Sister lost at birth.

LegacyUser

Hi,

Hopefully this won't be too long a post. Back in the 70s as I was a toddler my younger sister died during delivery. I only found out about it as I was older. I have no recollection myself. As I grew up I would ask my mother more details. Basically, my sister was perfectly healthy, supposedly, and everything was going well during labour, and sorry for details but she came out blue and passed away. My mother never received a cause of death or even a death certificate. I know this will be frustrating to readers, and it is for me too, but my parents never pursued it further. As I've grown up I worry often there may have been negligence during delivery and but it's quite upsetting for my parents and they just want to leave it. I'm unsure if I can even investigate it myself without their input, either legally or morally. Or even when to start. I don't know, maybe on the off chance someone has experienced similar?

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If you have her name and date of death you can order a death certificate, https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/bdm/Certificates/

LegacyUser

Are you simply interested to know exactly what happened, or are you also planning on persuIng legal action of some sort?
Your parents are of a different generation& may not want to reopen old wounds. They lived through that trauma...tread very carefully with their emotions.

racso1975

As above. If you want something official for you or to know where she may be buried for you then that's OK. Your parents have been very very clear with you on this so please respect that.

Ursus Horribilis

This sounds like it has become something of a fixation for you. Be careful you don't allow it to take over your life.

I see (on second reading - I missed it first time) that they want you to leave it. Why are you disrespecting their wishes? They're the ones who lived through this trauma at the time and found a way to live with the heartbreak and devastation.

Don't trample all over their wishes in your desire for retribution.

Big Bag of Chips

Anonoposter wrote: »

I know this will be frustrating to readers, and it is for me too, but my parents never pursued it further.

Why would it be frustrating to anyone else why another couple did not pursue the circumstances around their still birth? Why would it be any of our business? Your mother probably knows more details than she's sharing with you. She was there after all. It's painful for her. She doesn't like discussing it. Unless you've lost a baby yourself you cannot begin to imagine what your mother went through. Times are different now, and people are better able to speak about the loss of a baby. But the emotions a mother feels in 2017 would be exactly the same emotions as a mother would have felt in 1977. That wouldn't be different. The only difference is nowadays we understand the hurt, and we allow people to talk about it.

You were a child and don't remember. You don't remember the pregnancy, birth, funeral and the years of heartbreak that followed. Heartbreak that is still felt. Maybe not quite so raw as it was, but that has never gone away either.

My aunt lost a baby to cot death 34 years ago. A few years ago another of her nieces lost her husband, very young and very suddenly. She told me that our aunt was brilliant with her. Told her that she will never get over her loss but she will find a way to move on and live with it. My cousin was surprised, because our aunt would never have really opened up much about it to us before. But she still lives, every day, with the loss of that baby. Family occassions that they're not there for. Milestones in their life that they never reached.

Maybe it's just the brevity of your post, but you do sound like a dog with a bone. I know you are curious as to what happened, but please, please do not push anything on your parents that they are not comfortable with. Your mother still has a piece of her that is gone forever. Complications can happen at birth for any number of reasons. I think if you want to pursue it, look for a death certificate, see what you can find, but please please, unless your parents come to you, do not go back to them with more questions or your "findings".

It was 40 years ago. Your mother will remember every detail of those days as if they were a couple of weeks ago.

Typer Monkey

I wonder what your desired outcome here is OP? With respect, your parents have asked you to leave it. They've lived with this for 40 years. Their emotional well being and wishes should be paramount. I can't see what positive outcome you expect here by going against their wishes.

Meauldsegosha

OP your parents want to leave it and I think you should respect their wishes and go no further with this.

My parents suffered two stillbirths in the 70's. I was also a toddler at the time. As an adult I spoke with my mother about her loss she was open and honest with me about her experience but I didn't push her for details. To be honest OP I find it odd that you worried about this as you grew up and that you want to investigate it further. This was your parents experience and they dealt/are dealing with it as they think appropriate. Do you often obsess about issues you are on the periphery of?

Perinatal care has come a long way in the last 40 years. In the 70's it was very common for parents not to receive birth or death certs if their child was stillborn. Very often they didn't get to see or hold their child. Thankfully things have changed but just because your parents didn't get a cause of death or a death cert doesn't mean there was negligence involved.

Merkin

It really isn't your place AT ALL to pursue this. I'm also not sure why you wish to or what you hope to achieve and going against the express wishes of your parents would be cruel and insensitive. Leave it be. If your Mum actively wants to pursue it then by all means help but if she does not want to reopen old wounds then you absolutely have to respect her wishes.

LegacyUser

OP I've a similar experience to yourself in that my parents lost a child to still birth but I was born after rather then before like you. I know nothing illegal happened as my mother herself is a doctor so knows it wasn't the fault of the doctors nurses looking after her. She had several miscarriages before and after the still birth and several more after having me. I know all this took a massive emotional toil on her and it's a topic she really really doesn't like to talk about. The only reason we talked at all was as a woman planning to have kids I wanted to know the medical history.

I've never felt any connection to the child that was still born. I've never refereed to them as a missing brother or anything similar. I know friends who do this so I guess it's down to the individual how they view it. I do know it's something my mother doesn't want to discuss in dept as it was a very hard time in her life, she wanted a big family and felt she failed as a woman not being able to do have more kids. I feel very sorry for the pressure she felt put under at that time.

I'm really not sure what you want to find by looking into this. Registering of stillbirth has only been required since 1995 so there may not be that much information and also consider your parents and their wishes - how would your mother feel if told something related to her either genetics or lifestyle (age, diet etc) contributed to the death of their child.

You need to look at birth statistics for that time period (1960s and 1970s) and understand the improvements in the health sector that have taken place since then. With the tests they had at the time the birth might have looked fine but there may well have a underlying genetic condition that caused the still birth - remember Irelands Infant mortality rate in 2015 was 3.3 - in 1975 it was 20 and in 1965 it was 28.60 - we've come an awful long way.

LegacyUser

Hi,

So basically I'm curious as to what happened. I've no interest in legal battles. I haven't done anything yet, just posted in his forum about what's in my head. Dog with a bone is an odd phrase for someone looking for a bit of closure. Living my live I often wonder what my sister would have been like, not sure if that accounts for being obsessed. I only asked about the morality of finding out for myself despite my parents not wishing to know. Anyway, I've got my answers, albeit aggressively, mods can you close thread?

CaptainInsano

Merkin wrote: »

It really isn't your place AT ALL to pursue this. I'm also not sure why you wish to or what you hope to achieve and going against the express wishes of your parents would be cruel and insensitive. Leave it be. If your Mum actively wants to pursue it then by all means help but if she does not want to reopen old wounds then you absolutely have to respect her wishes.

I think it's pretty obvious he wants to find out happened with a "supposedly healthy baby." Not sure if it's your place to call him cruel, you don't know what the op is feeling.

Off topic but what is with the attacking nature of all the posts in this forum? What a joke.

eviltwin

I'd imagine you won't get anywhere with this OP as its your mother's confidential medical records and you are not legally entitled to know anything about the pregnancy and delivery.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

CaptainInsano

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Why would it be frustrating to anyone else why another couple did not pursue the circumstances around their still birth? Why would it be any of our business? Your mother probably knows more details than she's sharing with you. She was there after all. It's painful for her. She doesn't like discussing it. Unless you've lost a baby yourself you cannot begin to imagine what your mother went through. Times are different now, and people are better able to speak about the loss of a baby. But the emotions a mother feels in 2017 would be exactly the same emotions as a mother would have felt in 1977. That wouldn't be different. The only difference is nowadays we understand the hurt, and we allow people to talk about it.

You were a child and don't remember. You don't remember the pregnancy, birth, funeral and the years of heartbreak that followed. Heartbreak that is still felt. Maybe not quite so raw as it was, but that has never gone away either.

My aunt lost a baby to cot death 34 years ago. A few years ago another of her nieces lost her husband, very young and very suddenly. She told me that our aunt was brilliant with her. Told her that she will never get over her loss but she will find a way to move on and live with it. My cousin was surprised, because our aunt would never have really opened up much about it to us before. But she still lives, every day, with the loss of that baby. Family occassions that they're not there for. Milestones in their life that they never reached.

Maybe it's just the brevity of your post, but you do sound like a dog with a bone. I know you are curious as to what happened, but please, please do not push anything on your parents that they are not comfortable with. Your mother still has a piece of her that is gone forever. Complications can happen at birth for any number of reasons. I think if you want to pursue it, look for a death certificate, see what you can find, but please please, unless your parents come to you, do not go back to them with more questions or your "findings".

It was 40 years ago. Your mother will remember every detail of those days as if they were a couple of weeks ago.

I think it's silly to just say "your mother probably knows more details than she's sharing." You can't possibly know that so why say it? I'm also not sure why you posted a story about cot death? This doesn't offer evidence to how the op's parents are feeling as people respond to different situations completely differently. Implying that his mother is suffering day in day out may not only be inaccurate, but hurtful to the op.

Op, it sounds like you're concerned if there was negligence, and this was indeed quite a dark time for Irish hospitals, cover ups etc. I would see what you can find out by yourself if that's what you want. Don't see this as an issue at all, and not immoral as you put it. This is your sister, I would also respect your parents wishes and not say anything to them. As I'm sure you wouldnt have anyway. All the best op.

Neyite

Mod:

Closing at Op's request.

OP, I'm sorry that you felt attacked. I think posters have been blunt yet helpful with you but I'm really not seeing anyone attacking you.

It may well be that if you yourself are becoming a parent you might find that your parent might open up a bit more about the cause of death (that's what happened with us) You could check for a birth certificate on your own but you wont get anywhere with regard to medical records, indeed if they exist at all after all this time because that has data protection issues for your mother.