No insurance, no tax, no NCT - court summons

jon1981

*not looking for legal advice*

Right, a friend ( yes a friend, not me) was done yesterday for not having all of the above. Yes he is a f**king tool, I was extremely disappointed when he confided in my this morning. Not someone I'd expect to be that irresponsible.


Basically he has had no insurance for 4 months, no tax for 6months and no NCT for 8months. I advised him to get a solicitor asap, he has no previous. His excuse is not having the money, which is pretty lame given he has a good job, i think he was just lazy...anyway.

Personally, I think he is f**ked. Anyone have any examples of how f**ked he is?

Vicxas

Do you really need to know, he had the perfect trifecta of stuff Gardai love to prosecute for.

jon1981

Vicxas wrote: »

Do you really need to know, he had the perfect trifecta of stuff Gardai love to prosecute for.

Well he's an absolute mess with the worry. I'm not sure telling him will make it any better but I guess he should know what's likely.

Vicxas

jon1981 wrote: »

Well he's an absolute mess with the worry. I'm not sure telling him will make it any better but I guess he should know what's likely.

Quick google:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/tarbert-man-drove-with-no-insurance-no-tax-and-no-nct-27424068.html

Guy got fined nearly 2k and banned for 2 years.

clement

Talk to a solicitor once he receives summons. If he wants to see it for himself go to the court he is summoned to and watch for similar cases. The penalty points and pending prosecution will make it near impossible to get a quote now do.

jon1981

clement wrote: »

Talk to a solicitor once he receives summons. If he wants to see it for himself go to the court he is summoned to and watch for similar cases. The penalty points and pending prosecution will make it near impossible to get a quote now do.

I was wondering that too, can he get insurance now and continue to drive while he waits for the court case?

jon1981

Vicxas wrote: »

Quick google:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/tarbert-man-drove-with-no-insurance-no-tax-and-no-nct-27424068.html

Guy got fined nearly 2k and banned for 2 years.

I gather the collision would have spiced up the penalty alittle.

endagibson

Get him to check the expiry date on his license. :pac:

clement

Yes he can get insurance now but is legally obliged to disclose the incident when the ask has he any conviction pending. The quote will be crazy especially with the break in cover since his last policy expired

jimgoose

jon1981 wrote: »

I gather the collision would have spiced up the penalty alittle.

That was also four years ago. They're in no humour for it at the moment, I can guarantee you that. :pac:

jon1981

clement wrote: »

Yes he can get insurance now but is legally obliged to disclose the incident when the ask has he any conviction pending. The quote will be crazy especially with the break in cover since his last policy expired

Yeah was thinking the lapse in insurance will do him no favours. What a gob****e to let this happen.

readytosnap

Well hopefully he will get a minimum 2 year ban and a large fine.

Del2005

jon1981 wrote: »

I was wondering that too, can he get insurance now and continue to drive while he waits for the court case?

Yes, until he goes to court he's an unblemished licence. But a lot of companies require the car to have a valid NCT for the policy to be valid and he'll have to pay the back tax.

Assuming that the Gardaí were doing their job correctly they'll have lifted the car, that's €135 and a daily storage charge so he'll need to get it back.

TallGlass

He has hit the combo, tell him best of luck. Ban and a fine.

jon1981

readytosnap wrote: »

Well hopefully he will get a minimum 2 year ban and a large fine.

Thank you but I'm not looking for judgement on here, I'll leave that to the district judge.

jon1981

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes, until he goes to court he's an unblemished licence. But a lot of companies require the car to have a valid NCT for the policy to be valid and he'll have to pay the back tax.

Assuming that the Gardaí were doing their job correctly they'll have lifted the car, that's €135 and a daily storage charge so he'll need to get it back.

Yep it was lifted on the spot.

MarkR

Was this him?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/driver-stopped-for-not-wearing-seatbelt-has-no-licence-insurance-nct-or-tax/ar-BBy5zHG

If they'd no money before, things aren't looking up for them.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/learner-driver-fined-3800-30733970.html

Tell your friend we said Hi, and we're all rooting for him.*








* To be fined to the fullest extent of the law. :-D

jon1981

MarkR wrote: »

Was this him?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/driver-stopped-for-not-wearing-seatbelt-has-no-licence-insurance-nct-or-tax/ar-BBy5zHG

If they'd no money before, things aren't looking up for them.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/learner-driver-fined-3800-30733970.html

Tell your friend we said Hi, and we're all rooting for him.*


* To be fined to the fullest extent of the law. :-D

lol i did check the Gardai twitter feed too and no it's not him.

pilly

Only consolation might be if the paperwork goes by the wayside. I was stopped for tax last year in Cork and never heard anything more. Probably not going to happen in this case though where everything was out of date, I'd imagine the Garda were extremely peed off. Get a good solicitor is the only advice you can give.

GBX

jon1981 wrote: »

Thank you but I'm not looking for judgement on here, I'll leave that to the district judge.

Why only a judge ? You brought it to a public forum where other road users are entitled to their opinion.

MarkR

Just checking on the citizens information site. No NCT is 3 points minimum, and 5 if convicted in court. No licence is a mandatory court appearance, and that's 5 points. So if they do both together, 10 points? Does that sound right?

jon1981

MarkR wrote: »

Just checking on the citizens information site. No NCT is 3 points minimum, and 5 if convicted in court. No licence is a mandatory court appearance, and that's 5 points. So if they do both together, 10 points? Does that sound right?

it was insurance , not license but sounds about right.

Kimbot

MarkR wrote: »

Just checking on the citizens information site. No NCT is 3 points minimum, and 5 if convicted in court. No licence is a mandatory court appearance, and that's 5 points. So if they do both together, 10 points? Does that sound right?

What about no insurance and no NCT.... he's looking at a nice amount of points and fines either way.

jon1981

Solicitor just spoke to him :

"Could be months before the summons arrives but it most definitely will arrive. He said he wouldn't rule out disqualification but that jail time is only in the most extreme cases so not for him. Said the fine would likely be in the low hundreds."

TallGlass

MarkR wrote: »

Just checking on the citizens information site. No NCT is 3 points minimum, and 5 if convicted in court. No licence is a mandatory court appearance, and that's 5 points. So if they do both together, 10 points? Does that sound right?

I think no tax comes with points these days.. As I said he is looking at a ban and a fine TBH, we can't tell you how much, that depends on the judge on the day. He could try talk with the Garda if there is anything that can explain his actions, but I doubt it. Too me if I was the Garda I would be viewing that as not giving any regard to any type of law let alone the rules of the road.

goz83

Holy bejaysus :eek:

Not a good time, considering all the news about banned drivers and all.

Lawyer up

HeidiHeidi

MarkR wrote: »

Just checking on the citizens information site. No NCT is 3 points minimum, and 5 if convicted in court. No licence is a mandatory court appearance, and that's 5 points. So if they do both together, 10 points? Does that sound right?

If you get done for lots of offences that carry penalty points you'll only come away with the points for the offence that carried the most... so in the above example 5 for the no licence. They're not all totalled up and handed to you.

Kimbot

jon1981 wrote: »

Solicitor just spoke to him :

"Could be months before the summons arrives but it most definitely will arrive. He said he wouldn't rule out disqualification but that jail time is only in the most extreme cases so not for him. Said the fine would likely be in the low hundreds."

TBH i would still look at having 2k spare there to pay the fine because it all depends on the mood of the judge on the day tbh.

Bicky bicky

Tell your friend get a car or his old one back tax insure and have it nctd for court date could be a few weeks to few months.

Ask your friends solicitor to plead guilty and for your friend to retain his license but expect a good fine also depends on what part of the country your friend is and also on judge that day.

Sorry I've a question is there any statue of limitations on a no insurance charge(I was done with 9 offences all ran into and only done for no insurance 1000 fine but was allowed keep my licence no points)

Nearly a decade later and it still affects my insurance quote to this day.

CarrickMcJoe

jon1981 wrote: »

it was insurance , not license but sounds about right.

Thought they only gave points for the worst offence, 5 in this case.

Guards really need to up their game as there's too many uninsured drivers out there.

Isambard

MarkR wrote: »

Just checking on the citizens information site. No NCT is 3 points minimum, and 5 if convicted in court. No licence is a mandatory court appearance, and that's 5 points. So if they do both together, 10 points? Does that sound right?

i believe you only get the points for the most serious offence, so 5 maximum it appears.

TeaBagMania

If you want to help your friend you should buy him a nice pair of walking shoes and annual bus pass

MarkR

jonnycivic wrote: »

What about no insurance and no NCT.... he's looking at a nice amount of points and fines either way.

Forgot that one!


No Insurance. 5 points on conviction. Mandatory court appearance. Says Court Fine
No NCT. 3-5 points. €60 fine


Doesn't seem to be points for tax.

If the fine is only in the hundreds, i'll be disappointed to be honest. Not really a fair fine, considering the insurance costs these days.

Is your friend urban / rural? Do they drive for work?

jon1981

MarkR wrote: »

Forgot that one!

No Insurance. 5 points on conviction. Mandatory court appearance. Says Court Fine

[LIST=2]No NCT. 3-5 points. €60 fine


Doesn't seem to be points for tax.

If the fine is only in the hundreds, i'll be disappointed to be honest. Not really a fair fine, considering the insurance costs these days.

Is your friend urban / rural? Do they drive for work?

lives in Dublin, plenty of bus options

jon1981

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Thought they only gave points for the worst offence, 5 in this case.

Guards really need to up their game as there's too many uninsured drivers out there.

Will be far more common with the increasing costs of insurance. Clearly ppl are willing to take risks. My friend has shocked me. He's a professional, good job, never in trouble with the law (until now). completely out of character

BrokenArrows

jon1981 wrote: »

Solicitor just spoke to him :

"Could be months before the summons arrives but it most definitely will arrive. He said he wouldn't rule out disqualification but that jail time is only in the most extreme cases so not for him. Said the fine would likely be in the low hundreds."

Thats kinda the problem right there.
A fine in the low hundreds!!! He has probably saved twice that amount by not paying for those 3 things.

Should be mandatory loss of license and a large fine.

Some people let their tax and nct slip from time to time. It happens. But not having insurance is unacceptable.

jon1981

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Thats kinda the problem right there.
A fine in the low hundreds!!! He has probably saved twice that amount by not paying for those 3 things.

Should be mandatory loss of license and a large fine.

Some people let their tax and nct slip from time to time. It happens. But not having insurance is unacceptable.

It probably will be a higher fine from what I've heard so far.

Atlantic Dawn

jon1981 wrote: »

Will be far more common with the increasing costs of insurance. Clearly ppl are willing to take risks. My friend has shocked me. He's a professional, good job, never in trouble with the law (until now). completely out of character

He will run in to problems getting car insurance, home insurance and even travel insurance in the future, all ask if you have any convictions, he now does so cover will be void if he lies when taking them out.

Winterlong

MarkR wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/learner-driver-fined-3800-30733970.html

Looks like 2 year ban is more or less standard for driving with no insurance. And a 2-300 euro fine.

Jodotman

I had a friend in the last year caught with no insurance. He has commerical insurance and thought he was covered to drive non commerical vehicles which he wasn't. Drove the missus car and went through a checkpoint. Missus didn't have him as a named driver on the car.

Had 10 days or whatsoever it was to produce the insurance but found out he wasn't insured. Court case followed a while later.

Friend had nine penalty points as usually speeding trying to get to work on time. He works all over the country as a electrician for a company, could have a four or five hour commute a lot of days.

Anyway the solicitor said to judge he has 9 penalty points and works all over the country, his daily distances to work, company he works for, new apartment with a kid etc. etc. and how he worked up so may penalty points.

Judge said in court 600 euro fine and six penalty points and no excuse and was foolish for not checking his insurance.

Anyway the last bit of the story the penalty points came in the post, he only got two penalty points added to his license to bring him up to 11 points and got no conviction from the judge. He was a lucky sod!

pilly

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

He will run in to problems getting car insurance, home insurance and even travel insurance in the future, all ask if you have any convictions, he now does so cover will be void if he lies when taking them out.

Lets all hold our horses. He may have been stopped but he hasn't got a conviction as yet.

MarkR

pilly wrote: »

Lets all hold our horses. He may have been stopped but he hasn't got a conviction as yet.

Horse might be a viable alternative. He could enter the exciting world of sulky riding.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

MarkR wrote: »

Horse might be a viable alternative. He could enter the exciting world of sulky riding.

You're getting way too much satisfaction outta this. You should try and find a new hobby yourself.

MarkR

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

You're getting way too much satisfaction outta this. You should try and find a new hobby yourself.

I like pina coladas, and getting caught in the rain.

TallGlass

Some of the comments here would make you wonder why we bother with any of it to be honest and I am sure I am not the only on thinking that. But I would never intentionally run the risk of driving uninsured, I would hate to kill someone and for there family to suffer even more because I have no insurance and to get any compensation would take years (not that it makes up for a lost family member, but they could be providing for there family, house, food, etc.. At least if someone was killed by me, hopefully my insurance would help with providing these basic things for that family, again not that it makes a difference, everyone would rather the person still alive).

We need to evaluate how we pay insurance and tax in Ireland ASAP, it needs to be moved over to paying it on fuel ASAP, insurance is spiraling out of control not that should be any excuse not to have any.

jon1981

TallGlass wrote: »

We need to evaluate how we pay insurance and tax in Ireland ASAP, it needs to be moved over to paying it on fuel ASAP, insurance is spiraling out of control not that should be any excuse not to have any.

Interesting point, if insurance was seen as a not for profit industry there would be harsher controls on payouts and rates would tumble. Never going to happen.

TallGlass

jon1981 wrote: »

Interesting point, if insurance was seen as a not for profit industry there would be harsher controls on payouts and rates would tumble. Never going to happen.

Nothing will happen that's the problem, why try solve this problem. Put it on the long finger until it's an uncontrollable mess that takes years to figure out how to fix it and as many years worth of enquirys and tribunals. Typical Irish politician solution.

These threads will become more common as the year goes on.

Cheensbo

Did I see someone asking why there's no penalty points for non display of tax? :pac:

gustafo

Bicky bicky wrote: »

Tell your friend get a car or his old one back tax insure and have it nctd for court date could be a few weeks to few months.

Ask your friends solicitor to plead guilty and for your friend to retain his license but expect a good fine also depends on what part of the country your friend is and also on judge that day.

Sorry I've a question is there any statue of limitations on a no insurance charge(I was done with 9 offences all ran into and only done for no insurance 1000 fine but was allowed keep my licence no points)

Nearly a decade later and it still affects my insurance quote to this day.

It shouldn't still affect your insurance as its a spent conviction and you don't have to disclose it to the insurance company. most motor convictions over 7 years are spent.

eggy81

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Thought they only gave points for the worst offence, 5 in this case.

Guards really need to up their game as there's too many uninsured drivers out there.

Government needs to up their game aswell though and attempt to drive down the cost of insurance. It's utterly ridiculous how much it costs you people to get on the road IMO.

Not condoning driving without insurance by the way.

uck51js9zml2yt

He'll need to be taxed and insured to drive it out of the pound..Or get it towed out.

Also needs insurance to get it taxed.