Peep sights

minktrapper

I am looking for information on peep sights.

Cass

Anything in particular?

minktrapper

Cass wrote: »

Anything in particular?

Not really. I was in Blueball rifle range one time and I was chatting to a man with a .22 target rifle. He was using peep sights I think. The front sight had a magnification of 1.5 with a cross hair on it. The rear sight was a peep sight. Am I correct in my description. What is the advantage of these sight's over telescopic sights.

FISMA.

minktrapper wrote: »

The front sight had a magnification of 1.5 with a cross hair on it.

minktrapper wrote: »

The rear sight was a peep sight.

Ok...

minktrapper wrote: »

Am I correct in my description.

I think there's something missing.

The term peep sights, like those on many Enfields, usually refers to iron sights. The rear sight has an opening and at the front there is some type of blade. I doubt this is what you are referring to.

I also doubt you're referring to a red dot sight on a rifle that still had its iron sights.

Maybe a diopter sight?

minktrapper

How does a diopter sight work/function.

Cass

minktrapper wrote: »

Not really. I was in Bluebell rifle range one time and I was chatting to a man with a .22 target rifle. He was using peep sights I think.

I think FISMA is right with the name, diopter is probably what you are talking about? I call them either peep or aperture sights.

The front sight had a magnification of 1.5 with a cross hair on it.

They do come with various mags, and inserts which can be changed.

The rear sight was a peep sight. Am I correct in my description.

I call them peep sights too. I call the ones FISMA described on say Lee Enfield as iron sights. Not sure if its right, but it works for me.

What is the advantage of these sight's over telescopic sights.

Depends on the shooting you're doing.

I've only seen one other person use them who is not into target shooting. Every other set i've seen have been on an ISSF rifle.

You have similar adjustments with aperture sights as you would with a scope, but little to no magnification.

I had a set on a 6.5 Sauer some years back (came with the rifle), but rarely used them. Kept the front sight on, no mag, and removed the rear sight in lieu of a scope.

I've had a go with them a few times when the lads shooting ISSF were at it. You line up the rear sight, front sight then the circular target into concentric circles and when you have them all lined up you fire. That is fairly basic description, but its as much as i know.

minktrapper

Would I be correct in saying that diopter sights have no glass/magnification and are just a peep hole. So I am correct in saying the front sight had a cross hair and some magnification.

FISMA.

minktrapper wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying that diopter sights have no glass/magnification and are just a peep hole. So I am correct in saying the front sight had a cross hair and some magnification.

I think so.

From its setup, it seems to me that the diopter is designed for precision shooting at short ranges, generally speaking.

The rear sight is just an aperture - a small opening and the front sight has the magnification.

The setup offers the advantage of minimizing parallax. The rear sight is forcing your eye inline with the optical axis, hence, minimizing parallax.

No scope can completely remove parallax, even those with parallax adjustment. You eventually figure this out when shooting 1000ya.

The same effect would be beneficial for short range precision shooting.

Ideally, a line drawn from the center of the target to your eye, would also go through dead center of both front and rear sights or scope. In this case, there is no parallax. However, getting your cheek weld that perfect every time is difficult to achieve.

The problem of parallax is focal point vs focal plane.

Of course, your scope has more lenses than the above. Perhaps, a dozen or so. More importantly, the incoming light will not be at as steep an angle shown above. Far more shallow and subtle. However, I think the diagram is useful to explain parallax and more importantly, how to defeat it. Which again is the purpose of the diopter.

So let's pretend that in the above image we're looking at the eye-piece lens and light is coming from the target to our eye, from left to right.

Unlike rangefinders, rifle scopes have eye relief. That is, the point at which parallel rays focus is about two inches behind the last lens. This prevents the scope from hitting the user.

We're all probably familiar with the focal point. If only it were that easy. In reality, there's a focal plane, not a point, and that's the problem!

From the above image, you can slide your eye up and down this plane. While doing so you will perceive the target moving with respect to the crosshair. Of course, the target is not in motion, you're getting parallax.

The effect is subtle, not a problem for hunting. However, step out to 1000ya and you'll see the problem.

In hunting all you need is accuracy - hit the 8" target, not precision. In competition, you better be accurate and precise - hit the bullseye and get all 10shots as close as possible to each other.

In practice, I have learned to mount and adjust my benchrest scopes to achieve the diopter effect. If you ever see someone with a scope that is mounted as far forward as possible, they're probably doing the same thing.

minktrapper

I understand the above diagram but maybe a simpler diagram would be more helpful for others. Some of the older rifles have their telescopic sight's mounted mid way on the rifle. I always wondered why this was the case. Should we be going back to this method.

riffmongous

minktrapper wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying that diopter sights have no glass/magnification and are just a peep hole. So I am correct in saying the front sight had a cross hair and some magnification.

No crosshair, as Cass says above it's a set of concentric circles you have to line up. I did my first shooting with one as part of a uni course, and I didn't particularly like them at the time, although I'd like to try them out again now

Looks something like this, although ours didn't have the horizontal bars iirc

minktrapper

Is the dot in the centre the target and all the rest the sight.

riffmongous

minktrapper wrote: »

Is the dot in the centre the target and all the rest the sight.

Yep, the dot is the black center of the paper target, scores 4-10 on the ones we used

minktrapper

4-10. So the black dot is not the centre or the target. The centre of the target would be 10 I presume. What diameter is the 10.

riffmongous

minktrapper wrote: »

4-10. So the black dot is not the centre or the target. The centre of the target would be 10 I presume.

Yeah, looks like the attachment, but since it's not in focus when you are aiming and the magnification is so small, it just looks like a black circle

What diameter is the 10.

The outer circle is 1cm and the inner 0.5cm

minktrapper

So approximately how wide is the whole target. From one side to the other. As in the width of the 1 ring.

riffmongous

minktrapper wrote: »

So approximately how wide is the whole target. From one side to the other. As in the width of the 1 ring.

I measured it at 15.5cm, the black area (which doesnt line up exactly with the 4) is ~11.4cm

tac foley

FISMA. wrote: »

Hey, that's my K31 and SP sight set up!

tac

minktrapper

riffmongous wrote: »

I measured it at 15.5cm, the black area (which doesnt line up exactly with the 4) is ~11.4cm

Thanks for your help riffmongous. You have explained a lot. The photo of the target was a great help.

riffmongous

minktrapper wrote: »

Thanks for your help riffmongous. You have explained a lot. The photo of the target was a great help.

Happy to be of some help, one last important number to mention is that these targets were for 50m distance

extremetaz

I use an Anschutz 6805 sight set on my Bullseye rifle - very fond of the setup and wouldn't even consider anything else in that application; As Cass alludes to earlier though, they're mainly a 'target shooter' thing and my background is ISSF 10m air, so they're what I'm used to in the first place.

tac foley

Don't imagine that such sights are only suitable for shorter ranges - I shoot a 7.5, and .308 and a 6.5 out to 900m with a set of Centra/Gehmann diopter sights.

tac