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So that's "your thing" now is it?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Hopefully nothing too serious with the back A you have had some start to this training block....hopefully this is only a bump in the road
    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Jesus I hope it clears up quickly for you. To come at a time when you are training so brilliantly is rotten luck. Hopefully it passes as suddenly as it happened.
    aquinn wrote: »
    S*it Andy, what's the plan of attack? Are you ok?

    Thanks. Hard to know with back trouble. It's feeling a little better, but that could be the heat pad/nurofen combination. A couple of days off won't do me any harm at this stage so I'll start panicking on Monday if it hasn't improved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,799 ✭✭✭ OOnegative


    Thanks. Hard to know with back trouble. It's feeling a little better, but that could be the heat pad/nurofen combination. A couple of days off won't do me any harm at this stage so I'll start panicking on Monday if it hasn't improved.

    Any consolation, I twinged my back 4-5 weeks ago & it cleared up quickly enough. Cost me 10 days off but I was probably overly cautious with it. Have been doing press-ups daily since to try strengthen the area. Hope it clears up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭ denis b


    Bad luck Andy but well worth giving yourself a chance for a day or two, not that you have much choice! Have had the same experience once or twice, and its always the car. Fingers crossed that all is well in 2-3 days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭ Wubble Wubble


    Best of luck with the recovery A. Frustrating especially when training is going well, but a few days off may make things much easier long term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Soooooo..............

    A frustrating few weeks, but things are hopefully looking up.

    21-27 Jan: 3 easy runs totalling 16 miles. No pain while running, but very stiff the next day.

    28 Jan - 3 Feb: 3 more easy runs totalling 15 miles. Back feeling better every day, but still not perfect. I made the decision to ease back into it until the first strength week.

    4-10 Feb: More like it. 5 runs, again all pretty easy, totalling 38 miles. This included 2 commutes and a 9.7m mile run on Thursday at the faster end of easy. It was great to get through that one.

    11 Feb: 6.5 mile easy commute at 9:16. Just seen now that totalling time was exactly 1:00:00.

    This week is the first week of the strength phase. Planned mileage is a bit high (61 miles) given the last few weeks. I don't really want to make that jump so I'm cutting back a little on each run. I'll try the session tomorrow which should be 6 x MP-10 off 400m recovery, however I'll probably just do 4. Same for the MP "tempo" run on Thursday, I'll cut that a little as well......as long as tomorrow is ok.

    Longer term, I'll see how the next few weeks go, but I'll probably have to revise my target for Manchester. I am starting to worry now that I have a lack of long runs. I know that's the general idea of Hansons, but I'm now missing the cumulative fatigue part of the plan.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ Huzzah!


    Soooooo..............

    A frustrating few weeks, but things are hopefully looking up.

    21-27 Jan: 3 easy runs totalling 16 miles. No pain while running, but very stiff the next day.

    28 Jan - 3 Feb: 3 more easy runs totalling 15 miles. Back feeling better every day, but still not perfect. I made the decision to ease back into it until the first strength week.

    4-10 Feb: More like it. 5 runs, again all pretty easy, totalling 38 miles. This included 2 commutes and a 9.7m mile run on Thursday at the faster end of easy. It was great to get through that one.

    11 Feb: 6.5 mile easy commute at 9:16. Just seen now that totalling time was exactly 1:00:00.

    This week is the first week of the strength phase. Planned mileage is a bit high (61 miles) given the last few weeks. I don't really want to make that jump so I'm cutting back a little on each run. I'll try the session tomorrow which should be 6 x MP-10 off 400m recovery, however I'll probably just do 4. Same for the MP "tempo" run on Thursday, I'll cut that a little as well......as long as tomorrow is ok.

    Longer term, I'll see how the next few weeks go, but I'll probably have to revise my target for Manchester. I am starting to worry now that I have a lack of long runs. I know that's the general idea of Hansons, but I'm now missing the cumulative fatigue part of the plan.

    Sorry to hear this. Would you consider dropping back to the beginner plan? At this stage, I think it's much the same as the advanced, just with slightly less mileage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Sorry to hear this. Would you consider dropping back to the beginner plan? At this stage, I think it's much the same as the advanced, just with slightly less mileage.

    Good idea, thanks. You're right, the sessions looks the same, but there's a drop in mileage, mainly over the easy days.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 17,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The Black Oil


    Ah the 'cumulative fatigue' side of things...


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    To continue the week.......

    12 Feb: 4 x 1 mile @ MP-10, + wu/cd. Total 7.5 miles
    The first strength session of the plan. Should have been 6x1, but this was more of a test run for the back after last weeks easy running. Overall it felt great, but then again my legs were fresh after the easy few weeks.

    3rd split was a bit fast.
    Splits: 7:29, 7:25, 7:19, 7:24

    14 Feb: 8 miles @ MP, + wu/cd. Total 10.85miles
    I had planned to run only 6 miles at marathon pace, but the miles just ticked by so I did the full 8. Only started feeling it in the legs the last mile.

    Splits: 7:33, 7:33, 7:24, 7:37, 7:33, 7:39, 7:37, 7:37

    15 Feb: Back felt a little stiff so I skipped the easy run.

    16 Feb: 7.5 miles easy at 9:18. Avg HR 124
    Kept this one nice and easy. Back was fine.

    17 Feb: 16 miles at 8:31. Avg HR 144
    Took a trip out to PP so I could get a good run in without constantly stopping at lights etc. Beautiful day and the park was packed. Very windy in places, but it wasn't as bad as I thought when I started. Two loops of the park plus the finishing loop from the race series HM (Acres Rd was a tough one into the wind). The first 3 miles were a bit sluggish, but once I warmed up it was comfortable enough.

    48 miles for the week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    18 Feb: 6.5 easy miles at 9:23. Avg HR 135.
    Nice and easy. Trying out New Balance Beacons as I read some good reviews.

    19 Feb: Strength session. 4 x 1.5m at MP-10 off 800 rec, + wu/cd. Total 11.7 miles.
    Target pace here was 7:28. Comfortable enough really.
    Splits: 7:21, 7:24, 7:24, 7:25

    21 Feb: 9 miles at MP + wu/cd. Total 11 miles.
    A tough run, but happy to keep the pace and HR pretty steady.
    Splits: 7:35, 7:31, 7:33, 7:31, 7:44, 7:37, 7:37, 7:37, 7:28

    23 Feb: 10.4 miles easy at 9:19. Avg HR 128
    Took a rest day on Friday and, with a weekend of DIY ahead I managed to get out in the morning. Feeling great, no issues with back.

    24 Feb: 6:5 miles at 8:53. Avg HR 135.
    Didn't finish DIY until late on Sunday and I was aching. I was going to skip the planned 10 mile run altogether, but fancied heading at at around 9pm. Nice run, but maybe not my smartest decision.

    46 miles for the week

    25 Feb: 8 mile easy commute at 9:21. Avg HR 129
    Second run in the Beacons. Felt absolutely great on this for the first 7 miles. In the last mile I started noticing my right achilles felt a bit tight. Didn't think too much of it, stretched the calf and finished the run. That evening I was in bits. Not sure if it's the runners (only a 6mm drop) or the DIY, but I had to take Tuesday off and did a lot of rolling and stretching for a few days. I'll put the runners away untl after the marathon as I should really have known better.

    28 Feb: 7.4 miles at 8:40. Avg HR 135
    Definitely no MP session tonight. No pain with achilles during run, but it did feel a bit tight after.

    160 miles for February.

    2 March: 8.8 miles at 9:08. Avg HR 128
    Another rest day on Friday to let everything calm down. The run felt great. No tightness before, during or after.

    3 March: 20 miles at 8:59. Avg HR 138
    Decided after the last week that I needed to get a 20 miler in. Headed out at 9am to try and miss most of the rain. Still got soaked though.
    After 2 very easy miles I increased the pace to around 8:25 for the next 6-7 miles. A couple of very slow miles followed as I shuffled out to Poolbeg Lighthouse and back before increasing pace again. Very happy that I was still strong in the last 5 miles as it was all uphill so a bit of a confidence boost.

    44 miles for the week.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    4 March: 6 miles easy at 9:14. Avg HR 125
    Can't really remeber this one. Must have been pretty uneventful.

    5 March: 2m wu, 2.4m MP-10.
    This should have been 2x3m at MP-10 plus wu/cd. Unfortunately it rained so hard I had to throw in the towel as I passed the car on the first pace section. No harm done though, move on to the next run.

    7 March: 9 miles at MP plus wu/cd. Total 13.1 miles
    The bailed run on Tuesday probably helped here, but the pace felt pretty good the whole way and I paced most of it better than usual, slowing a bit uphill. I'm still not sure if I'll target this pace on the day.

    Splits: 7:38, 7:24, 7:27, 7:37, 7:30, 7:40, 7:31, 7:42, 7:32

    8 March: 6 miles easy at [email protected] Avg HR 127
    2 local loops. All good.

    9 March: 10.5 miles at 9:12. Avg HR 130
    Not too sure really. It was cold and I ran. Felt fine. Out Saturday night for too many pints.

    10 March: 9.8 miles at 8:56. Avg HR 134
    Nearly the same route as yesterday. It was colder, I had a hangover and I ran a bit faster. Felt ok considering.

    50 miles for the week.

    11 March: 6.5 mile easy commute at 9:34. Avg HR 145!
    Pretty sure the watch locked onto cadence for the last mile here. At exactly the point I stopped to cross 2 roads it jumped to 169 and matched cadence all the way home. Stupidly windy near the end. Legs felt very tired.

    12 March: Legs, especially knees, feeling really tired today. Decided I need a rest day so skipped the planned strength session. Hopefully it will help me have another good MP session on Thursday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,201 ✭✭✭ Murph_D


    Why would you be not sure about MP on the day? You chose the MP based on performance (I assume?) You’ve missed some sessions but not a huge amount? I think its better to commit than to waver - take it out anyway and see how it feels. Training at one pace and racing at a lesser one seems like a bit of a waste! It’s going well enough, trust it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Why would you be not sure about MP on the day? You chose the MP based on performance (I assume?) You’ve missed some sessions but not a huge amount? I think its better to commit than to waver - take it out anyway and see how it feels. Training at one pace and racing at a lesser one seems like a bit of a waste! It’s going well enough, trust it.

    It's the usual self-doubt kicking in. A bit earlier than usual probably because of the missed runs in weeks 7-9. On the day I'll more than likely go for it. If I nail tomorrow's session I'll be on a high again and start talking about 3:15! Confidence is a fine balancing act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    14 March: 10 mile MP plus wu/cd. 14m total
    As close to a perfect run as I can tell. Felt comfortable all through. Drizzly rain for the whole run, but that probably helped me.

    15 March: Bad choices. Went for a sneaky lunchtime pint that turned into a bit of a session. No running today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    16 March: 8.2 miles easy at 9:08. Avg HR 130.
    I swear if it rains on me again I'll..............Lovely run until the horizontal rain hit.

    17 March: 20 miles at 8:27. Avg HR 140.
    Another Hansons rule breaker, but I thought I'd run my last long run as a bit of a steady session. Ran the first 2 miles easy before picking the pace up to between 8:10-8:30 for the next 18. Very windy in places, but I felt strong and very relaxed for the whole run. Passed quite a few runners on the route and every single one gave a nod or a wave. Must have been the sun.
    Just noticed that this run had over twice the elevation of the Manchester marathon. I'll remind myself of this on the day.


    49 miles for the week. 3 weeks to go, but not quite taper time. It will be interesting to see how I react to a shorter taper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,201 ✭✭✭ Murph_D


    Is that twice now you’ve substituted the ‘signature’ Hanson 16-mile steady LR for a 20? What’s the thought process behind this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Is that twice now you’ve substituted the ‘signature’ Hanson 16-mile steady LR for a 20? What’s the thought process behind this?

    Looking back at my training so far:
    I hit every run for the first 6 1/2 weeks before injuring my back. In weeks 7-9 I ran 25%, 30% and 25% of the planned total mileage, all easy, no sessions.
    Since then, for the last 6 weeks, I have hit most sessions and have averaged just under 50 miles pw, but this mileage is between 80-90% of what's in the plan. That is semi-intentional by the way. I made my mind up after the injury that I would take an extra day if I felt I needed it.

    The Hanson plan is based on the idea that the 16 mile long run is meant to simulate the last 16 miles of a marathon. The week before is about building a base, and fatigue, for that run. I felt that that I hadn't built up the cumulative fatigue to get the physical and phsychological benefit from a 16 mile run. Yes, that goes against the Hansons ideal, but they also say that a long run should not exceed 3 hours. It's relative to ability and at this stage I am able to complete a 20 mile easy/moderate run in less than 3.

    I've rambled a bit, but the short answer is that I felt, 3 weeks before the marathon, that I would get greater benefit from a longer run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,201 ✭✭✭ Murph_D


    Well I think the method suggests you add miles to the easy runs rather than the SOS workouts if you need to increase mileage. Therefore accumulating more fatigue to bring into the important sessions. Anyway best of luck with the rest of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Thanks.
    Yes, to increase mileage. My problem has been that I've gone the other way and missed mileage that I wasn't able to get back by increasing other easy runs. Sticking to max 30% ratio this week would have meant a 14 mile run and I felt I needed more for my last long run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Ah FFS........

    18 March: 4.9 miles easy at 9:21. Avg HR 127.
    Not much to it really, just a very easy local shuffle.

    19 March: 1m wu, 1.5m MP minus whatever, 0.5m cd. Total 3 miles
    Too much going on so I didn't get out until after 9pm. Plan was for 4x1.5m MP-10, but as it was so late I planned to do 2 local loops with 3x1.5m. About half a mile into the first rep I got the, erm, feeling that I should have gone to the toilet before I left. What followed was me getting faster and faster until the point where I couldn't risk running fast any more.
    Fail to preare and all that. I didn't bother going out for the 2nd loop.

    21 March: 10 miles MP plus wu/cd.
    I was looking forward to this as, despite my troubles on Tuesday, I felt I had a real spring in my step. 2 miles warmup and then just over 4 laps of the business park. It's a testing enough triangle with 1/3 flat, the next 1/3 with around 60ft steady drag followed by a steady descent. Not too bad, but each lap I give myself a pep talk "only 3 more drags to go" etc. Seems to work and I felt pretty comfortable again at this pace. According to Garmin this run has 13ft more elevation than the Manchester marathon so I should see a benefit right? Also had my 2nd and final test with Maurten gels, taking 2 at marathon pace with no issues (that's an expensive dress rehearsal!)
    Splits: 7:34, 7:32, 7:24, 7:36, 7:30, 7:37, 7:29, 7:30, 7:35, 7:29

    22 March: Ah FFS. After such a positive run I woke up with a bit of pain in/on my right knee. No running.

    23 March: 3.5 miles easy. Went out to test the knee on grass. Not too bad, but I could feel it. Feels like a bruise, but I don't want to take a chance that it's more.

    24 March: Knocked the planned 10 mile on the head. I did have a few little jogs while walking the dog and didn't feel anything, but there's nothing to gain at this stage and plenty to lose.

    Only 25 miles for the week. Disappointing as the Hanson plan shouldn't really taper until this Thursday.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭ aquinn


    Are you going to see someone about the knee A? Probably adviseable so you know you're ok rather than rest and see approach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    aquinn wrote: »
    Are you going to see someone about the knee A? Probably adviseable so you know you're ok rather than rest and see approach.

    Yeah I'm booked in tomorrow morning. I'll have another rest day tonight and watch the (not so) mighty England.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭ scotindublin


    Good luck tomorrow.......just be thankful you are not from North of the Border......2 horrendous performances from us over the last few days! Looking forward to proper football being back this weekend!
    Yeah I'm booked in tomorrow morning. I'll have another rest day tonight and watch the (not so) mighty England.


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    Good luck tomorrow.......just be thankful you are not from North of the Border......2 horrendous performances from us over the last few days! Looking forward to proper football being back this weekend!

    Yep, international football is an unwanted distraction!

    All good at the physio. Tight hamstrings meant quads have been doing too much work which pull on this and pulled on that etc. until I felt it on the knee. Hope I wasn't too technical for you there! Anyway, no need to stop running, I have some specific stretches to do for the next
    2 weeks and after the marathon I need to concentrate on strengthening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭ aquinn


    Excellent news, be diligent with those exercises now.

    Very pot, kettle here but anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭ aquinn


    How are you doing? Manchester bound?


  • Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭ Unthought Known


    aquinn wrote: »
    How are you doing? Manchester bound?

    Ooh, long update........

    I will definitely be there. I've been concentrating on stretches and exercises to loosen my quads, hamstrings and glutes. That's been more important than running really, but I'll do one more easy run tonight.
    I was back at the physio on Wednesday and she put me through it (no damage anywhere) before a sports massage. My right quad is dominant which is causing tightness over the knee, but all much looser after the last week. I have specific active stretches to do before the race to get the glutes and hamstrings firing. I'm also taking the foam roller to Manchester!
    I asked the physio straight out and she said to absolutely run. It's not an injury risk, but I should expect some tightness as I tire or lose form. She actually said then that I should run through it if this happens.

    So...I'm running. I'm going to start a little slower than originally planned, but this is also because most of whatever climbing is in the first half.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ Huzzah!


    Ooo, good luck!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,864 ✭✭✭ ariana`


    Hope you have a great run on Sunday :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭ scotindublin


    Good luck A!


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