage? Teamviewer still an option if she needs me to remotely help?

Jakey Rolling

+1 on Linux Mint, Libre Office, Teamviewer.

Works for my father, age 85.

PrzemoF

+1

Go linux, it's almost bulletproof. The biggest problem I've seen in a last 2 years from a non-techie family member was folded email account in Evolution ("All my emails are gone!! I broke it!")

cormie

What about Linux Mint VS Peppermint? 2 suggestions for Linux Mint so far vs 1 for peppermint?


Why LibreOffice over OpenOffice? If I'm used to OpenOffice, would it not be best to use this so I wouldn't have to learn a new program to support the little use she'll be giving it?

bonzodog2

You might check if the BIOS supports USB booting, (prob F12 on a DELL, or maybe F9) if not you'll need to burn an optical disk

me_irl

cormie wrote: »

What about Linux Mint VS Peppermint? 2 suggestions for Linux Mint so far vs 1 for peppermint?


Why LibreOffice over OpenOffice? If I'm used to OpenOffice, would it not be best to use this so I wouldn't have to learn a new program to support the little use she'll be giving it?

I'm going from personal experience, but found that Mint crashes (for me) on my old Toshiba Satellite that's roughly 9 years old. Peppermint runs smoothly on it.

You can "live boot" either OS from a usb to test it out first.

Download the iso's from each site.
Use Rufus to create the bootable usb.
When the machine boots tap F11 (or F12) to get in to the boot settings.
Select Boot from USB and then follow the on-screen instructions.
You don't need to worry about breaking anything as you're "testing" a live version of the OS that's currently running from the usb drive.

I usually do this to make sure it picks up the drivers / wireless.

More info on OO vs LO - http://www.howtogeek.com/187663/openoffice-vs.-libreoffice-whats-the-difference-and-which-should-you-use/

cormie

I'm pretty sure it does.

So do I just download it, drag it to a usb drive, set the Vostro to boot from USB and it should start up ok?

What happens if the USB stick is removed when the laptop is on? Where is the data stored. Can Linux recognise what space on the HD is currently in use by windows, or would it just view it all as free and write over everything?

PrzemoF

cormie wrote: »

[..]Why LibreOffice over OpenOffice? If I'm used to OpenOffice, would it not be best to use this so I wouldn't have to learn a new program to support the little use she'll be giving it?

I guess you're asking about Apache OpenOffice? Original OpenOffice was discontinued in 2011.

From wikipedia about AOO:"In January 2015 the project reported a lack of active developers and code contributions and that they were "still struggling in involving new volunteers who can independently work on big developments".[9] After ongoing problems with unfixed security vulnerabilities through 2015 and 2016,[10][11] in September 2016 the project started discussions on possibly retiring AOO"

TL;DR: You should switch to LibreOffice yourself as well.

me_irl

cormie wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does.

So do I just download it, drag it to a usb drive, set the Vostro to boot from USB and it should start up ok?

What happens if the USB stick is removed when the laptop is on? Where is the data stored. Can Linux recognise what space on the HD is currently in use by windows, or would it just view it all as free and write over everything?

Just in case you missed it, you'll need to "burn" the iso to a usb using the likes of Rufus (link above).

Nothing happens if the usb stick is removed. Just reboot and it'll boot back to the C drive.

You can use the file explorer on linux to view the c drive and available space there.

I think Mint should have a partition manager installed by default too.

EDIT: It does... gparted (http://gparted.org/)

When installing it'll ask to wipe everything or install side-by-side. I'd recommend to wipe the entire disk (ensuring you've backed up everything you can!).

EDIT2: Also, you can use the Package Manager to easily install applications if you're not familiar with using linux (debian-based). https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1525

cormie

Thanks again for all the help everyone!! A lot of info to take in at once. A little overwhelming, anyone do nixers for this kinda thing near Dun Laoghaire?

I might have to switch to Libre then, just worried all my spreadsheet/calc formatting will be arseways if I do

me_irl

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again for all the help everyone!! A lot of info to take in at once. A little overwhelming, anyone do nixers for this kinda thing near Dun Laoghaire?

I might have to switch to Libre then, just worried all my spreadsheet/calc formatting will be arseways if I do

It's easy enough to do yourself (I mean I hadn't a feckin' clue before!)

1. Download Linux Mint ISO here (go for the MATE version), and/or Peppermint OS iso here.
(Note: Check to see if you're running a 64bit version of XP first!)
2. Download rufus.
3. Insert a blank usb and use rufus to "burn" the iso to the key.
4. Insert the key in to the Dell and when booting up tap F12 to get in to boot options.
5. Choose usb and wait.
6. Select Test Live Mint (wording may be different)
7. Ensure you can browse the net and you can change audio / video settings.
8. If all goes OK, click the Install shortcut on the desktop.
9. Follow the setup wizard (ensuring you take care at each step and choose "entire disk" when installing).
10. Done!

On the menu you can search for 'package'. This should find the Synaptic Package Manager. From there you can click on the magnifying glass icon, select the Name dropdown and enter Libre to find and install libreoffice and teamviewer to find and install that too.

This vid should help too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSdchGgZrMM

cormie

Brilliant, thanks a lot for that.

Another concern I'd have with this, is that once it's all set up, is that it? Will it update itself with security updates and I won't need to do anything or would I be needing to check all is ok a few times a year?

riclad

This is the version i used , when i used an old laptop with 2gig ram.cpu dual core 2.oghz , Hd drive 300gig.
make sure and install the chromium browser or the chrome browser .
chromium is similar to the chrome browser but with no links to google.
https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=38
if you download the latest version of linux it,ll run very slow if the laptop
has only 2gig ram.
I tried 7 versions of linux,on some versions it was hard to get the laptop to login to acess the wifi network even after putting in the password.

riclad

You could buy a laptop 64bit cpu,2.oghz 4gig ram for 180 euro on adverts.ie
with windows 7 on it .

http://www.howtogeek.com/172987/revive-your-old-pc-the-3-best-linux-systems-for-old-computers/

lubuntu linux looks good ,it comes with the chromium browser built in.
I think anyone with internet acess at home should have at least 1 laptop,
a tablet will need to be charged very 2 days .

cormie

Really appreciate the help and looking up stuff on adverts too.

I'd rather make the most of the laptop I have. It's a Vostro 1500, so should be similar spec to this: https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-vostro-1500-laptop-computer-intel-celeron-m-m540-1-86ghz-ddr2-sdram-1-00mb-80-gb/specs/

I can't remember the exact config, but besides that, I try minimise as much as possible the amount of waste and would hate to buy new when what I have already will do the job, not mad on the idea of disposable consumables and even though I've certainly had my own use from the Vostro, I think it's still got life

So you're suggesting don't go for the general Mint, but go for a lower spec one?

riclad

i,d go for lubuntu linux ,it runs on pcs with 512meg or 1gig ram.
RE waste i give away any pc or laptop i,m not using .
Theres charitys that take laptops,pcs.
Make sure theres no personal data on it,
eg passwords, pin nos,credit cards no,name,adress etc
the latest version of mint of linux wont run on a pc with only 1gig ramhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu

make sure and get 32bit the version .download the iso burn to cd.
as a bootable disk.
copy any music photos you need before installing linux
yuo can buy ram from CEX SHOP cex.ie and put in another 2gig ram chip .
2gig ram is 10 euro approx.
you have to buy ram ddr2 the same speed as the pc you have now.
eg ddr2 pc 2400 =2400 = speed of ram chip

PropJoe10

Lubuntu or Ubuntu MATE would be my suggestion for that age of machine - if you're only running 1GB RAM, then I'd probably say Lubuntu.

http://lubuntu.net/

As previous users said, its not really advisable using XP on the Internet anymore because it's a lot more prone to viruses and malware now that it doesn't get any security updates anymore. For basic internet usage, Lubuntu would be fine! Its a lightweight version of Ubuntu but has access to all the same software that you'd get in Ubuntu. Just uses a less resource-hungry desktop environment.

I live in south Dublin by the way so feel free to shoot me a PM if you run into any roadblocks! Good luck!

mach1982

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again for all the help everyone!! A lot of info to take in at once. A little overwhelming, anyone do nixers for this kinda thing near Dun Laoghaire?

I might have to switch to Libre then, just worried all my spreadsheet/calc formatting will be arseways if I do

Don't about nixers, but there a very active Coder Dojo down there host Dojocon 2016 down there, they might be able to help you

http://coderdojodl.com/

cormie

Thanks again for all the help everyone. So looks like two suggestions for Lubuntu based on the spec of the machine. The most this machine will be doing is typing up some poetry and maybe playing some music or watching a video on youtube, that's it. No photoshop or video processing or having 40 tabs open in firefox or anything

It's my old machine but I've everything backed up already, so happy to start fresh for my mam. But am I better off nuking the HDD before installing Lubuntu anyway while I'm at it? I have Dariks boot and nuke disc from before when I was getting rid of another laptop.

PropJoe10

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again for all the help everyone. So looks like two suggestions for Lubuntu based on the spec of the machine. The most this machine will be doing is typing up some poetry and maybe playing some music or watching a video on youtube, that's it. No photoshop or video processing or having 40 tabs open in firefox or anything

It's my old machine but I've everything backed up already, so happy to start fresh for my mam. But am I better off nuking the HDD before installing Lubuntu anyway while I'm at it? I have Dariks boot and nuke disc from before when I was getting rid of another laptop.

You could do, but it'd take a bit of work to be able to retrieve anything off the hard drive - if its just for your mam, you can either select to dual boot with XP or wipe everything during the install process. I wouldn't bother with nuking the hard drive unless you had some sensitive stuff on the drive that you don't want anyone finding!

cormie

Thanks a lot. The Dariks boot and nuke was just what I saw suggested on Google to do before selling/giving away a laptop or HDD. It was a simple and quick enough process if I remember right and I think I still have the CD somewhere. Not worried about it with my mam, but I used it for business before so would rather nuke it before giving it to anyone else just incase

PropJoe10

cormie wrote: »

Thanks a lot. The Dariks boot and nuke was just what I saw suggested on Google to do before selling/giving away a laptop or HDD. It was a simple and quick enough process if I remember right and I think I still have the CD somewhere. Not worried about it with my mam, but I used it for business before so would rather nuke it before giving it to anyone else just incase

Makes sense! It'll depend on the size of the hard drive but it probably won't be a huge drive in a machine of that age. It's never any harm to securely wipe hard drives anyway.

cormie

After posting all this about openoffice/libre I remembered that I think it might be better to get my mam to do her writing using Google docs instead. Then she'd be able to access them on her phone/tablet.

I'm not sure if it's possible to have the docs download and sync to a folder so that you can open/edit in the likes of libreoffice, but maybe it'd just be best to do all edits etc direct on google so then you'd have the revision history and I could log in if she ended up deleting everything by mistake to restore things

So maybe the best solution is to have no office software at all... maybe even better is have no laptop at all and just tell her go to the library to get her out of the house

bonzodog2

I'd hate to be typing anything longer than a SMS on a tablet/phone!

cormie

Oh me too, I avoid it at all costs, I was joking about not giving her the laptop after all this, but think to just introduce her to Google docs rather than installing and showing her how to use Libre office would be better in the long run, at least then everything is backed up and recoverable, and can be logged in and "fixed" from anywhere

scamalert

as suggested throw in linux mint on machine put all icons on desktops firefox,libre office etc,and once in a blue moon run apt-get upgrade command to update whole system.

Since people who never used pcs before wont know a difference between os they use,and linux is became user friendly enough to have all necessary applications one would need.

Unknown Soldier

With reference to XP, would decent Internet security software counteract any issues with giving someone an old laptop/PC with XP on it?

Gadgetman496

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

With reference to XP, would decent Internet security software counteract any issues with giving someone an old laptop/PC with XP on it?

The whole bitchn' thing regarding the end of the world if you use XP is totally over exaggerated.

Windows XP was still running on 10.9% of all desktops worldwide as of March 2016, according to stats compiled by Net Applications.

riclad

ON that laptop with 1gig ram , lubuntu will run 2-3 times faster than xp
and its secure and safe .Alot of business pcs are not connected to the web.
Theres no security updates for xp,its not safe to use for credit cards ,banking ,social websites like facebook , as you have to assume that the os will be hacked.
I don,t understand why anyone who can afford pay for broadband ,cant buy a windows 7 laptop.
On adverts.ie or buyandsell cost 150 euro,cpu 2.0ghz,2gig ram,dvdrw drive,
dual core cpu .i would have no desire to use a pc with 1gig ram,
no more than i intend to buy an old nokia 3310 phone that has no apps and no touchscreen.
my laptop with 4gig ram is twice as fast as my older laptop dual core cpu that has 4gig
ram ,my new laptop has a 64bit cpu .
i have 3 old laptops ,i intend to give em to a charity
after i test em properly.dual core cpus, 2.0.
A laptop with 1 gig ram and linux will maybe acceptable to a user
who uses the web for a short time ,a very casual user

ItHurtsWhenIP

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

With reference to XP, would decent Internet security software counteract any issues with giving someone an old laptop/PC with XP on it?

No, it won't. The OS is vulnerable and sooper dooper security software will do nothing to prevent it being exploited. I'd be surprised if any such software would even work on XP now.

ItHurtsWhenIP

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

The whole bitchn' thing regarding the end of the world if you use XP is totally over exaggerated.

Windows XP was still running on 10.9% of all desktops worldwide as of March 2016, according to stats compiled by Net Applications.

It's actually 9.07% and I would expect a large portion of those are ATMs and other embedded devices.

Gadgetman496

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

It's actually 9.07% and I would expect a large portion of those are ATMs and other embedded devices.

Yes, but that was December 2016 and I referenced March 2016

cormie

Thanks again folks. My mam will be a very very casual user so I think my old laptop will be fine It suited me grand for pretty heavy usage 5 years ago so I can't imagine my mam will be needing any more than I ever needed!

PropJoe10

The main problem with using XP now is that most third-party vendors have kicked it into touch in terms of support. You can't run the latest versions of Chrome on it, Firefox is cutting support soon and and Dropbox etc have also pulled the plug. Plus, the actual OS hasn't had security patches for close to 3 years. I dont know why anyone would want to use it.

PrzemoF

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

The whole bitchn' thing regarding the end of the world if you use XP is totally over exaggerated.

Windows XP was still running on 10.9% of all desktops worldwide as of March 2016, according to stats compiled by Net Applications.

The thing is that the days of viruses that used to show a pirate flag, wipe your HDD and play music are over. You might be a part of a bot net without even knowing it for _months_. Or it might be waiting for you to access a particular webpage (paypal, a bank). 10% still runs XP? Great! Now I know where the offers to buy a pallet of mackerel cans from Morocco come from!

cormie

Hmmmm... I just came across this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andromium/the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f

I'm thinking something like this could be the best solution? My mam wouldn't have to learn a whole new system and would be familiar with the UI etc too and then of course everything would always be in the one place, her phone.

cormie

Hey folks, I know a few of you were suggesting Libre Office over open office, I did a quick google myself too and it definitely seems like the more popular one now, but I'm just wondering on compatibility, I know openoffice could open microsoft office files, is it the same with libre office, and can open office and libre office open eachothers files? Does Libre office save as .odt and .ods too or something different?

Also, does anyone know how Libre Office files are compatibility wise with Google? If I was to upload spreadsheets and doc files, can Google recognise the formatting etc?

Any help would be great

PrzemoF

No clue about google docs, but the rest should be fine. odt is LibreOffice "native" format
Check "Application support" section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument

cormie

Thanks a lot, I see in the Application Support, Libre Office, Open Office and Google Docs are all mentioned, so this is great news

cormie

Hey folks, I actually still haven't gotten around to sorting this out yet, but I've recently learned that Chromebooks have their own OS, I always just thought they were a type of laptop from Google. Anyway, I see you can put Chrome OS on old laptops too, not just chromebooks, and thinking maybe this would be a better option since my mam is already familiar with Android and she really only needs it for documents which Google docs would suit fine for?

PropJoe10

cormie wrote: »

Hey folks, I actually still haven't gotten around to sorting this out yet, but I've recently learned that Chromebooks have their own OS, I always just thought they were a type of laptop from Google. Anyway, I see you can put Chrome OS on old laptops too, not just chromebooks, and thinking maybe this would be a better option since my mam is already familiar with Android and she really only needs it for documents which Google docs would suit fine for?

I'm not altogether sure what ChromeOS is like in terms of hardware support for old laptops, but you could definitely give it a shot. I think if it were me, I'd probably go for some sort of lightweight distro like Lubuntu, Zorin Lite or Peppermint. But if you find ChromeOS to be good for this, report back and let us know! :cool:

Johnboy1951

Really, I am surprised that in the 10 months of this thread and the various suggestions, you have not at least downloaded a few of the suggested operating systems and run them from optical media or USB drive.

At the very least do that much so you have some idea what is being suggested!

cormie

Thanks for the input, I know I know, I should have just done that alright. I did attempt to once and it was a bit long winded and I got sidetracked at the time so put it off. Then when I found out Google had an actual OS, I thought it might work well for my mam considering she's somewhat familiar with android and already set up with a lot of Google services.

My intention with any OS I was gonna put on it anyway, was to just have a shortcut on the desktop to open Google docs as she just wanted it for doing documents and thought a service that automatically saves and syncs to her phone would be best.

the Chrome OS does that and then also has all the other stuff she's familiar with so I've got it installed now on the old laptop, via www.neverware.com and so far it seems like it might suit her well

me_irl

cormie wrote: »

Hey folks, I actually still haven't gotten around to sorting this out yet, but I've recently learned that Chromebooks have their own OS, I always just thought they were a type of laptop from Google. Anyway, I see you can put Chrome OS on old laptops too, not just chromebooks, and thinking maybe this would be a better option since my mam is already familiar with Android and she really only needs it for documents which Google docs would suit fine for?

Not sure if you've tried this one already, but I recommend using RemixOS

http://www.jide.com/remixos-for-pc

You can still install the Word, Excel, etc apps via Google Play.

Johnboy1951

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for the input, I know I know, I should have just done that alright. I did attempt to once and it was a bit long winded and I got sidetracked at the time so put it off. Then when I found out Google had an actual OS, I thought it might work well for my mam considering she's somewhat familiar with android and already set up with a lot of Google services.

My intention with any OS I was gonna put on it anyway, was to just have a shortcut on the desktop to open Google docs as she just wanted it for doing documents and thought a service that automatically saves and syncs to her phone would be best.

the Chrome OS does that and then also has all the other stuff she's familiar with so I've got it installed now on the old laptop, via www.neverware.com and so far it seems like it might suit her well

glad you eventually got the finger out

Hopefully it will suit her and work out well

cormie

me_irl wrote: »

Not sure if you've tried this one already, but I recommend using RemixOS

http://www.jide.com/remixos-for-pc

You can still install the Word, Excel, etc apps via Google Play.

Never heard of this, definitely sounds interesting, but installing it standalone looks crazy complicated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7FgiaXDrHg


Also, one of the comments says it's discontinued now and the guy is suggesting to use Phoenix instead?

http://www.phoenixos.com/en/download_x86