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So that's "your thing" now is it?

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  • Thanks all.
    It's going to be epic. Maybe for the wrong reason, but it will be epic!




  • Just adding my best wishes A. Give it your best shot and above all enjoy it.




  • Glad you're making it to the event. Cut the cloth to suit the measure and it can still be a good day for you. All the very best.




  • 26 March: 5.1 miles easy.
    29 March: 4.8 miles easy
    1 April: 4.4 miles with 1 mile at MP
    5 April: 4. miles easy.

    That's the sum total of my taper. At each run I felt my knee after 2-3 miles. Not enough to make me stop, but definitely something. A couple of physio visits at least confirmed that I could run the marathon, would feel my knee, but it would just be an inconvenience.

    7 April: Manchester Marathon

    A quick recap on my Hansons advance plan (18 weeks):
    Weeks 1-6: Perfect. Hit every run and all mileage/
    Weeks 7-9: A random back injury (caught a guy that collapsed on the Luas) meant nearly 3 weeks of rest and easy running totalling around 50 miles.
    Weeks 10-16: Back on plan, but not quite hitting all the runs/mileage.
    Weeks 17-18: As above. A knee issue meant a very aggressive taper.

    650 miles completed for the plan
    Murph_D wrote: »
    Cut the cloth to suit the measure and it can still be a good day for you. All the very best.

    Thanks for this. I had decided to dial back my target to sub 3:30, but I read this on Sunday morning and it confirmed my decision.

    So, a sub 3:30 target. Not a "3:29:59" target, but really just to stick with the pacer until halfway and see how I felt and how the knee was holding up.
    I felt I nailed carb loading and hydration this time so I was confident fuelling wouldn't be my downfall. As usual I had a coffee, porridge and a banana for breakfast. Sipped on a Nuun drink up until 8am when I took my first Maurten gel (a suggestion in the book, to use a gel rather than solids). That was it until the race.

    It's a bit of a walk from the bag drop to the start, but it does give you time to calm down and go over the plan for the first few miles. "Slow start, don't weave, take a gel and water (not the whole bottle) every 3 miles without fail, don't push the pace at all for 13 miles".
    The start pens are something they could really improve on. They check your number going in to make sure you're in the right zone, but then the sides are open so anyone can get in. You get runners standing there with husbands/wives/parents/children 5 minutes before the start. Crazy.

    Miles 1-3: 7:50, 7:49, 7:57
    I lined up behind the 3:29 pacer. A different guy to the one last year that went off at about 3:15 pace so that was good. Quite a big group so I started and stayed about 30m back. Pretty crowded, but that suited me and I was surprised how quick the miles ticked over. So quick that the first water station took me by surprise and I ended up doing a Mo Farah and running back to get a bottle. Have to pay more attention. Starting feeling tightness in my knee at mile 2. Gel and water taken (3).

    Miles 4-6: 7:48, 7:47, 7:52
    Out towards Sale. I can't say I remember too much here, but I was still surprised how quick the miles were ticking over. Still a pain in the knee, but by this stage it seemed to have reached a limit and stayed there. Gel and water again (6).

    Miles 7-9: 7:55, 7:59, 7:47 (10K: 49:04)
    Through some residential areas and still very crowded. I was sure it wasn't this crowded last year. Knee pain still the same, but it's not an issue. Feeling really comfortable and I'm hovering just behind the pacer group. One thing I noticed was the pacer seemed to put a little spurt in coming up to each mile marker. Each mile I watched the group pull away from me a little before they slowed down a bit. Maybe that's a problem with only 1 pacer. Gel and water taken at mile 9. I really don't mind the texture of these Maurten gels as much as I thought I would.

    Miles 10-12: 7:46, 7:44, 7:58
    Out to Altringham and at mile 12 we see the faster runners on their way back. The pacer seemed to push it a bit too fast in 10 & 11. I followed, but I couldn't work out why he would vary pace so much. Still crowded at the mile 12 water station, but I was more organised at this stage. Legs still felt full of running and the knee was becoming less noticeable. Gel and water (12).

    Miles 13-15: 7:45, 7:53, 7:49 (HM 1:43:37)
    Just before 13 miles I moved ahead of the pacer. I didn't want to push anything, but just wanted to open up a gap for some room. Our turn to be the faster runners as we loop back towards Manchester. One thing the crowds seem to do here is narrow the road which means any pacing group has to slow down. Reminds me of the Tour de France (on a smaller scale). Gel and water taken (15).

    Miles 16-18: 7:54, 7:58, 7:51 (30K 2:27:18)
    Knee pain has gone. No pacer to watch now, but there were a few people running with me and we all seemed to be dragging each other along. Not sure we ever really dropped the pacer, but I didn't look back to check. One thing I remember thinking here was how great the Zoom Fly Flyknits are (NOT the 4%). I have never worn a shoe that felt so comfortable from start to finish in a marathon. At marathon pace this far in it really does feel like it's helping you. Gel and water (18)

    Miles 19-21: 7:50, 7:54, 7:50
    Quite sunny now and I could feel the heat. This is the lonely section by Carrington where I fell apart last year, but no such chance this time. I'd locked on to a very strong runner who looked like she was in the zone. I did nothing for 2 miles but follow her feet, never looking more that 10 yards ahead of me.
    Water and last gel take at 21.

    Miles 22-24: 7:58, 8:04, 7:57
    Digging in now and I could feel myself working harder. The female runner had pushed ahead, but by this stage I'm passing people just by keeping the pace up and that's a great feeling. Mile 23 was the first time I felt a breeze against us. It was also the start of a very very minor, but constant incline until the last mile. Normally you'd call it pancake flat, but this far in you start noticing the tiniest elevation. Time for head down again and just get through it. Water at 24, some poured on head this time.

    Miles 25-26.2: 8:04, 7:59 and 7:45 pace for the last bit.
    It's a nice finish here. You seem to see the finish line from a long way back which can work both ways. This time it worked the right way as I just focussed on the gantry and, after checking my watch, pushing enough to come in under 3:28.

    Chip time: 3:27:51

    Legs are in bits today and the knee is very tender.

    Given the interrupted training I'm not sure I could have pushed this one any more. I did feel in control the whole race, but also do not think I could have done anything more over the last 6 miles. At the finish the tank felt pretty much empty. Gels were a revelation, as were the shoes. Hansons plan is definitely something I'll try again, but hopefully I'll be a bit luckier with injuries.

    No running at all for 2 weeks now and I have to concentrate on strengthening hamstrings and glutes.




  • Brilliant result and also what looks like a pretty much perfectly executed race plan; delighted for you.A just reward for the hard work you have put in the last few years. From the Novice thread in 2016 to where you are now is great progress.

    Enjoy the couple of weeks of well deserved rest.


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  • Delighted for you A. Like C said, it's a very impressive progression from where you were back in the DCM 2016 Novices days. Enjoy the recovery!




  • That all sounded so relaxed and no issues at all. Well done Andy, fantastic going. What a time! Congratulations.




  • Well done and nice pacing throughout.




  • Great stuff A. That was a really solid and relatively drama free race...perfect in every way. Well done.




  • Sounds like a drama free and well executed race, well done!
    Might look at Hansons at some stage myself.


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  • Thanks everyone.




  • Good stuff A - you had little choice but to dial back the earlier ambitions. You’ll never know what might have happened if you’d gone out at the original 3:20 (?) target, but I do think you chose the right strategy on the day. You make the race sound easy - and it certainly was ‘drama free’, to quote the above - but you can only push from a position of strength, and you had that. Your awareness of the pacer performance is exemplary, but so was the decision to push on for the time you achieved. Kudos!




  • Thanks D. Yes, I think I'd have had completely different experience had I gone for the original 3:20. As they say in the book "You can't really mess anything up by starting too slow.....".
    Having said that, if training goes well for Dublin there's no doubt I'll give 3:20 a go.




  • Marvellous racing (and pacing) Andy. Those Hanson plans are superb for feeling stronger later in a race. That "back" injury must seem a world away now. Enjoy the well earned downtime.




  • Thanks Denis. The Thursday pace sessions certainly do give you the confidence to keep pushing. I'll probably use the plan again for Dublin.




  • That's kinda mad about the start with public access/interaction, etc. And the pacer thing at the mile markers too. :confused: Sounds like some nice psychological rewards or boost in the final stretch.




  • Ooh an update.........

    A full 12 days off running after Manchester. During this time I was back at the physio to start on a strengthening plan for my hips/glutes, particularly the right. No issues with carrying on running, but S&C is something I've neglected and it's finally caught up with me.

    19 April: 5.2 miles at 8:49
    First run back and the legs certainly felt a bit heavy.

    20 April: 4.5 miles easy at 9:02
    Just getting everything moving again. HR is a bit high at 138. Loss of fitness and/or the great weather is to blame.

    22 April: 6 miles at 9:04

    24 April: 6.8 mile commute at 9:16
    The first run where I've felt anything like energy. Good to get back and also good to run the 4-5 mile incline pretty comfortably again.

    26 April: 7.4 miles at 8:15
    Upped the pace a little bit for this one and felt great. Still feeling the knee after 2 miles, but nothing more than a niggle.

    28 April: 12.1 miles at 9:10
    Thought I'd try a long-ish run. All good again and less of a niggle. Exercises starting to help?

    29 April: 5.1 miles at 8:46

    82 miles for April

    1 May: 3 miles at 7:38
    Started a bit faster on this short one so decided to increase the pace each mile, finishing at 7 min pace.
    Visit to the physio confirmed the strengthening program is working, but I'm now moved on to the next level. A new set of exercises, this time with weights.

    Signed up for Lap of the Gap marathon on 25 May. No goals for this, just for "fun". The first half is daunting, but I'm looking forward to the experience.




  • Erm, neglected this for a bit! Quick summary to catch up.......

    May
    106 miles including Lap of the Gap Marathon. First time I've ran with no time goal and it was great. Didn't find the hills as hard as I expected and finished in 3:45 with a big negative split (to be expected given the course profile). Passed quite a few in the 2nd half, moving from 27th up to 11th, so the fitness was definitely still there from Manchester.

    June to 23rd
    I've done nothing in June apart from easy-ish runs, commutes etc. mostly around 6-7 miles. Total so far is 70 miles for June.

    DCM training starts this week and I'm going back to P&D 55. I'll try and be a bit more disciplined with this log as it does help me focus.




  • Here we go again.......

    Tuesday 25 June: 8 miles with 4m @ LT
    P&D LT pace is meant to be somewhere around 15k-HM pace. With my current HM PB at 7:13 pace I was aiming for around 7:05 for the pace miles. This didn't really work with splits of 6:59, 6:56, 6:50, 7:05. Overall it was comfortable enough, but I'd rather cut the sub 7 miles out at this stage.

    Thursday 27 June: 9 miles GA at avg 9:16 pace
    At the slower end of the GA range, but that suited me with the elevation. I didn't eat enough during the day, nothing in the 5 hours before the run, and really felt drained in the last couple of miles. Need to do better with my preparation!

    Saturday 29 June: 4 miles recovery at avg 9:28 pace
    Very relaxing run. Seems strange doing only 4 miles after the Hanson plan.

    Sunday 39 June: 12 miles LR at avg 8:34
    Ran this one strictly by the book. Started out at 9 min pace and gradually increased to run the last 5 miles around 8:20 pace. Last 2 miles were a bit too fast, but they were downhill.

    33 miles for the week.




  • Playing catch up here, but just to get the runs logged.
    Not sure whether to just write Sunday's race off as one of those days or to read more into it other than just a bad day out. I'll give it another 4 weeks before thinking about my goal marathon time.

    Date|Run|Distance|Notes
    2 Jul|P&D week 2-1: 8m GA|8.11 mi|
    5 Jul|P&D week 2-2: 10m GA|10.29 mi|
    8 Jul|P&D week 3-1: 11.7m, first 8 at MP (ish)|11.72 mi|Didn't really get going.
    9 Jul|P&D week 3-2: 5.5m recovery|5.56 mi|
    11 Jul|P&D week 3-3: 5m with 4m @ LT|4.99 mi|Hit the pace well
    13 Jul|P&D week 3-4: 5m recovery|5.02 mi|
    14 Jul|P&D week 3-5: 14m MLR|14.00 mi|Started slow, finished strong.
    17 Jul|P&D week 4-2: 4.2m GA/rec|4.19 mi|
    18 Jul|P&D week 4-3: 5.6m GA|5.68 mi|
    20 Jul|P&D week 4-4: 5.7m rec|5.74 mi|
    21 Jul|P&D week 4-5: 15m MLR|15.13 mi|On holiday. Avg 8:52 in the heat.
    23 Jul|P&D week 5-1: 6m with 2.5 @ MP|6.16 mi|Too hot for sessions. Decision to just run easy while away.
    25 Jul|P&D week 5-3: 10m GA|10.29 mi|
    28 Jul|P&D week 5-5: 12m easy MLR|12.57 mi|
    30 Jul|P&D week 6-1: 8m GA|8.04 mi|
    31 Jul|P&D week 6-2: 4m recovery|3.92 mi|
    1 Aug|P&D week 6-3: 10m GA|10.29 mi|
    4 Aug|P&D week 6-5: 16m LR with 8 @ MP effort|16.07 mi|Comfortable enough
    6 Aug|P&D week 7-1: 8m GA.|8.09 mi|
    7 Aug|P&D week 7-2: 4m recovery|4.22 mi|
    8 Aug|P&D week 7-3: 10m with 5m (2+3) @ LT|10.04 mi|Hard to find a decent route. Held the pace well
    10 Aug|P&D week 7-4: 7.5m GA incl 8x80 strides|7.58 mi|
    11 Aug|P&D week 7-5: 18m LR|18.05 mi|Perfect run. Started at 9min, increased over run to finish at 8:13min
    13 Aug|P&D week 8-1: 7m rec|7.19 mi|
    17 Aug|P&D week 8-4: 20m LR|20.03 mi|In UK. Slower run than last week. Felt strong at end.
    20 Aug|P&D week 9-1: 6m rec|6.46 mi|
    21 Aug|P&D week 9-2: 7m GA|7.07 mi|
    22 Aug|P&D week 9-3: 6m easy rec|6.06 mi|
    24 Aug|P&D week 9-4: warm up|2.19 mi|
    24 Aug|P&D week 9-4: Frank Duffy 10 mile|10.09 mi|Started out at 70 minute pace. Gave up on that after 3 miles. Couldn't handle the sun. Finished 1:16:45, 2 minutes outside PB.
    24 Aug|P&D week 9-4: cool down|0.61 mi|
    25 Aug|P&D week 9-5: 5m rec|5.01 mi|Legs felt fine, but then I didn't exactly push it yesterday!


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  • Tough day for most yesterday, to be fair. Especially if you weren't feeling the love from a long way out. Weather wise things should be easier from here on, so I wouldn't go mad revising DCM targets just yet.




  • Started out at 70 minute pace. Gave up on that after 3 miles. Couldn't handle the sun. Finished 1:16:45, 2 minutes outside PB.

    Very similar to myself, was aiming for sub-70, but was flagging by the fourth mile and ended with 1:14:41.




  • Very similar to myself, was aiming for sub-70, but was flagging by the fourth mile and ended with 1:14:41.

    Yeah tough day. A good lesson though to take the conditions into account.




  • Week 10:

    27 Aug: 8 mile GA commute at 9:09 avg.
    Nothing taxing. Kept pace and HR relaxed and steady.

    28 Aug: 14.4 mile MLR commute at 8:55 avg.
    Followed canal from work to pick up DCM route at Crumlin. Picked up the pace a bit for middle 7 from Walkinstown roundabout to a bit past Roebuck Rd. Felt good. Strange how that drag on Crumlin Rd looks and feels flat when it's only 3 miles into hour run.




  • 30 Aug: 5.1m rec at 9:28
    Late lunchtime run down the canal and back.

    31 Aug: 8.2m rec at 9:25
    HR stayed nice and low on this one, 127 avg.

    1 Sept: 7.2m with 5 at MP
    Ran the usual Sandyford loop. Planned to run 14 miles with the final 12 at marathon pace, but bad preparation meant I was in urgent need of a toilet. Decided to call it a day and drive home. The pace miles I did went pretty well at 7:33 avg.

    43 miles for the week
    175 miles for August




  • 2 September: 7 miles recovery at 9:29. Avg HR 121
    A very easy local loop. Moved Tues/Weds runs forward to work around travel plans later in the week. I've noticed my HR is lower the last few weeks, hopefully a sign that training is working.

    3 September: 9.5 miles with middle 6 at LT. Avg HR 149
    Took a long lunch for this. Warmed up until Sandymount and then ran 6 miles total out to Blackrock and back at (P&D) LT pace. P&D suggest this is 15K-HM pace and I suppose this was, but honestly I found it really tough for the last 2 miles. I had skipped the planned rest day on Monday and maybe that had something to do with it.
    LT splits 7:10, 7:05, 7:14, 7:16, 7:06, 7:15

    7 September: 10.4 miles GA at 9:02. Avg HR 128
    Plan was to run 12 miles MLR on Friday followed by 5 recovery on Saturday. Travelling on Friday put paid to that so I decided that 10 on Saturday would be a decent run to tire the legs a little for Sunday's long run. Really comfortable and very pleased again with HR.

    8 September: 21 miles (progression?) at 8:42 avg. Avg HR unknown!
    Not sure what happened to my watch, but it didn't record any HR for the whole run. Rebooted after I finished and it's working now. Maybe it's on its way out?
    For the run itself I structured it to follow P&D guidance to start at the slower end of the range, increasing gradually to run the last 5 at the faster end. So, plan was to increase pace by 10 seconds every 3 miles. I also wanted to hit each mile pace regardless of hills, speeding up a little downhill and naturally slowing uphill. Pretty important to feel comfortable with this approach given the profile of DCM.
    Managed to hit all required paces and I felt nice and strong for the whole run. Took water with me. Stopped at 9 miles to refill and bought a banana. No gels today.
    I was still over half a mile from home after 20 miles so extended to 21 as a cool down.

    48 miles for the week
    1,115 for 2019




  • 10 September: 6 miles with 5x600m at 5k pace
    Paces were 6:46, 6:47, 6:39, 6:39, 6:47. Didn't feel too bad, but it shouldn't really at that distance.

    11 September: 12 miles easy commute. Avg pace 9:11, Avg HR 133
    The long way home. Up to the KCR, DCM route to Roebuck then on up to Stepaside.




  • 10 September: 6 miles with 5x600m at 5k pace
    Paces were 6:46, 6:47, 6:39, 6:39, 6:47. Didn't feel too bad, but it shouldn't really at that distance.

    11 September: 12 miles easy commute. Avg pace 9:11, Avg HR 133
    The long way home. Up to the KCR, DCM route to Roebuck then on up to Stepaside.

    I always find it odd when runners post pace rather than rep times for speed sessions. Why not just the raw numbers i.e. 2:30, 2:29 etc.? Might be wrong but I think most people who do reps understand those number better.

    Nice session!




  • Murph_D wrote: »
    I always find it odd when runners post pace rather than rep times for speed sessions. Why not just the raw numbers i.e. 2:30, 2:29 etc.? Might be wrong but I think most people who do reps understand those number better.

    Nice session!

    Ah thanks, I was asking myself which was best as I was writing it. Time makes sense actually as mile pace gives the impression of larger deviations. I even put the wrong pace down for the last rep!

    Anyway, for this session: 2:31, 2:32, 2:29, 2:29, 2:29


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  • September 13: 5 miles recovery. Avg pace 9:27, avg HR 123

    September 14: 6.2 miles with middle 4 at MP
    The plan said tune-up race, but I had nothing booked. Had great plans to give it a lash at the parkrun, but a few beers on Friday knocked that on the head. With other stuff going on I decided on a short marathon pace run, at least to tire the legs a bit for Sunday.
    MP splits were 7:29, 7:30, 7:24, 7:23. All a bit too fast really based on a 3:20 marathon (should have been closer to 7:34)

    September 15: 17 miles easy. Avg pace 9:03, avg HR 124
    Rained from start to finish, but not too heavy so great conditions for a long run. Felt more like a long recovery run really.

    46 miles for the week.


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