Sentimental Seiko

TullyLoy

Hi,

The attached picture is of my Dad's old watch. He wore it for 20 odd years and gave it to be before my 18th birthday (12 years ago) so it's extremely sentimental.

It has been going strong without any bother up until last year when second hand starting double ticking which suggested it needed a new battery. I brought it to a jeweller who put a new battery in and it it suddenly wasn't working at all. The guy opened it back up and said it was missing a part - I don't understand how it was working perfectly all the years previously without that part but there you go. He sent it to several watch makers all of whom said it was missing a part and the part is no longer available - bit of a mystery if you ask me.

Anyway, I'm basically wondering are there any old school watchmakers in Ireland who could fashion a part for this or get it working without the manufacturer's original part? I don't k ow much about watchmaking but it seems like the sort of game that would have these kind of wizards within it.

I'm looking to get the thing working and get it serviced too. Can anyone recommend someone? Ideally in Dublin but I'd quite happily travel to chat to someone about it.

Thanks in advance.

Colm

TullyLoy

Seiko 7123-8310-P

I should mention also that the part they say is missing is something to do with holding the battery in.

Cheers,

Colm

Alun

Timemark, the official distributors for Seiko in Ireland have a service centre in Ballymount in Dublin.

https://store.seiko.ie/pages/service-centre

Could be worth contacting them, they're quite helpful in my experience.

As far as the part is concerned, I'm guessing it's a small battery contact spring that's missing, like one of the small brass contacts shown in this photo

http://www.millsys-watch.co.uk/ekmps/shops/millsyswatch/images/seiko-7123-8310-p-gold-effect-quartz-untested-for-project-[5]-3382-p.jpg

although it's weird that it would work up to the point the first jeweller looked at it. Maybe they broke it or lost it while attempting to replace the battery and just didn't dare to own up to their mistake.

Winterlong

This watch has a 7123 movement in it. The battery holder as it should look is below.



I would guess that it broke off when the guy was replacing the battery. Those movements generally are not easy to repair but as it is an older movement they are more possible to be repairer than their modern equivalents.

I think your best bet would be to get a donor movement. Then try a few watchmakers and see if one can either replace the part using the one from the donor movement or just swap over the movement. The latter is not too tricky.

This is a slightly more modern version of your movement, in the 7123 family. I have not checked if this movment is interchangable with your one, but you get the idea.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/SEIKO-7123-8340-G-WHITE-FACE-VINTAGE-WATCH-1981-JAPANESE-MOVEMENT-/122301512378?hash=item1c79bcfaba:g:q8IAAOSw2xRYcKyC

There is an excellent article from a guy who serviced one of these. https://thewatchbloke.co.uk/2015/06/10/seiko-7123-823b-quartz/

ANd a post here that seems similar to your issue...http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/3448-seiko-quartz-7123-7050-battery-replacement/

TullyLoy

Thanks Alun,

I'll get in touch with Timemark but I'm guessing they are the first people that this jeweler sent it to. I'll check them out anyway, thanks a mill.

Alun wrote: »

although it's weird that it would work up to the point the first jeweller looked at it. Maybe they broke it or lost it while attempting to replace the battery and just didn't dare to own up to their mistake.

This was my suspicion, it's the only thing that makes any sense really.

TullyLoy

Thanks for your help Winterlong,

Winterlong wrote: »

I would guess that it broke off when the guy was replacing the battery.

Upon closer inspection I definitely think this is the case. Check out the attached image, you can see the battery holder is clearly snapped off compared to the other picture.

I'm a technician myself so although I wouldn't be confident enough to give the watch a full service as the guy in your link did, I'd be happy to replace the part that's broken if I got a donor.

Here comes a newbie question though - would I be right in saying that that holder is also the contact for the + terminal on the battery? With that in mind, in theory would it be possible to fashion my own part out of brass(?) and put it in there? If that was a runner I'd actually really enjoy doing that as opposed to trying to find a donor that may or may not have the right part.

What do people reckon on that?

Cheers

Colm

Winterlong

TullyLoy wrote: »

Thanks for your help Winterlong,



Upon closer inspection I definitely think this is the case. Check out the attached image, you can see the battery holder is clearly snapped off compared to the other picture.

I'm a technician myself so although I wouldn't be confident enough to give the watch a full service as the guy in your link did, I'd be happy to replace the part that's broken if I got a donor.

Here comes a newbie question though - would I be right in saying that that holder is also the contact for the + terminal on the battery? With that in mind, in theory would it be possible to fashion my own part out of brass(?) and put it in there? If that was a runner I'd actually really enjoy doing that as opposed to trying to find a donor that may or may not have the right part.

What do people reckon on that?

Cheers

Colm

That part looks very simple to replace and yeah, if you can fashion a part to fit then it should work perfect. And add a bit more sentimentality to the watch!
It does go to the + connector but I would imagine the broken part is made of copper and not brass.
If you take this on then keep us posted. I love these projects!

Alun

I'm not sure of what those terminals are made of exactly but I doubt it's pure copper, that's too soft and has little spring. More likely to be plated steel, possibly brass or even gold plated given the colour.

Also from your photo it looks like the -ve contact that the rim of the battery makes contact with is severely bent out of shape too. Looks as if the first "jeweller" made a real mess of the job when trying to get the original battery out to me.

Personally I think trying to find a cheap donor watch with a broken movement and just using the contacts might be the easiest option.

TullyLoy

Winterlong wrote: »

That part looks very simple to replace and yeah, if you can fashion a part to fit then it should work perfect. And add a bit more sentimentality to the watch!
It does go to the + connector but I would imagine the broken part is made of copper and not brass.
If you take this on then keep us posted. I love these projects!

I think I'll give it a bash, sure why not! Another means of procrastination

One more question before I do - you said you reckon it's copper. The original part looks to be paler than copper which is why I guessed brass. If you have a look at the picture you posted and the one I did - the part is beside a copper coil which looks much more copper coloured. What material do you reckon I should make the part out of then?

Cheers

Winterlong

Alun wrote: »

I'm not sure of what those terminals are made of exactly but I doubt it's pure copper, that's too soft and has little spring. More likely to be plated steel, possibly brass or even gold plated given the colour.

Good point. My inter-cert chemistry is not good enough to remember how to differentiate one metal from another.
The part number is 4242-075 per the service manual...
http://www.thewatchsite.com/files/Seiko%20Technical%20Manuals/7123A.pdf

But that part is long since unavailable and the manual does not say what the material type is.

Best bet to remove the 'stub' and try this?
http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-Brass-from-Copper

Alun

Yes, copper is more red/orange in colour, whereas brass, an alloy of copper and zinc, is yellower.

From my experience in attempting to clean up corroded battery terminals in any number of electronic / electrical apparatus, when you try and clean them up, it's nearly always spring steel underneath if you try and clean them up with wet and dry sandpaper. The plating on top, either gold or nickel is there partly for reasons of better conductivity, but also to prevent corrosion although the plating will still be wrecked from chemicals leaking from dying batteries though, and once removed to clean them up they just corrode again very quickly.

TullyLoy

I picked up a new battery for it there and connected the + terminal with the "stub" of the battery holder/terminal with some copper wire - and the watch still didn't start ticking. So I fear there is some damage done to the copper coil as well.

Luckily I found a lot of three watches online with the exact same watch in the mix. So hopefully I win that bid and can get my donor.

Thanks for the help both of you! I will keep you informed.

Cheers

C

Wibbs

I suspect the "watchmaker" forced the battery out broke the contact and hit the coil. The exposed coil layout is a design feature that always has me scratching my head. And it's in nearly every single quartz movement out there, from the cheapest to the most expensive. The slightest scratch and it'll go open circuit. Daft engineering and I can't understand the reasoning. Omega's first quartz movement had a protective cover over said coil, which was all very well, but it had to be removed to swap out the battery. Doh!.

amacca

Maybe its the cynic in me but I often think things are engineered to fail (or perhaps its just a nice side bonus for some products put together with mass production cost saving measures in mind)

Don't know about watches but looking at the difference between some brands of tractors from the 60/70s and their modern day counterparts you can't help but think when you see how they were put together the ones from the 60/70s were way too good (in terms of toughness/longevity etc) when it comes to the company hoping to make money out of spare part sales or mechanics out of servicing or the company wanting you to buy the new model.......albeit that added complexity while wanted does make something inherently more likely to break down

....damper springs left exposed rather than protected in a housing, even things like colour coding of wires not done now with some brands making it much hard er for the have a go home mechanic to diagnose a fault etc.....when you can see you could put it together better yourself with not much added cost (if of course you had the tools/fabrication equipment) thats when you know its more about creating the most profitable product for the company than the best product

having said that my seiko skx007 has to be one of the best things I ever bought!

TullyLoy

amacca wrote: »

Maybe its the cynic in me but I often think things are engineered to fail (or perhaps its just a nice side bonus for some products put together with mass production cost saving measures in mind)

Don't know about watches but looking at the difference between some brands of tractors from the 60/70s and their modern day counterparts you can't help but think when you see how they were put together the ones from the 60/70s were way too good (in terms of toughness/longevity etc) when it comes to the company hoping to make money out of spare part sales or mechanics out of servicing or the company wanting you to buy the new model.......albeit that added complexity while wanted does make something inherently more likely to break down

....damper springs left exposed rather than protected in a housing, even things like colour coding of wires not done now with some brands making it much hard er for the have a go home mechanic to diagnose a fault etc.....when you can see you could put it together better yourself with not much added cost (if of course you had the tools/fabrication equipment) thats when you know its more about creating the most profitable product for the company than the best product

having said that my seiko skx007 has to be one of the best things I ever bought!

I come from an industrial design background and "designed obsolescence" is definitely a thing!!!

TullyLoy

Hi all,

I found a donor watch for pets for this. I have decided it's too important a thing for me to go messing with it and potentially breaking something. So with that in mind I'm looking for a watchmaker that might take on the job while also giving the piece a complete refurb.

Would you guys be able to recommend someone who might be reasonably priced and preferably in the greater Dublin area?

Thanks a million,

C