Does any mechanic know?

casscass4444

Hi.just wondering does anyone know anything about these issues I'm having.
Long story short it's a 1.3 cdti opel combo.snapped a heater plug trying to change it.other 3 were fine easy to change.left broken heater plug in and took lead off it so it won't short the relay.
Sprayed oil around threads of broken one with engine running and doesn't seem to be any blow around it.
Issue is the first start of the day after say 8 hours parked it takes a lot of cranking to fire it.could heat it on the key 4 times and still hard to start.nearly sounds lazy cranking.strange thing is that it is perfect then for the rest of the day.starts on the button.
Would the fact that one plug not working stop it from first starts every day.do they need all 4 working.other 3 were tested lately and they are fine.plume of smoke out of it after she finally starts in the morning.has anyone seen this before.i can't understand how she's perfect to start all day but a nuisance to get going in the morning.opel diagnostics on it a month ago and they said turbo gate seized and fixed it.nothing else showed up.she puts up the odd spanners light now and again since but drives fine.cheers

Polo_Cluvie

I'm not a mechanic but the broken heater plug is definitely linked to your starting issue first thing in the morning. It's firing on 3 cylinders only and the smoke on cranking is the unburnt fuel from that cylinder firing out the exhaust. Go to a good indy and get that broken heater plug sorted before this prob gets terminal

Stravos Murphy

It should start pretty well on three, any chance you shorted out the feed to plugs and it's getting no power to plugs or you bought a Lidl set from micks?
Long and the short of it get it sorted as you will do damage to the liners injected diesel into cold cylinder.

jca

If the three plugs are working it should fire up straight away, maybe be a bit lumpy until the fourth cylinder got going. I'd say the battery is on its last legs or the starter is getting lazy. If you could leave it parked overnight on a hill and just heat it and then try starting it with a roll. Is the engine in good condition, plenty of poke, not burning oil etc?

Stravos Murphy

How can a lazy starter contribute to the ops situation?

jca

"Nearly sounds lazy" in the original post. The engine is turning over too slowly and the heat being generated by compression/ heater plugs is being lost by the time the fuel is injected.

casscass4444

Thanks.asked a few different lads who are at cars for a living. The plugs in it are beru and supposed to be a good brand.
Might try sticking a new battery in it.
Other suggestions I got were to change the hp pump as the diesel might be flowing back when parked up.
Pump on tank can be heard pumping when key is turned on so that one should be ok.
Another lad said change starter for one with a faster crank.
The mechanic that does my work reckons it's pig of a job to take out broken plug.reckons he would have to pull off the head.another lad reckons to try welding nuts to top of plug but it's alloy tip as far as I know.hard to know.

casscass4444

jca wrote: »

If the three plugs are working it should fire up straight away, maybe be a bit lumpy until the fourth cylinder got going. I'd say the battery is on its last legs or the starter is getting lazy. If you could leave it parked overnight on a hill and just heat it and then try starting it with a roll. Is the engine in good condition, plenty of poke, not burning oil etc?

Engine just had full service.also got new egr valve as it was stuck open and new thermostat.she never burned oil.oil used to be dirty when changed but probably from egr stuck.wastegate recently stuck causing overboost and limp mode but that's fixed now and she goes like a rocket once you get her started.its frustrating

Stravos Murphy

It was pure carelessness to shear off the plug in the first place. I would be getting the mechanic to pony up to resolve the situation.

casscass4444

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

It was pure carelessness to shear off the plug in the first place. I would be getting the mechanic to pony up to resolve the situation.

Couldn't help it stravos to be fair. I was there when it happened.engine was hot and he is a diesel mechanic for 40 years.plug turned a fraction and then broke on the inside of the plug.threads on top are still intact but inside body just turns.no leak on threads.these things happen.just looking for ideas from people who may have seen this before

dieselbug

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

It was pure carelessness to shear off the plug in the first place. I would be getting the mechanic to pony up to resolve the situation.

Glow plugs shearing are a fact of motoring and can be expensive to remove.

Are the glow plugs actually being activated? problems with the relay on these is not uncommon and don't go throwing parts like hp pumps at it without a proper diagnosis.

casscass4444

Cheers diesel bug.yeah mechanic tested the 3 functioning plugs and they are glowing red at the tips.how big of a job is it to take off the head and is it easy to remove plugs with head on a bench.
What have you to replace afterwards.presume 4 plugs while it's off and head gasket.have you to get it skimmed then or what else do you need to replace to put it back and running.thanks

zilog_jones

I know it's not the same engine but I was having the same symptoms with my Peugeot 406 2.0 HDi. In the summer it would be fine, but in winter cold starts would take a few seconds of cranking, followed by a cloud of smoke (but I think that's expected from extended cranking).

Tried new glow plugs, reconditioned starter - no improvement. More powerful starter helped a bit but not much. Actually with that engine (DW10 TD) the glow plugs don't do any pre-heating unless it's below zero so that was a waste of time and money (maybe check the pre-heat condition specs for yours? Was in Haynes manual for mine).

Eventually I had trouble with an exhaust leak in the engine bay (getting into the cabin, lots of fun!) - the EGR valve was completely banjaxed, stuck open and some seal had melted or something. I got it disconnected and blanked and my cold starting issues were more or less gone. Not all engines will work with the EGR valve disconnected/blanked without complaining (some need some ECU reconfiguration or remap), so maybe try and find out what will work with yours. Terrible for NOx emissions too , but that's not tested in the NCT.

dieselbug

casscass4444 wrote: »

Cheers diesel bug.yeah mechanic tested the 3 functioning plugs and they are glowing red at the tips.

What I meant was,, when the glow plugs are requested to heat by the cars management system, does this actually happen.
A garage with decent diagnostics will be able to test if this works and can test the egr system also. Much cheaper than removing the head if it's not necessary.

Waterson

I think your man is bang on with the suggestion of fuel returning to the tank overnight, probably due to a failure of high pressure pump check valve. If your fuel feed line on the low pressure input side of the system is transparent plastic you might be able to observe a vapour lock in the morning after it has sat up overnight. The cure would be to splice into this line a one way check valve, available at most good auto factors which would prevent the fuel leeching back the system. €20 or less. DefinitEly should start on 3 plugs in the balmy weather.

zilog_jones

Waterson wrote: »

I think your man is bang on with the suggestion of fuel returning to the tank overnight, probably due to a failure of high pressure pump check valve. If your fuel feed line on the low pressure input side of the system is transparent plastic you might be able to observe a vapour lock in the morning after it has sat up overnight.

I would regularly see air in the lines as you describe (input to HP pump), but my car had a primer bulb and using that would make no difference with cold start problems. Again, different engine (no lift pump in mine) but same symptoms.